es300

[e-yes]

21 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Or is the 7 series a cheaper version of the Rolls?

🙂 if one values value ... definitely.

With Lexus, I would get both value and impeccable quality (I hope that is still the case* )

If I have the money for a proper luxobarge... I am putting that money towards an LS500h (there is one very recent low mileage specimen available at the budget price of £58,000 at Lexus Approved Used)

And about that *, noticed recently that Lexus ES Premium Pack is now pretty much the same money as an Audi A6 optioned out to very similar spec. When last I was shopping that spec was £52k for A6 but £39k for ES. The Audi dealer worked some finance magic and the final order value was around £43k but I didn't take it because I didn't want another rattle box.

--E

[e-yes]

20 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

They look rather different, but if you think so: OK.

So far I have not seen a glorified version of the Toyota Crown, a friend of mine had in 1986 I think it was. That was luxury then. Had a MB350SE then and the Toyota was in no way anything less than the MB.

But then don't the ES and Camry and Avalon look very different too ?

That was my point, if the cars are from the same umbrella group of companies doesn't necessarily mean they are the same. There are tangible differences between higher and lower priced cars and especially with Lexus one is not "just paying for the badge". I know from first hand experience as I have driven Toyota Avalon and Lexus GS in the US and here in the UK I have the ES... and a Camry it is definitely not.

Cheers,

--E

[Las Palmas]

22 minutes ago, e-yes said:

But then don't the ES and Camry and Avalon look very different too ?

That was my point, if the cars are from the same umbrella group of companies doesn't necessarily mean they are the same. There are tangible differences between higher and lower priced cars and especially with Lexus one is not "just paying for the badge". I know from first hand experience as I have driven Toyota Avalon and Lexus GS in the US and here in the UK I have the ES... and a Camry it is definitely not.

Cheers,

--E

Have never been in either, but some think the difference is not big: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-would-you-get-the-toyota-avalon-over-the-lexus-es/

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, e-yes said:

Exactly the point I was trying to make and now you have said it 🙂 

The RR Ghost when it as launched was platform shared with 7-series and had a some non-trivial number of parts sharing.

Even to this day as BMW (a German company) owns Rolls Royce (almost a British heritage institution if I am not exaggerating 🙂 ) and engines and software are shared between the two.

So, even if Lexus ES shared parts and platform with Toyota Camry and currently with the Toyota Avalon... it is an over simplification to state that a Lexus ES is "just a Camry". The devil is in the details 🙂 

HTH,

--E

I thank you Sir.

[Dippo]

Long ago when I worked in the Middle East, I had to go to Geneva to meet my boss. This coincided with him collecting his new car, a Lotus Esprit Turbo. After about 30 minutes of him driving, he offered to let me have a go. One thing I do remember is that the Lotus had Morris Marina door handles and switch gear. 

So to all of you who used to look down on the Marina, using the theme of  this thread it, it was clearly the same as an Esprit Turbo. 

[e-yes]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas said:

Have never been in either, but some think the difference is not big: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-would-you-get-the-toyota-avalon-over-the-lexus-es/

Avalon on it's own is a very fine car, however where Lexus has the tangible edge can be seen in pictures here https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g35789537/2021-toyota-avalon-awd-by-the-numbers-gallery/?slide=22

The interior, the touch points, the weighting of controls and the overall execution in Lexus products can be discerned easily having experienced Toyota and Lexus. Notice the piano black in Avalon and lack thereof in the ES... some people like the piano black... I am not one of them 🙂 

The next main difference is in the driver seat. The Avalon I drove didn't have the range of adjustment as the ES (extending thigh support) and not quite sure I don't remember now but the steering didn't have electrical adjustment linked with memory. It definitely did not do the entry/exit "choreography" of moving the seat and steering in/out of memorised setting.(maybe that can be optioned... not sure though)

The other differences are in NVH mitigation (in the Hybrid variant even more so).

[Mincey]

3 hours ago, e-yes said:

Even to this day as BMW (a German company) owns Rolls Royce (almost a British heritage institution if I am not exaggerating 🙂 ) and engines and software are shared between the two.

 

Ironic, considering that Rolls Royce engined planes shot down so many German planes in WW2.

[dutchie01]

The issue here could well be that Toyota is creeping upward in design, materials, luxury feeling. Toyotas are no longer the boring breadboxes of yesteryear just look at the new Prius, BZX range. It could well push Lexus into a corner just like Skoda has done with VW. What is the brand identity?  

[Las Palmas]

50 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

The issue here could well be that Toyota is creeping upward in design, materials, luxury feeling. Toyotas are no longer the boring breadboxes of yesteryear just look at the new Prius, BZX range. It could well push Lexus into a corner just like Skoda has done with VW. What is the brand identity?  

The rather old MR2 Spyder was also a very exiting car. Lexus have never made anything comparable.

[Mincey]

2 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

The rather old MR2 Spyder was also a very exiting car. Lexus have never made anything comparable.

The LF-A wasn't too bad apparently.

[Las Palmas]

34 minutes ago, Mincey said:

The LF-A wasn't too bad apparently.

Not really something to compare. One a fun car, the other an affluent floater.

[Mincey]

1 minute ago, Las Palmas said:

Not really something to compare. One a fun car, the other an affluent floater.

I know - I was just teasing (sorry)

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Have never been in either, but some think the difference is not big: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-would-you-get-the-toyota-avalon-over-the-lexus-es/

Although both are on the same Toyota platform, the Lexus has the additional strengthening with the rear brace etc

[Spottedlaurel]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:40 PM, MartinH said:

As a former owner of two generations of Camry V6, I can say they were then by far the best cars I'd owned or driven, and led me on to Lexus ownership, which has proved an even greater pleasure but — alas! — not so reliable or cost-effective an experience.

Similar story here, but 5x 1990s Camrys with one being a V6 (but no issues with reliability on my newer Lexus - the aged LS400 is a different kettle of fish).

Sad to hear the current Camry is being dropped. Now if they'd only done an estate version of it (or the ES) to compete with Volvo and the German brands.....

[e-yes]

On 11/18/2022 at 12:21 PM, Las Palmas said:

They look rather different, but if you think so: OK.

So far I have not seen a glorified version of the Toyota Crown, a friend of mine had in 1986 I think it was. That was luxury then. Had a MB350SE then and the Toyota was in no way anything less than the MB.

Speaking of Crowns...

 

[Las Palmas]

Name is the same, but the new one does not look like a ctown. More like a clown.

 

[e-yes]

16 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Name is the same, but the new one does not look like a ctown. More like a clown.

 

I think the launch variant is an "acquired taste" ... but the overall lineup has a proper sedan as well. Seems like (or I am hoping) the next ES will be based on the sedan and not this half-car half-SUV total peacock.

But the video I linked is interesting as it has some of the history on the Crown variant (and why several models in Toyota line up are just... Crown)

--E

[ColinBarber]

On 11/19/2022 at 1:29 PM, Las Palmas said:

The rather old MR2 Spyder was also a very exiting car. Lexus have never made anything comparable.

Personally I didn't think the series III MR2 was a patch on the first two, but the end of the MR2 Spyder was the point at which Toyota became very boring until the GT86 started to bring something of interest back. Early 1990s with the Celica GT-Four, series II MR2, Supra TT was the best period in Toyota history from a driver's point of view.

[royoftherovers]

On 11/19/2022 at 9:03 AM, e-yes said:

Exactly the point I was trying to make and now you have said it 🙂 

The RR Ghost when it as launched was platform shared with 7-series and had a some non-trivial number of parts sharing.

Even to this day as BMW (a German company) owns Rolls Royce (almost a British heritage institution if I am not exaggerating 🙂 ) and engines and software are shared between the two.

So, even if Lexus ES shared parts and platform with Toyota Camry and currently with the Toyota Avalon... it is an over simplification to state that a Lexus ES is "just a Camry". The devil is in the details 🙂 

HTH,

--E

HTH, ???

[Las Palmas]

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Personally I didn't think the series III MR2 was a patch on the first two, but the end of the MR2 Spyder was the point at which Toyota became very boring until the GT86 started to bring something of interest back. Early 1990s with the Celica GT-Four, series II MR2, Supra TT was the best period in Toyota history from a driver's point of view.

Had the first serie MR2 and really fun to drive, so when left the cold country we came from for the island here we thought the Spyder was the right thing. Fresh air and lots of sun. Not as sharp handling as the first but the funniest car here till we got the Smart Roadster Coupé. Skin cancer is the reason we have no open car, only moonroof in the CT and when moon is up no problem with sun. While we had the black one we also were trying to find out if we could use a Delta EVO 2 Rally 4 wheel drive, but found out some were much faster in less competitive cars so only 3 - 4 months in the Lancia.

 

 

Now a CT is sufficient.

[e-yes]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

HTH, ???

Hope That Helped 🙂 

—E

[LenT]

 

 

On 11/19/2022 at 10:36 AM, Dippo said:

 One thing I do remember is that the Lotus had Morris Marina door handles and switch gear.  

My Elan had metalastik drive donuts off a Hillman Imp and wheel trims from a Morris Oxford.

Colin Chapman was renowned for raiding the parts boxes of other manufacturers.  The only difference was that you paid twice as much if you got them from Lotus!

[talaipwros]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:49 AM, royoftherovers said:

I`ve never heard that said before. Chalk and Cheese I would have said,but someone will explain it to me I`m sure.

Rolls royce ghost was a rebadged bmw 7 series

[Mincey]

2 hours ago, LenT said:

 

 

My Elan had metalastik drive donuts off a Hillman Imp and wheel trims from a Morris Oxford.

Colin Chapman was renowned for raiding the parts boxes of other manufacturers.  The only difference was that you paid twice as much if you got them from Lotus!

The Esprit with upside down Rover SD1 rear lights. I lodged with a colleague in Thetford who had, and probably still has, a Turbo Esprit. It was, as has been pointed out, a cornucopia of other manufacturers' bits and bobs. He let me take it for a spin around the town's outskirts which ticked a long standing entry off my bucket list.

EDIT: Found a piccy

[Las Palmas]

The sweetest car with hidden lamps was the one that claimed: Nur Fliegen ist Schöner.