Solar panels

[Shahpor]

Hi all,

The wife and I are considering getting solar panels installed on the house along with a Battery.

Just wanted to see if there were any recommendations on installers as I can't seem to find anyone that is even willing to come and have a look for a quote at the moment (understandable I suppose, considering the current energy pricing)?

Also, any feedback from anyone who has done it?  Any typical costs would also be good to see what it will work out to in the end.

Thanks.

[ColinBarber]

After a recommendation I've ordered with Kembla. They have a Portsmouth office so will cover Hampshire.

Prices have risen in the last 9 months. The rapid rise of electricity prices have allowed companies to raise prices with demand, and the Battery components are in short supply. I probably won't get it installed until March.

 

6.4 kWh 16 panels, 5kW inverter, 9.5 kWh Battery (GivEnergy), bird protection, two lots of scaffolding due to east/west design. Getting on for £13k installed. E.on would be approx. £2.5k more for the same size Battery, but offer 0% interest financing over 3 years. 

 

 

[Shahpor]

That is brilliant and exactly what I was after.  Thanks very much Colin 👍

I will give them a call tomorrow.

 

[BrettMRC]

I'm looking to do similar on the new garage - although the news of the extended lead times isn't encouraging!

[Brian R]

On 11/6/2022 at 7:51 PM, ColinBarber said:

After a recommendation I've ordered with Kembla. They have a Portsmouth office so will cover Hampshire.

Prices have risen in the last 9 months. The rapid rise of electricity prices have allowed companies to raise prices with demand, and the battery components are in short supply. I probably won't get it installed until March.

 

6.4 kWh 16 panels, 5kW inverter, 9.5 kWh battery (GivEnergy), bird protection, two lots of scaffolding due to east/west design. Getting on for £13k installed. E.on would be approx. £2.5k more for the same size battery, but offer 0% interest financing over 3 years. 

 

 

Colin, many thanks for that information. I don't suppose the component costs were broken down? The reason for asking is my daughter moved into a new build with four panels, inverter but no Battery. Looking at the power output, then on a good day she can very easily power up the house with plenty to spare. At night of course a different story and this is where a Battery would come in useful. I wonder whether you might have an individual price for that and of course any idea of its capacity.

I must also say that 13K doesn't sound a bad price and certainly worth considering depending on the payback costs.

[hockeyedwards]

My house was new build and came with solar panels, admittedly now 6 years ago so were a bit behind tech wise, so I filled my roof with 12 new panels, new inverter and added a 6kwh Battery and due another 6kwh to be installed next week. I ordered in May and they installed in September after 2 push backs. 12 Hyundai 410w panels, Growatt inverter and 6.5 kwh Battery with scaffolding and fitting cost me £9990. The new Battery will cost me £3k but they are waiving install fee as I had my previous one through them. If you looked on Deege Solar website, they give you 'bundle prices' - I would say my package equivalent would now cost me £13-14k (plus the £3k for new battery).

I used Deege Solar, as they had done a big install on my dads house and an enourmous one down the road on a farm to replace diesel generators. However, they are booking for installs half way into next year and think they will likely have to push those dates back as supply/ demand starts to skew even more. If you are interested, ordering sooner (atm) is better. The owner of Deege Solar said that currently his month on month buy in price for the equipment is raising 6% each time!

Make sure whoever you order with is established and not just jumping on the hype to make a quick buck. They should do a sun-path analysis and advise what you would benefit from most. I am totally obsessed with it. I manage the Battery charge/ discharge through an app and about to add an Eddi to divert solar excess to heat hot water. GivEnergy and Growatt would be my go-to for components. Also if you go with Octopus as your provider and have an EV, you get a cheap overnight charge rate.

Happy hunting!

[Phil xxkr]

On 11/6/2022 at 7:58 PM, Shahpor said:

That is brilliant and exactly what I was after.  Thanks very much Colin 👍

I will give them a call tomorrow.

 

I have used the same company 👍

[Shahpor]

10 hours ago, hockeyedwards said:

My house was new build and came with solar panels, admittedly now 6 years ago so were a bit behind tech wise, so I filled my roof with 12 new panels, new inverter and added a 6kwh battery and due another 6kwh to be installed next week. I ordered in May and they installed in September after 2 push backs. 12 Hyundai 410w panels, Growatt inverter and 6.5 kwh battery with scaffolding and fitting cost me £9990. The new battery will cost me £3k but they are waiving install fee as I had my previous one through them. If you looked on Deege Solar website, they give you 'bundle prices' - I would say my package equivalent would now cost me £13-14k (plus the £3k for new battery).

I used Deege Solar, as they had done a big install on my dads house and an enourmous one down the road on a farm to replace diesel generators. However, they are booking for installs half way into next year and think they will likely have to push those dates back as supply/ demand starts to skew even more. If you are interested, ordering sooner (atm) is better. The owner of Deege Solar said that currently his month on month buy in price for the equipment is raising 6% each time!

Make sure whoever you order with is established and not just jumping on the hype to make a quick buck. They should do a sun-path analysis and advise what you would benefit from most. I am totally obsessed with it. I manage the battery charge/ discharge through an app and about to add an Eddi to divert solar excess to heat hot water. GivEnergy and Growatt would be my go-to for components. Also if you go with Octopus as your provider and have an EV, you get a cheap overnight charge rate.

Happy hunting!

Thanks for the info Kieran.

Good to get some pricing as well since it can be quite difficult to pin down estimates considering how much can be customised in the setup.  The way things are going, I would be happy for an all-in system with Battery at 6.5KwH for £15k ish.

I already have a Zappi from Myenergi, so I will be looking into the possibility of the Eddi as well.

Already with Octopus as well, but don't currently have a smart meter (it is being installed in a couple of weeks).  Since I will have my Kia Niro EV by the end of the month, timely indeed for the cheap tariff you mentioned.

[hockeyedwards]

@Shahpor no problem man, it is usually a guarded topic by many discussing financial outlay, which I totally understand but it is a complete minefield in a booming industry and businesses are essentially making the prices up. Seems you are on the right path which is good news. I would potentially swap out our NX to a plug in just for the cheap rate charge haha, could actually be useful 😛

The Zappi is decent, again my dad has 2 and the whole system 'talks' really well and managed via app and he's a fussy git so must be good to keep him happy!!

If you want an Eddi, order now its already an 8 week wait 😞 and make sure you get the new gen and don't get lumped with an old gen for new pricing (old has one aerial and new has two).

Another small tip, saves you getting it added in later, but having the Battery doesn't actually truly take you 'off grid' if the power goes out, you're still stuffed. Need to add in a 'switch over box' which then allows you to use your Battery energy in place of the grid, should it go out due to damage or for repair etc.

Currently doing a nerdy 'energy audit' on our appliances to see real world consumption and swapping stuff out for more energy efficient items, the dive is deep! 🤣

[ALAW]

On 11/6/2022 at 7:51 PM, ColinBarber said:

After a recommendation I've ordered with Kembla. They have a Portsmouth office so will cover Hampshire.

Prices have risen in the last 9 months. The rapid rise of electricity prices have allowed companies to raise prices with demand, and the battery components are in short supply. I probably won't get it installed until March.

 

6.4 kWh 16 panels, 5kW inverter, 9.5 kWh battery (GivEnergy), bird protection, two lots of scaffolding due to east/west design. Getting on for £13k installed. E.on would be approx. £2.5k more for the same size battery, but offer 0% interest financing over 3 years. 

 

 

Good info Colin. I haven't got it but a couple of neighbor's have who have south facing roofs which the panels are mounted on. You mentioned bird protection. How does this work i believe birds have nested under these neighbor's panels (Doves/Pidgeons)and they are always around. Does bird muck affect the panels. Just wondered what the bird protection is and how it works.

[Illogan]

I researched, specified and fitted four solar panels to our boat 10 years ago, (so, my needs then were very different from domestic requirements today and for the foreseeable future - and technology has moved apace too)

However, the principles are similar. One needs to determine the likely available level of light available in each given location, the type of panel most suitable for that location, how and when you wish to use the power, the capacity of your Battery bank (and the optimum is relevant to all the previously listed parameters AND the cost/charging rate of the various Battery types, and the most efficient controllers to drive it all.

The process can be complicated, and there are many (energy vs cost) variables, so please don't scrimp with your research, (and do NOT accept initial quotes)

Also be prepared to accept that maximum power is provided when you need it least (bright summer days) and comparatively little is available when you need it most (winter)

 

 

[Barry14UK]

This thread has served to remind me that I should investigate the potential advantage of adding Battery storage capability to my pv system.  I had it installed  just after I bought my bungalow some 11 years ago.  I paid circa 12K for the system which is probably slightly more than it would cost to install today.  However, it was installed just before the Government reduced the Feed In Tariff rate for new Installations.  The actual  FIT rate for us increases every year and this in itself has paid for the system in just under 7 years and we have had the benefit of reducing our electricity bill, particularly in the summer.  Also, there is a small reimbursement for the electricity we export to the National Grid.  I believe our FIT is for 25 years, (although I understand this was reduced to 20 years for later installations), either way, property apart, this has to be the best investment of mine.

With the considerable increase in the cost of electricity and the low rate Electrical companies pay for partial export to the Grid, batteries may be worth the cost of incorporating.

I even wonder about installing a specialised small compact windmill in the garden.  Then there is the is the possibility of an air heat pump. I think an underground heat pump might be too disruptive and likely expensive.  I suppose it makes sense to review all ones energy options before jumping in.  A nice exercise!

[Phil xxkr]

8 hours ago, ALAW said:

Good info Colin. I haven't got it but a couple of neighbor's have who have south facing roofs which the panels are mounted on. You mentioned bird protection. How does this work i believe birds have nested under these neighbor's panels (Doves/Pidgeons)and they are always around. Does bird muck affect the panels. Just wondered what the bird protection is and how it works.

Just look up solar panels bird protection. Essentially most panels are on brackets and stand proud of your roof tiles allowing a nice dry space for birds, a mesh or spikes surrounding the panel stops this. Bird poo, dust etc will affect panel performance but washing off with a hose fixes this as well as panel optimisers 👍

[ColinBarber]

9 hours ago, ALAW said:

Good info Colin. I haven't got it but a couple of neighbor's have who have south facing roofs which the panels are mounted on. You mentioned bird protection. How does this work i believe birds have nested under these neighbor's panels (Doves/Pidgeons)and they are always around. Does bird muck affect the panels. Just wondered what the bird protection is and how it works.

There are different options, including panels that are sunk into the roof so there is no gap, but this is more expensive and not something you could do retrospectively. Most are skirts/mesh that go around the outside of the panels so there isn't a gap for them to get under the panels and nest. They obviously make a mess but you will also hear them on the roof which would become annoying.

 

11 hours ago, hockeyedwards said:

Another small tip, saves you getting it added in later, but having the battery doesn't actually truly take you 'off grid' if the power goes out, you're still stuffed. Need to add in a 'switch over box' which then allows you to use your battery energy in place of the grid, should it go out due to damage or for repair etc.

Givenergy has an Emergency Power Supply (EPS) feature built into their hybrid inverters but the switchover takes a second or two and because the inverter output power isn't that high (5 kW) you could over load it if you connected all your circuits to it. Therefore most installations install just a double socket or one or two circuits only. I believe they will be coming out with a new product that would work much more like the Tesla Powerwall which has instant failover.

The cost to implement any of these islanding features is high if you rely on your Earth coming from your mains installation (which most modern setups are (TN-C-S)). If you have a power cut then you cannot guarantee the Earth is safe and have to isolate it along with the Live and Neutral. Therefore you need a separate Earth so a rod would need to be installed.

[Hillie]

4 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

There are different options, including panels that are sunk into the roof so there is no gap, but this is more expensive and not something you could do retrospectively. Most are skirts/mesh that go around the outside of the panels so there isn't a gap for them to get under the panels and nest. They obviously make a mess but you will also hear them on the roof which would become annoying.

 

Givenergy has an Emergency Power Supply (EPS) feature built into their hybrid inverters but the switchover takes a second or two and because the inverter output power isn't that high (5 kW) you could over load it if you connected all your circuits to it. Therefore most installations install just a double socket or one or two circuits only. I believe they will be coming out with a new product that would work much more like the Tesla Powerwall which has instant failover.

The cost to implement any of these islanding features is high if you rely on your Earth coming from your mains installation (which most modern setups are (TN-C-S)). If you have a power cut then you cannot guarantee the Earth is safe and have to isolate it along with the Live and Neutral. Therefore you need a separate Earth so a rod would need to be installed.

I went with Infinity Renewables (also with an office in Hampshire) for my solar installation. Solar Installation 4.3Kw JA Solar panels,  5Kw Growat (Solis) hybrid inverter and 9Kw Battery storage with EPS double socket, optimisers and bird mesh @ £10,500 at time of installation in June 2022. This deal was part of the Hampshire Solar Together Group Buy scheme.   I do agree with the comment about rising prices but also be aware of very long delivery and installation times.

Colins note about the EPS socket and rating is correct.  These EPS devices will max out at 10 amps to 13 amps limited by the inverter and intended for basic emergency backup such as medical devices and fridge freezer backup. When testing my EPS socket I also noted the earth connection concern.

Note : I  did originally have an order in for a Telsa Powerwall2 for the full off-grid backup features and benefits but the Tesla approved installer could not provide me with a confirmed delivery date even after 6 months. Verbally they were advising 18months+.  I cancelled that order.

[Phil xxkr]

9 hours ago, Illogan said:

I researched, specified and fitted four solar panels to our boat 10 years ago, (so, my needs then were very different from domestic requirements today and for the foreseeable future - and technology has moved apace too)

However, the principles are similar. One needs to determine the likely available level of light available in each given location, the type of panel most suitable for that location, how and when you wish to use the power, the capacity of your battery bank (and the optimum is relevant to all the previously listed parameters AND the cost/charging rate of the various battery types, and the most efficient controllers to drive it all.

The process can be complicated, and there are many (energy vs cost) variables, so please don't scrimp with your research, (and do NOT accept initial quotes)

Also be prepared to accept that maximum power is provided when you need it least (bright summer days) and comparatively little is available when you need it most (winter)

 

 

Your point about research is well made Dave and on YouTube there is a wealth of real world experience from people such as The EV Puzzle, Daniel Coe, Anthony Dwyer etc. And yes, it can appear complex mainly because the terminology used is a new thing to most people. A bit like the early days of personal computers. 

The number one question is, why do I want to do this? In my case it was return on investment. I fully expect this to be apx 10% in the first year. You may however wish to save the planet. Efficency of configuration components is improving rapidly along with upward costs so that's a consideration. The biggest advance however is the availability of affordable batteries. This enables you to use "time of use" load shifting in the winter when there is little solar by paying 12/15p a kW to solar excess in the summer which you can sell back to your supplier and get back 15p+ per kW. 

[hockeyedwards]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

Givenergy has an Emergency Power Supply (EPS) feature built into their hybrid inverters but the switchover takes a second or two and because the inverter output power isn't that high (5 kW) you could over load it if you connected all your circuits to it. Therefore most installations install just a double socket or one or two circuits only. I believe they will be coming out with a new product that would work much more like the Tesla Powerwall which has instant failover.

The cost to implement any of these islanding features is high if you rely on your Earth coming from your mains installation (which most modern setups are (TN-C-S)). If you have a power cut then you cannot guarantee the Earth is safe and have to isolate it along with the Live and Neutral. Therefore you need a separate Earth so a rod would need to be installed.

Thanks for the info on the GivEnergy front, I had done most of my research around Growatt as my installer at the time could give me a better lead time than if I went with GivEnergy.

The Earth concern was noted at my dads property especially due to age and location but I believe some back and forth between the grid and the installer produced a solution (it escapes me what the conclusion was).

[Phil0110]

I recommend taking a closer look at a set of Prology monocrystalline solar panels with a power of 400 watts with a 30 A charger controller  I installed this on our RV in rainy Pacific North West. Easy installation. Ever since we disconnected from the piedestall and have only used solar power. I did not expect to be able to do that here in Oregon. But our batteries get fully charges every day and during the day we discharge To 40 - 50%, BUT IN THE AFTERNOON WE REACH 100% again. It has been like that even on rainy days. We can run lights, fans, water pump, tv, charging for PC, Phones and Ipads. All this on 400W solar system. I'm very possitive surprised by this. Moreover I save 33% of my money.

[Shahpor]

Thanks for the info @Phil0110.

You have reminded me that I haven't updated this thread!

Anyway, after speaking to Declan and Daniel I have ordered a SolarEdge system from Kembla.  So far they have been knowledgeable and helpful, so thanks for the recommendation 👍

On order are 16 x Jinko Tiger Pro 54c 420W N-Type All Black Mono Panels, SolarEdge 5000 HD Wave inverter, SolarEdge 5kW Smart Energy Hot Water Heater and SolarEdge Energy Bank 10kWh Battery.

Fingers crossed we are looking at a Feb/March installation.

It would also be remiss of me not to mention the considerable amount of help @Phil xxkr has very kindly provided me.  Thanks Phil! 🙂

[Phil xxkr]

2 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Thanks for the info @Phil0110.

You have reminded me that I haven't updated this thread!

Anyway, after speaking to Declan and Daniel I have ordered a SolarEdge system from Kembla.  So far they have been knowledgeable and helpful, so thanks for the recommendation 👍

On order are 16 x Jinko Tiger Pro 54c 420W N-Type All Black Mono Panels, SolarEdge 5000 HD Wave inverter, SolarEdge 5kW Smart Energy Hot Water Heater and SolarEdge Energy Bank 10kWh Battery.

Fingers crossed we are looking at a Feb/March installation.

It would also be remiss of me not to mention the considerable amount of help @Phil xxkr has very kindly provided me.  Thanks Phil! 🙂

My pleasure Shahpor, and that goes for anyone on here. March will be a good month as the longer days will have a dramatic effect on production. Having said that for the last 4 calendar months, excluding standing charges, my electricity payments are averaging 81 pence a day. This does not include the Government subsidy 😎, I expect this to go positive come March despite January price increases yet again😕

[Shahpor]

Hey all,

Time for an update.  Finally got the system installed on Thursday! 🥳

 

So far, so good.  Solar Water Heater is still on backorder, but the rest is done.  A couple of small hiccups along the way, but nothing major and Daniel from Kembla has been great throughout, so definitely recommended.

Still haven't ironed out a few setup quirks, the biggest one being that you can't stop the house Battery from being drained if you charge your EV via the Zappi.  I think there might be a way where you 'turn off' the house Battery and use just the grid, but I haven't had a chance to test that yet.

With the weather being what it is, solar production hasn't been great, but it is still a novelty to see the house not consuming grid power for most of the day 🙂

Our panel layout turned out like this in the end:

With North being straight up, you can see that we actually have 3 panels facing north east, which despite not technically being recommended, still seem to put out a reasonable amount of power.  This, again, came down to the great installers we had as it was their suggestion on the day once they had seen our roof that it would work in our case.

Oh, and if anyone is considering a SolarEdge setup, I have found Anthony Dyer's videos invaluable, especially when it came time to setup storage profiles:

https://www.youtube.com/@anthonydyer3939

Can't wait to watch the numbers like a hawk in the coming months now 🙂

 

[Malc1]

Solar Panels eh !

living in a Conservation Area I'm more or less precluded from having them on the roof etc ............  and remembering going back some 20 years maybe  !!!

When i was involved in energy conservation stuff  .  chatting with a guy from BP in Holland was it ?  Joern Bo .  a great guy who's knowledge of all things BP solar panels was second to none  .  advising that the continuous research and development of these SPs was so constant that he thought they ( BP ) in their research would never get to the " ideal " formulation .  the technology just moved on so .  and I guess continues to this day too  .  and in 5 years time the standard SP of today will possibly be but a poor relation of what's ahead in SP technology

Malc

 

[Shahpor]

The technology of the panels has come a long way, which is reflected in the price - roughly £150 per panel now!

I also think that the biggest game changer with these systems in the inclusion of a Battery.  It adds massively to the efficiency as, for example, I am currently running from my Battery that was charged during the day.  This means that in the coming months I will be able to run my house on solar generated power 24 x 7.

The cost of the battery's is a bit of an issue at the moment, but hopefully they will go the same way as the panels have in the near future.

[Mr Vlad]

Oh dear. I watched this video and was rather shocked about the manufacture of solar panels and where the parts within come from. Don't mean to pee on your parade Shahpor. 

 

 

[hockeyedwards]

@Shahpor good to see your system is up and running, the glory months are just around the corner!

After install last year, September ran 90% off grid, winter months have been 'tough' and due to sub optimal roof position and lack of sun, was pretty much reliant on overnight charge, but still better than running from the grid for the day! Plus the government grant was pretty much covering my expenditure. Recent weeks have seen 6kw+ being generated, so more to come in sunnier months!

I have set up the Eddi to force discharge power from the Battery in the morning and evening to heat the hot water, regardless of surplus from the panels. Heating will soon be completely off and will be much less reliant on grid charge overnight. Small bills here we come!

Enjoy watching your apps like a hawk haha!