As many of us thought.......from today`s Daily Telegraph

[Boxbrownie]

He didn’t miss Dunlop much

[Boxbrownie]

3 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

They recently became approved, there was earlier comments on this 

I didn’t understand the relevance of the previous question.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Malc1 said:

One can still pop over to somewhere on a cheapy flight and buy a brand new petrol car and import it ( drive it ) to the UK to drive 

Kind of doubt on this point, but agree with the rest.

I think once ban get's into plate you won't be able to register ICEV - so regardless of where you get it you won't be able to register. So "sale ban" is little bit misleading. The only way around it is to get your petrol car in 2029 and drive it as long as you can.

[Spock66]

9 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

The only way around it is to get your petrol car in 2029 and drive it as long as you can.

Or 2035 for Hybrids if they have at least a 50 mile range.

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, Spock66 said:

Or 2035 for Hybrids if they have at least a 50 mile range.

If I am not mistaken then modifications are not ban either, so in hypothetical case you one can by EV and fit petrol engine in it. Sounds far fetched, but I have seen LPG Tesla - that is legit, there are LPG generators which works like range extenders.

[Spock66]

2 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

If I am not mistaken then modifications are not ban either, so in hypothetical case you one can by EV and fit petrol engine in it. Sounds far fetched, but I have seen LPG Tesla - that is legit, there are LPG generators which works like range extenders.

The government can kill off ICE cars whenever they want, just raise Road Tax and Fuel Tax to unacceptable levels, no need for new laws or outright bans.

[Linas.P]

6 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

The government can kill off ICE cars whenever they want, just raise Road Tax and Fuel Tax to unacceptable levels, no need for new laws or outright bans.

Yes, but they pretty much running into the same issue either way... and as it seems they already looking to address it in 2025. That is - they can kill off ICEVs anytime they want, but that kills off revenues which are not insignificant (~£40bn), so they have to tax BEVs as soon of actual number of ICEVs fall. 

[Malc1]

38 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I think once ban get's into plate you won't be able to register ICEV - so regardless of where you get it you won't be able to register. So "sale ban" is little bit misleading.

might this then mean a total ban on imported used cars ???  ...  I could buy my brand new car in say ?????  Or my partner could .  then I buy it from her in that country of origin as a used car .....  as with any other car, be it a classic maybe  or just as a secondhand car ......  and personally import it into the UK  !!

Methinks the Treasury or whomsoever would shy against banning used car imports for private consumption ................

but hey, by that time, when  2035 arrives I'll be 85 and still driving my Mk3 Ls400 with hopefully another 130k miles on the clock .......  wot'da'yu'know 😇

Malc

[Rabbers]

4 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Not quite so Renato, philosophers as far back as Socrates, "He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have" express similar thoughts. Today's society is driven by being discontented, sophisticated marketeers exist to make you discontent with what you have. And let's not confuse this with ambition, that's a whole different notion. 😎

Phil, my thoughts on the subject were not as deep and as wide-ranging as yours, and certainly did not extend to the ability of sophisticated marketing people to create discontent, but, were you to judge it fruitful, as it seems you might, I’d  suggest you research the possible influence of Socratic thought on post-WW2 American popular rabbinical didactics.  Not that I’d have much to contribute to that either.

[royoftherovers]

7 minutes ago, Rabbers said:

Phil, my thoughts on the subject were not as deep and as wide-ranging as yours, and certainly did not extend to the ability of sophisticated marketing people to create discontent, but, were you to judge it fruitful, as it seems you might, I’d  suggest you research the possible influence of Socratic thought on post-WW2 American popular rabbinical didactics.  Not that I’d have much to contribute to that either.

Many thanks Renato. Your Posting reminded me of the following,

>>>> In ancient Greece (469 - 399 BC), Socrates was widely
>>>> lauded for his wisdom. One day the great philosopher
>>>> came upon an acquaintance, who ran up to him excitedly
>>>> and said, "Socrates, do you know what I just heard about
>>>> one of your students...?"
>>>>
>>>> "Wait a moment," Socrates replied. "Before you tell
>>>> me, I'd like you to pass a little test. It's called
>>>> the Test of Three."
>>>>
>>>> "Test of Three?"
>>>>
>>>> "That's correct," Socrates continued.
>>>>
>>>> "Before you talk to me about my student let's take a
>>>> moment to test what you're going to say. The first
>>>> test is Truth. Have you made absolutely sure that what
>>>> you are about to tell me is true?"
>>>>
>>>> "No," the man replied, "actually I just heard about it."
>>>>
>>>> "All right," said Socrates. "So you don't really know
>>>> if it's true or not. Now let's try the second test,
>>>> the test of Goodness. Is what you are about to tell me
>>>> about my student something good?"
>>>>
>>>> "No, on the contrary..."
>>>>
>>>> "So," Socrates continued, "you want to tell me
>>>> something bad about him even though you're not certain
>>>> it's true?"
>>>>
>>>> The man shrugged, a little embarrassed.
>>>> Socrates continued, "You may still pass though because
>>>> there is a third test - the filter of Usefulness. Is what you
>>>> want to tell me about my student going to be useful to me?"
>>>>
>>>> "No, not really..."
>>>>
>>>> "Well," concluded Socrates, "if what you want to tell
>>>> me is neither True nor Good nor even Useful, why tell
>>>> it to me at all?"
>>>>
>>>> The man was defeated and ashamed and said no more.
>>>>
>>>> This is the reason Socrates was a great philosopher
>>>> and held in such high esteem.
>>>>
>>>> It also explains why Socrates never found out that
>>>> Plato was banging his wife.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Malc1 said:

might this then mean a total ban on imported used cars ???  ...  I could buy my brand new car in say ?????  Or my partner could .  then I buy it from her in that country of origin as a used car .....  as with any other car, be it a classic maybe  or just as a secondhand car ......  and personally import it into the UK  !!

Methinks the Treasury or whomsoever would shy against banning used car imports for private consumption ................

but hey, by that time, when  2035 arrives I'll be 85 and still driving my Mk3 Ls400 with hopefully another 130k miles on the clock .......  wot'da'yu'know 😇

Malc

I am sure classic cars over certain age will be exempt... That said even if they allow private import of used cars it most likely going to make no economical sense - basically one will have to pay full import duties, so maybe viable for importing 20 years old cars, but I think my comment was more aimed at just buying brand new ICEV in another country (say Australia or Japan) and then import it into UK. Currently that would be 30% charge on top of purchasing price. 

[Phil xxkr]

2 hours ago, Rabbers said:

Phil, my thoughts on the subject were not as deep and as wide-ranging as yours, and certainly did not extend to the ability of sophisticated marketing people to create discontent, but, were you to judge it fruitful, as it seems you might, I’d  suggest you research the possible influence of Socratic thought on post-WW2 American popular rabbinical didactics.  Not that I’d have much to contribute to that either.

Didactics? Do you mean dialectics? This Talmud method is well used in law viz: The essential characteristic is that it leads to a clear comprehension of the subject under discussion by penetrating into its essence and by adopting clear distinctions and a strict differentiation of the concepts. By this method a sentence or maxim is carefully studied, the various concepts which it includes are exactly determined, and all the possible consequences to be deduced from it are carefully investigated. The sentence is then examined in its relation to some other sentence harmonizing with it, the investigation being directed toward determining whether the agreement appearing on a superficial contemplation of them continues to be manifest when all the possible consequences and deductions are drawn from each one of them; for if contradictory deductions follow from the two apparently agreeing sentences, then this apparent agreement is not an agreement in fact. Again, if two sentences apparently contradict each other, the  method seeks to ascertain whether this seeming contradiction may not be removed by a more careful definition and a more exact limitation of the concepts connected with the respective sentences. If two contiguous sentences or maxims apparently imply the same thing, this method endeavors to decide whether the second sentence is really a repetition of the first and could have been omitted, or whether by a more subtle differentiation of the concepts a different shade of meaning may be discovered between them. Similarly if a regulation is mentioned in connection with two parallel cases, this method determines whether it might not have been concluded from the similarity of the cases itself that the regulation applying to the one applied to the other also, and why it was necessary to repeat explicitly the same regulation.

Does this help 😎

[Rabbers]

No, if I meant dialectics I wouldn’t have said didactics. But thanks for the thought.

[Mr Vlad]

Ooooh that Dunlop advert. Carol Hawkins was such a stunning beauty.

[ALAW]

12 hours ago, LenT said:

For younger members, the comb-over hero was Gregor Fisher who later achieved fame as Rab C Nesbit.
 

 

From Govan i believe. Mary Doll

[ALAW]

It had to come didn't it taxing EV. The budget in April will see a rise in Fuel Duty. So more expensive to motorists there are a lot of us. Something I've been saying for a number of years now that was mentioned in the article is road pricing. There is no doubt this will come in just a matter of when. I think the Chinese question has to be taken very seriously a few differences of opinion on here on this. However I think the government are concerned and attempting to do something.

Question :-What price per mile do you think will be introduced for road charging.

[LenT]

38 minutes ago, ALAW said:

From Govan i believe. Mary Doll

And to correct my earlier typo, his character was actually Rab. C. Nesbitt.  👍

[First_Lexus]

I had a UX300e as a courtesy car today. Very nice, delivered to me fully charged so only 165 miles of range showing. I did about 15 miles, all low speed (below 50mph) - with lights on, wipers on, heating on, radio on etc. - and when I gave it back it was showing 125 miles remaining.

For me it’s very simple. If that car had a realistic 250 mile range, at motorway speeds (actually if ANY reasonably priced EV did) then I’d consider making the switch. As it stands, my requirement for a regular motorway commute of c200 miles weekly and not wanting to charge midway, means I’ll stay with petrol/hybrid. The new Renault Megane is a good example. Using the Renault website calculator I could only expect about 150 miles range maximum at motorway speeds (70mph) when the WLTP shows c300 miles. It’s the motorway mileage that kills it for me.

The technology will improve though. I’m sure in 3-5 years that will be a reality without having to spend £60-£75k plus on a Tesla.

[Bluemarlin]

With the price of electricity these days, I think they should be like mobile phones. Take out a contract with an electricity provider and get a free car 🙂

[wharfhouse]

30 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

I had a UX300e as a courtesy car today. Very nice, delivered to me fully charged so only 165 miles of range showing. I did about 15 miles, all low speed (below 50mph) - with lights on, wipers on, heating on, radio on etc. - and when I gave it back it was showing 125 miles remaining.

For me it’s very simple. If that car had a realistic 250 mile range, at motorway speeds (actually if ANY reasonably priced EV did) then I’d consider making the switch. As it stands, my requirement for a regular motorway commute of c200 miles weekly and not wanting to charge midway, means I’ll stay with petrol/hybrid. The new Renault Megane is a good example. Using the Renault website calculator I could only expect about 150 miles range maximum at motorway speeds (70mph) when the WLTP shows c300 miles. It’s the motorway mileage that kills it for me.

The technology will improve though. I’m sure in 3-5 years that will be a reality without having to spend £60-£75k plus on a Tesla.

Yes I'm in the same position as you. Will often drive a few hundred motorway miles non-stop then stay somewhere overnight without any charging points and a few hundred miles the next day. Just can't make EVs work at the moment regardless of any like or dislike of the tech and so have decided to keep running my IS 300h for the foreseeable future as don't see much sense in making a big investment in a new car (or even a few year old used one) at the moment whilst everything is so up in the air. 

I've also just been reading / watching some reviews of the new MG4 (EV) - if I was forced to go EV now I would seriously consider the long range / Trophy version of that car. Looks good (not another SUV...), decent spec, appears to drive well, 7 year warranty, will do a genuine 200 miles at motorway speeds (still not really enough but getting closer to what I need) and at a price that makes real financial sense compared to most of the offerings out there, especially given that the EV tech for all manufacturers is going to keep evolving rapidly. Yes, it's Chinese of course, but then I think the cat's out of the bag on that now - the Chinese car manufacturers will do what the Japanese and then Koreans did and become world leaders in the new dawn EV market where so many of the traditional manufacturers USPs have been levelled with the last bastion left just being the "badge" value.

[First_Lexus]

6 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

I've also just been reading / watching some reviews of the new MG4 (EV) - if I was forced to go EV now I would seriously consider the long range / Trophy version of that car. Looks good (not another SUV...), decent spec, 7 year warranty, will do a genuine 200 miles at motorway speeds (still not really enough but getting closer to what I need) and at a price that makes real financial sense compared to most of the offerings out there, especially given that the EV tech for all manufacturers is going to keep evolving rapidly.

Agree, the MG4 looks good. But the range at motorway speeds shows as 205 miles…looks as though their calculator assumes Summer temperatures (the disclaimer specifically mentions temperature variations).

In the Winter it would still be below what I need is my reading, as with most other options out there right now.

[wharfhouse]

2 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

Agree, the MG4 looks good. But the range at motorway speeds shows as 205 miles…looks as though their calculator assumes Summer temperatures (the disclaimer specifically mentions temperature variations).

In the Winter it would still be below what I need is my reading, as with most other options out there right now.

Yes agreed and that's one of the big EV issues for my lifestyle - the difference in actual miles between ideal (quoted in specs) and motorway use (significantly lower) and then adding in temperature (high or low) and actually using the likes of heating or air con to be comfortable...! - but it's one of the best out there at the moment - still not enough for me to be comfortable with but for the price they are moving in the right direction. I'll certainly not be buying right now (or for a good few years yet) but will be keeping a watching brief as they say... I think it's going to be a manufacturer to watch in the future. 

[Spacewagon52]

48 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

Agree, the MG4 looks good. But the range at motorway speeds shows as 205 miles…looks as though their calculator assumes Summer temperatures (the disclaimer specifically mentions temperature variations).

In the Winter it would still be below what I need is my reading, as with most other options out there right now.

Interesting car the MG4. I have been following the MGEV Owners site. There are issues with these cars. Fine if they can be fixed (good 7 year warranty) but if not ............... Lead times for parts is also an issue. Their reliability would be my main concern along with longevity. I read about a design error on the MG5, where mud accumulates on top of the spring/shock absorber. Owners are making their own covers to prevent future rust issues. I am sure these issues will be addressed by MG (China). It reminds me of early Toyota cars. "Don';t buy one! Parts are extortionate!" What people did not work out was that if things don't go wrong .... you don't need parets!

I can see the MG brand improving over time. 

[wharfhouse]

10 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Interesting car the MG4. I have been following the MGEV Owners site. There are issues with these cars. Fine if they can be fixed (good 7 year warranty) but if not ............... Lead times for parts is also an issue. Their reliability would be my main concern along with longevity. I read about a design error on the MG5, where mud accumulates on top of the spring/shock absorber. Owners are making their own covers to prevent future rust issues. I am sure these issues will be addressed by MG (China). It reminds me of early Toyota cars. "Don';t buy one! Parts are extortionate!" What people did not work out was that if things don't go wrong .... you don't need parets!

I can see the MG brand improving over time. 

Agreed and reliability may remain a USP for some brands but with EV as there's less to go wrong then it will not be so strong. I also suspect there will be more off the shelf components used in EVs over time rather than so much bespoke design leading to higher reliability and easier repair. At the moment I certainly wouldn't plan on keeping any EV more than a few years (unlike an ICE/hybrid where a 20 year old car can still feel reasonably modern) as the tech will keep evolving quickly. Also with the tech developing quickly I don't think this generation of EVs will have a good spare parts supply chain in the future (OEM or non-OEM) ending up with owners having to scrap them earlier if parts aren't available. 

[J Henderson]

Whatever next?

Mercedes performance upgrade subscription

😄