As many of us thought.......from today`s Daily Telegraph

[royoftherovers]

Electric car owners have been duped by big government

Gone are the lovely incentives. Now we are being coerced into going electric, and face huge taxes while doing so

ROSS CLARK18 November 2022 • 12:21pm

 

So much for electric cars being cheaper to run than petrol or diesel ones. As owners are about to discover, following Jeremy Hunt’s announcement that electric cars will be subject to vehicle excise duty from 2025, the main reason for their apparently low running costs is that these vehicles are excused from the hefty taxes levied on petrol and diesel models. Once electric cars are brought into the realm of vehicle excise duty a different picture will start to emerge. 

And it won’t just be vehicle excise duty. There is no way that Hunt is going to sit back and watch as £26 billion worth of fuel duty disappears as people are forced to switch to electric vehicles – he is going to find a way of making that up, too, most likely through road pricing. The favourable tax position enjoyed by electric vehicles will come to be seen as nothing more than a limited time, introductory special offer. Just as with diesel cars, people who were encouraged to buy them through government incentives have been conned. 

The Autumn Statement marked the end of those enticements – and the beginning of coercion. It is now clear: there is no way, on current technology, that electric cars are going to sell themselves to the masses. You can point to data from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) showing that sales of electric cars in October were 23.4 per cent up on the same month in 2021, yet their market share has stalled at around 15 per cent (it actually fell a little from 15.2 per cent to 14.8 per cent between last October and this). 

Electric cars are going down a treat with well-off, urban-based drivers who want to show off their eco credentials. They make good second cars for driving around cities, especially with the proliferation of low emission zones. Yet just like Grant Shapps, who admitted a couple years ago to owning a 25 mpg Chrysler Crossfire as well as a Tesla, such drivers will often keep petrol or diesel cars for longer journeys. 

For the rest of us, electric vehicles remain very expensive to buy and are only cheaper to run if you ignore the fact that 60 per cent of the cost of road fuel is tax. They don’t travel enough on a charge, they take too long to recharge and rely on a very sporadic network of chargers. If, like 8 million British households, you don’t have off-street parking in reach of your own electricity socket, they offer only hassle. That will remain the case until someone invents a Battery which costs no more to build than a petrol engine, can travel 500 miles between charges and takes five minutes to recharge. 

But this doesn’t seem to enter the Government’s calculations. It is so determined to reach its net zero target that it is going to force electric vehicles on us no matter what. Initially it offered a carrot, but now Hunt has produced a large stick. From 2035 electric cars will be the only ones allowed to be sold – and by then they will be taxed just like any other car. We are being driven speedily to an age in which motoring returns to being the preserve of the wealthy. 

[Boxbrownie]

Again and again and again, where do they get this thing about EV being cheaper to run? 
 

FFS they cost an arm and a leg to buy so where did the cheap motoring bit come from? 🤣
 

They have been for sure, but it shouldn’t be the reason for buying an EV, if you did then you are as much a tw@t as that journalist, everyone knew eventually the “free” VED would come to an end I despair at the reactions to this news about the budget statement.

 

Mind you I don’t mind as our EV now costs the princely sum of ha’penny a day to tax 👍

[First_Lexus]

I always quite liked the Chrysler Crossfire. A bit of an underdog, old Mercedes underpinnings but with American styling. Good value too.

That was the key take away from the article, right?

😇

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

From 2035 electric cars will be the only ones allowed to be sold

I know that's what they're aiming for but it's completely unrealistic.

Apart from infrastructure and generation ,problems we aren't the only country in the world who are aspiring to get rid of fossil fuelled cars in this accelerated timescale so we'll all be competing for the same materials at the same time. We just won't be able to get the stuff like Lithium out of the ground fast enough.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Boxbrownie said:

Again and again and again, where do they get this thing about EV being cheaper to run? 
 

FFS they cost an arm and a leg to buy so where did the cheap motoring bit come from? 🤣
 

They have been for sure, but it shouldn’t be the reason for buying an EV, if you did then you are as much a tw@t as that journalist, everyone knew eventually the “free” VED would come to an end I despair at the reactions to this news about the budget statement.

 

Mind you I don’t mind as our EV now costs the princely sum of ha’penny a day to tax 👍

They are cheaper to run as a fact. Company car owners dont pay tax on them so they become massively cheaper to run even taking into account the higher electricity costs.

I run it through a business so had my profits reduced by £46k (price of the car when new) so effectively saved me >£10k in corporation tax alone. When was the last time an ICE could do that. 

The VED will still be cheaper than anything with a combustion engine so its nothing to worry about.

 

[ColinBarber]

23 minutes ago, rayaans said:

The VED will still be cheaper than anything with a combustion engine so its nothing to worry about.

We don't know what the law will be in 2025 but based on the information outlined by the government this week, EVs will move to standard rate VED for year 2 onwards, so will pay exactly the same as combustion engine vehicles. It is only the first year that is based on emissions where they will pay less.

Not really an issue as by that time a small financial incentive isn't going to be needed in persuading people to move to EVs - they are already moving that way for other reasons.

The only thing that was a surprise was that existing EVs will also have to start paying VED from 2025. Normally VED rules aren't changed on existing cars just new ones purchased but this change is retrospective in that regard.

 

Luxury tax (for list price of £40k and above) will also apply, but in this case it is only for new purchases from 2025 onward.

[Spock66]

The current Government policy is to raise taxes, if it was not Vehicle Excise Duty it would be something else going up.

I don't have an electric car, but even if I did I would think at £165 per year that's a fair cop.

[PaulWhitt20]

How will this affect the £10 I currently pay for car tax on my 2.5l petrol engine with a small Battery and motor on my “alternative fuel” car?

 

[steve2006]

This on top of Tesco’s withdrawal of free electric car charging last week…where will it all end?
8 million with no off street charging availability…I’m now waiting for the first no win no fee claim for someone tripping over the cable laid across the pavement.

”Been injured by an electric car charging cable that wasn’t your fault? You may be entitled to compensation. Call our 24 hour claims line now”

[Boxbrownie]

15 hours ago, rayaans said:

They are cheaper to run as a fact. Company car owners dont pay tax on them so they become massively cheaper to run even taking into account the higher electricity costs.

I run it through a business so had my profits reduced by £46k (price of the car when new) so effectively saved me >£10k in corporation tax alone. When was the last time an ICE could do that. 

The VED will still be cheaper than anything with a combustion engine so its nothing to worry about.

 

I didn’t say they are not cheaper to run, just it shouldn’t be expected they will always be cheaper. This type of article always spouts “EVs becoming as expensive to run or more than ICE” what they fail to understand is a lot of EV drivers bought the cars because they liked them rather than just to save money, as for the company tax regimes regarding vehicles the less said the better. 🏴‍☠️

[royoftherovers]

5 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

I didn’t say they are not cheaper to run, just it shouldn’t be expected they will always be cheaper. This type of article always spouts “EVs becoming as expensive to run or more than ICE” what they fail to understand is a lot of EV drivers bought the cars because they liked them rather than just to save money, as for the company tax regimes regarding vehicles the less said the better. 🏴‍☠️

Where is the evidence to justify the statement "a lot of EV drivers bought the cars because they liked them" BB ?

[steve2006]

Just ordered mine 😀

[Boxbrownie]

16 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Where is the evidence to justify the statement "a lot of EV drivers bought the cars because they liked them" BB ?

All over the EV forums RotR

[First_Lexus]

Couple of articles that members may find interesting.

https://www.ey.com/en_gl/automotive-transportation/mobility-consumer-index-wave-3

https://www.ey.com/en_gl/news/2021/07/four-in-ten-consumers-plan-electric-vehicle-purchase-as-market-moves-into-high-gear

I’ve noted previously that I now know a few people with EVs and not one of them has stated ‘driving experience’ or similar as the reason for their choice. Members on EV forums are clearly different to my personal experience.

[wharfhouse]

15 hours ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

How will this affect the £10 I currently pay for car tax on my 2.5l petrol engine with a small battery and motor on my “alternative fuel” car?

 

Let's just keep quiet on that and hope that the powers that be simply keep on taxing old non-EV cars as they do now...! 

[dutchie01]

Nobody with a right brain did believe EVs would be taxless until eternity no? Strange and biased article in my opinion. Also not taking into account the rapid development within the EV industry. Batteries will become cheaper and better, lighter more capacity faster charging,recycling. Cheaper cars are on the way, for example VW just announced an ID2 and ID1, Toyota is on a roll etc.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Boxbrownie said:

All over the EV forums RotR

You could have fooled me. Anyway we must simply agree to differ.

[Boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, First_Lexus said:

Couple of articles that members may find interesting.

https://www.ey.com/en_gl/automotive-transportation/mobility-consumer-index-wave-3

https://www.ey.com/en_gl/news/2021/07/four-in-ten-consumers-plan-electric-vehicle-purchase-as-market-moves-into-high-gear

I’ve noted previously that I now know a few people with EVs and not one of them has stated ‘driving experience’ or similar as the reason for their choice. Members on EV forums are clearly different to my personal experience.

Maybe they are, are your people business users primarily?

[Malc1]

17 hours ago, rayaans said:

The VED will still be cheaper than anything with a combustion engine so its nothing to worry about.

today, tomorrow, next week even BUT in the longer term do you really think so  ?

Roads have to be maintained and built and it's vehicles that have to pay for the " damage " caused ................. EV VED will be, and is a captive to the chancellor and I have no doubts whatsoever that EVs will pay a fair share ( or more  .  hehehehehe ) of those costs

It's just about  " when "

Malc

[Boxbrownie]

In another forum….

”Whilst this weeks debates seem to have been around introducing VED to BEVs in 2025, the OBR has included a 12p/litre increase in fuel duty next April in its budget calculations. 

Sunak / Hunt saying no decisions made but the 5p / litre cut expires at end of March and OBR have assumed a further 7p rise 

So even if BEVs become a tiny bit more expensive in 2.5years time, ICEs will be a lot more expensive to run in very short time.”

[Illogan]

I am amazed that anyone could possibly believe that electric vehicles would remain untaxed, for the simple reason that the previous year's tax revenue from 'Road Tax' (VED) was in excess of £7Bn.  As soon as some vehicle owners are allowed to pay less VED, then there's going to be a shortfall in optimum revenue collection.

The UK is fairly desperate for revenue  - (and will be for some years to come), so the likelihood of dishing out 'free passes to car ownership' is less likely to happen than Elon Musk inviting me on to his Board of Directors.

VED rates by size/type of vehicle will always change, (normally increase at least by the rate of inflation), and, to quote Benjamin Franklin ".....in this world, nothing is certain except death and taxes"

[Malc1]

2 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

So even if BEVs become a tiny bit more expensive in 2.5years time, ICEs will be a lot more expensive to run in very short time.”

even if  ?      " tiny bit  "   in a very short time  ?

Not at all sure these imponderables with nice to expect Outcomes will turn to reality 

Chancellor has a big big black hole to fill-up and all vehicles are prone to being clobbered .  there'll be " no nice " way to achieve this ...........  tax tax tax on all and sundry ....  it's inconceivable that those that can afford new cars will escape with anything other than a " heavy fine " equivalent for having their cars, any cars .... .  especially company owners who are being ultra squeezed ........  take the reduction in Divi Payment tax advantages upcoming ..... clobber the rich, even all those who aren't quite so poor makes sense ........  BUT if one can blatantly spend on a new car, well, a deserving cause / case to be clobbered for sure 

 

I'll just rev up and race around in my V8 4 ltr limo for a while yet thank you .  yes a 15p petrol tax increase next spring won't make one jot of difference to my budgets .  coz I'm not going for broke buying a new EV  ....  I'll be the best part of £40/ 60 / 80 .......  100k in pocket maybe 🤣

 

Malc

[Boxbrownie]

2 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

even if  ?      " tiny bit  "   in a very short time  ?

Not at all sure these imponderables with nice to expect Outcomes will turn to reality 

Chancellor has a big big black hole to fill-up and all vehicles are prone to being clobbered .  there'll be " no nice " way to achieve this ...........  tax tax tax on all and sundry ....  it's inconceivable that those that can afford new cars will escape with anything other than a " heavy fine " equivalent for having their cars, any cars .... .  especially company owners who are being ultra squeezed ........  take the reduction in Divi Payment tax advantages upcoming ..... clobber the rich, even all those who aren't quite so poor makes sense ........  BUT if one can blatantly spend on a new car, well, a deserving cause / case to be clobbered for sure 

 

I'll just rev up and race around in my V8 4 ltr limo for a while yet thank you .  yes a 15p petrol tax increase next spring won't make one jot of difference to my budgets .  coz I'm not going for broke buying a new EV  ....  I'll be the best part of £40/ 60 / 80 .......  100k in pocket maybe 🤣

 

Malc

I wish I knew where your little utopia was Malc 🤣

[Malc1]

Utopia is usually being quite satisfied with all one has in life ............. and it's in Kent right now, overlooking the water at Queenborough Town Quay 😇

Malc

[NemesisUK]

10 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Utopia is usually being quite satisfied with all one has in life

👍

“happiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have” (Rabbi Hyman Schachtel (1954))