Gs450h (3rd gen) random powercut while driving, now dead

[zeczec]

Hi. I'm stuck broken down and what happened was bizarre. I started my car after a gym session and noticed my reaction Battery down to the last bar, which was unusual, but I thought nothing of it. A few miles later, the traction Battery reaches more than 50% charge.

 

However, a few miles later, as I'm driving, the entertainment screen starts to flicker, as do my headlights, and a few seconds later, my power steering cuts, then my engine dies as does the car. Can't even open the boot (had to get in using manual key). I thought maybe it's my 12v Battery but that was recently replaced with a brand new yuasa one. And now I'm stuck here in the cold. Car is dead. But what's unusual is the door lights work, as does the doors open symbol. Interior lights work too. When I flash my full beam, the blue symbol lights up but in reality no light is emitted from headlamps.

Any ideas? In the past when I would drain my 12v due to listening to radio on accessory mode, all I would have to do is leave the car off and after about 5 mins the traction Battery would have topped up the 12v, and Id be able to start the car. But this time it's not happening.

[steve2006]

Given the complexity of hybrid vehicles and the time of day I would suggest calling your breakdown service or phone a friend who has cover as a passenger and get the car either taken home or the dealership.

One thing you could try is to remove the 12 volt Battery negative lead for a short while, reconnect it and hope it is just a system reset problem.

[Herbie]

2 hours ago, zeczec said:

In the past when I would drain my 12v due to listening to radio on accessory mode, all I would have to do is leave the car off and after about 5 mins the traction battery would have topped up the 12v, and Id be able to start the car.

It doesn't work like that.

Without a 12V supply there's no access to the hybrid system and traction Battery. It's just the 12V Battery recovering enough to provide enough power to start the hybrid system.

Like Steve, I'd say the most pressing thing is to get the car recovered and get yourself home safe and sound. Tomorrow, either read the OBD codes yourself and let us know what they are, or get it to a garage or dealer to be dealt with.

[zeczec]

Okay so the good news is I've had it towed home. The bad news is/was that I had locked each door manually shut, thinking I could just get in using the physical key at the driver door. But, it doesn't unlock. Does anyone know if that locking mechanism only works if the Battery and electrics are in order? I had to have it towed on skates as I couldn't put the transmission on neutral and disable the parking brake.

[Herbie]

6 hours ago, zeczec said:

But, it doesn't unlock.

It should, but the problem is that it hardly ever gets used so it needs a good deal of force to turn the key. Some people have even resorted to using a pair of pliers to get extra leverage and/or squirt a bit of release oil in.

 

[zeczec]

24 minutes ago, Herbie said:

It should, but the problem is that it hardly ever gets used so it needs a good deal of force to turn the key. Some people have even resorted to using a pair of pliers to get extra leverage and/or squirt a bit of release oil in.

 

It does turn just fine both ways about 70 degrees .. not quite 90. If in your knowledge it takes a 90 degree turn I could try pliers to turn the last 20 or so degrees.. hmmm 🤔

[Herbie]

2 hours ago, zeczec said:

It does turn just fine both ways about 70 degrees .. not quite 90. If in your knowledge it takes a 90 degree turn I could try pliers to turn the last 20 or so degrees.. hmmm 🤔

I think it does take 90 degrees - but you do it at your own risk in case I'm wrong 🙂

[zeczec]

3 hours ago, Herbie said:

I think it does take 90 degrees - but you do it at your own risk in case I'm wrong 🙂

Okay so I consulted a friend who has the exact same car as me (he loved mine so much he got one himself 😁), and he said that the manual lock at the driver door only works when you have Battery power. He found this out the hard way when he left his lights on overnight. When RAC jumped his Battery, only then he could get in.

I trickle charged my 12v Battery overnight and installed it, and .... nothing. The problem persists - I can't get in to my car. Of note is, that not even the small interior light in the boot works. But if I peak at my dashboard - I can see that the door open light is lit. And when I was last in my cabin after breakdown, the interior lights would work too. But if I flashed my fullbeams, the blue full beam symbol would flash, but not the fullbeam headlights in reality. So it's really bizarre - some electrics are working, and some aren't. With my Battery being as new as it is, and me having trickle charged it to full, I no longer think that's the problem personally.

So this is where I'm stuck 😕

[HensTeeth]

From your description, nothing that needs the hybrid system is online, only 12V electrics and not too many of those. I'd check fuses from the 12V Battery just to make sure everything which should have 12V has 12V. 

If that doesn't get you anywhere, the bit that's bothering me is that you said your hybrid Battery was unexpectedly very low. That could mean there's something up with the HV system - either inverter or Battery, which unless you have skills in that area is going to need specialist attention. Richard at Hybrid Battery Solutions used to frequent this forum - might be worth PM-ing or calling him. Failing that, I think I'd be finding a local hybrid specialist after that. I assume it's now out of any 15 year Battery warranty courtesy of the Hybrid Health Check at Lexus/Toyota?

Fingers crossed for a nice simple solution

[zeczec]

1 hour ago, HensTeeth said:

From your description, nothing that needs the hybrid system is online, only 12V electrics and not too many of those. I'd check fuses from the 12V battery just to make sure everything which should have 12V has 12V. 

If that doesn't get you anywhere, the bit that's bothering me is that you said your hybrid battery was unexpectedly very low. That could mean there's something up with the HV system - either inverter or battery, which unless you have skills in that area is going to need specialist attention. Richard at Hybrid Battery Solutions used to frequent this forum - might be worth PM-ing or calling him. Failing that, I think I'd be finding a local hybrid specialist after that. I assume it's now out of any 15 year battery warranty courtesy of the Hybrid Health Check at Lexus/Toyota?

Fingers crossed for a nice simple solution

Okay I'll check that out. Actually this hybrid Battery is almost new as the old one failed a health check while it was under warranty and so this new one was put in my Lexus about 3 years, 20,000 miles ago. There are about 3 or 4 fuses on the batter terminals, and seeing as that's all I have access to at this stage, I'll check those within a day and report back!

Thanks for your reply.

[Herbie]

5 hours ago, zeczec said:

and he said that the manual lock at the driver door only works when you have battery power.

That would completely and utterly defeat the whole purpose of a manual lock, so I'm sure that cannot be right.

[zeczec]

11 hours ago, Herbie said:

That would completely and utterly defeat the whole purpose of a manual lock, so I'm sure that cannot be right.

I hear you and agree. I will be using wd-40 and trying over a day or two.

[Mihanicos]

Check the grounds and the 12v lines to the various affected circuits.

You need a detailed wiring diagram showing clearly all circuits and the relevant connectors as well as their location.

Alldata is excellent, very clear, accurate and very easy to read and follow.

The 12v Battery is charged from the hybrid Battery through the inverter. 

A good hybrid Battery fully charged should be able to pull the car about 1 km on a flat level road.

Any Battery that charges quickly and discharges quickly is a sign that has deteriorated or not charged fully due electrical resistance developed accross the connections of the modules or anywhere else in the circuit.

Chris.

[KayCee]

 

Umar

Surely If the traction Battery is only 3 years old it should be still under warranty and if serviced by Lexus they should replace it.

 

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, KayCee said:

 

Umar

Surely If the traction battery is only 3 years old it should be still under warranty and if serviced by Lexus they should replace it.

 

Lexus spares come with a 12 month warranty.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

Lexus spares come with a 12 month warranty.

Beat me to that CB.🤣👍

[zeczec]

Found the culprit. The main 150A fuse is blown (see pic). I asked my mechanic friend about it, and I confessed to him.... the 12V Battery is a generic Battery. There was some discussion on a thread on this forum about what 12V batteries we can use as the OEM Battery costs around £300. I can now say that it is £300 for a reason. A 12V Battery on a hybrid is unlike a 12V Battery on any other car, even if the specs match.

So now I have to secure a new fuse, get a proper Battery (£300 sadly), and sell this Battery which is barely 6 months old and has a 5 year warranty.

[Sherra]

Umar so what actually caused the fuse to blow?

[zeczec]

3 minutes ago, Sherra said:

Umar so what actually caused the fuse to blow?

Can't tell for sure, but my mechanic friend reckons it's most likely the non-standard 12V Battery. It must have sent out power too intensely.

[Sami Tilander]

You still need to find out the culprit... Batteries do not "sent out power too intensely", but there is a short-circuit somewhere. If you don't find that, it will happen again even with standard 12V Battery...

If the main fuse is blown, the short-circuit must be in the wires leading from Battery to the other fuse boxes. That narrows down the search a bit.

One thing bothers me: if your main fuse is blown, how the interior lights can work?

BR.Sami

 

[KayCee]

Umar

I am not saying that it is this that as happened, but there is a procedure for removing our batteries

To remove Battery you must remove negative first then positive last

this is where it can blow that fuse and if the radio is on can blow that,

Install

Positive first Negative Last

I have doubt that its the wrong Battery 12v is 12volt

i may be wrong as i am in my 70s i do get things wrong now and then

[johnatg]

16 hours ago, zeczec said:

Can't tell for sure, but my mechanic friend reckons it's most likely the non-standard 12V battery. It must have sent out power too intensely.

ROTFL! That belongs in the Quora topic - "What is the stupidist thing a mechanic has said about your car"

There's nothing special about GS batteries except that they are a bit of an odd size and they have a temperature sensor (stuck on the outside, so not fundamental). Any 12v Battery which fits will do.

You have a short somewhere. Probably intermittent and due to chafed cables. Or a faulty electrical component with an internal short.

[johnatg]

Apologies. I know it's not a laughing matter for you. But really........

2 hours ago, KayCee said:

 

i may be wrong as i am in my 70s i do get things wrong now and then

I often think that it's only we septuagenarians who actually understand how the world works!

[royoftherovers]

8 minutes ago, johnatg said:

Apologies. I know it's not a laughing matter for you. But really........

I often think that it's only we septuagenarians who actually understand how the world works!

I`m with you john in so far as I thought I knew how the World worked,but now I`ve forgotten !

This incline towards Octogenarianship gets steeper daily.

 

ROTFL means what John?

[royoftherovers]

typo