Cancelled cruise

[Bill Dawes]

We booked a cruise way back in 2019 for our 40th wedding anniversary in 2020, well we all know what happened in 2020. Eventually rebooked it for 2022, doing our medical declaration a couple of days before cruise on 08 October I inadvertantly answered yes  to one of the questions and it immediately came up on screen , cruise cancelled you will not be allowed on board, immediate phone calls were in vain. they (P&O) just said claim off your insurance. Did just that and had verdict today from insurance provider (Staysure) , guess what, claim off P&O.

Anyone of a certain age with pre existing medical conditions will be aware of the eye watering amount cruise insurance costs, we had the expensive comrehensive option even so living up to insurance companies reputation, look for a way out rather than pay up.

So back to P&O, followed by ABTA followed by credit card people followed by BBC rip off Britain, any other ideas guys, we don't do social media, perhaps we should.

Bill D.

[Malc1]

If P&O down-sold your cabin / cruise then they should reimburse you fully

Can you know if your slot was subsequently filled / sold down ?

Probably not eh !

Press the credit card people for a Chargeback .......  keep pressing until they say Yes 

Report the Insurers to the Financial Ombudsman for fraud / mis=selling 

A difficult one for sure ...  not sure what else to say ........

Malc

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Bill Dawes said:

doing our medical declaration a couple of days before cruise on 08 October I inadvertantly answered yes  to one of the questions and it immediately came up on screen , cruise cancelled you will not be allowed on board

I hate to say this but it looks like a case of clumsy fingers, or just not concentrating, or being momentarily distracted - in other words, your own fault.

I'm really not sure what you expect the insurance company or P&O to do about it given that it's your own mistake.

[Bill Dawes]

Just to clarify what I said about inadvertently answering yes, the question, one of several, was something along the lines of, have you or are you suffering any of the following. There followed a list of symptoms covering every known ailment know to mankind, eg coughs, sneezes, aches pains, sickness, headache etc. As I was recovering from a mild cold the previous week and bearing in mind the advice in these matters is to be honest, I said yes, fully expecting further questions but no, bang, end of cruise. So substitute inadvertently for naive, should have just said no. My wife and I were stunned, staring at the screen in disbelief. What do you do if you suffer from hayfever as I and millions of others do, the honest answer would be yes of course, hayfever isn't contagious but your cruise would have been cancelled with no opportunity for further explanation. 

Bill D.

[Bill Dawes]

The other inexplicable thing is that P&O stopped compulsory Covid testing, just saying they recommend you do a test but with no requirement for submitting results, a waste of time in other words, how many people would test positive but still went because they felt ok.

Bill D.

[Malc1]

methinks never to recommend a cruise just yet .....  the world is still full of covid and other nasties ......... as i said Saga Cruises used to offer Free Medical cover ........  wonder if they still do so ?

So have you totally lost all your money to P&O  ?

Malc

[royoftherovers]

15 hours ago, Bill Dawes said:

We booked a cruise way back in 2019 for our 40th wedding anniversary in 2020, well we all know what happened in 2020. Eventually rebooked it for 2022, doing our medical declaration a couple of days before cruise on 08 October I inadvertantly answered yes  to one of the questions and it immediately came up on screen , cruise cancelled you will not be allowed on board, immediate phone calls were in vain. they (P&O) just said claim off your insurance. Did just that and had verdict today from insurance provider (Staysure) , guess what, claim off P&O.

Anyone of a certain age with pre existing medical conditions will be aware of the eye watering amount cruise insurance costs, we had the expensive comrehensive option even so living up to insurance companies reputation, look for a way out rather than pay up.

So back to P&O, followed by ABTA followed by credit card people followed by BBC rip off Britain, any other ideas guys, we don't do social media, perhaps we should.

Bill D.

Consider Small Claims route if total claim is less than £5k.

A Judge would consider it unfair if an innocent mistake could not be corrected.

[Bill Dawes]

Hi Malc & John, at the moment it has cost us over £5k for cruise, excursions and  insurance.

Next move will be back to P&O telling them insurance company have batted it back to them and we will be complaining to ABTA and proceeding with credit card chargeback. Small claims court another option but god know how long that will take, our son has been waiting for a small claims court for well over a year now, Covid of course is blamed, don't you guys think the Covid excuse is wearing a bit thin now?

I did send a complaint by email to P&O customer services who to be fair did respond, not entirely the usual corporate crap, but said they would report my complaint to their marketing department about the way the website medical declaration works which is black and white, no drilling down with more questions on specifiic ailment (as do insurance companies when you are declaring existing medical conditions)

Just had another thought, BBC rip off Britain programme or similar.

Bill D.

[Sundance]

Let's be clear. You booked a cruise in 2019 and what, paid for it then? Or when did you pay for it?

Whenever you did secure the cruise presumably you were provided with a contract plus Terms & Conditions within which (ie. the small print) there would be a clause or clauses explaining cancellation by either party.

You haven't mentioned this but surely it is relevant.

[Malc1]

3 hours ago, Bill Dawes said:

don't you guys think the Covid excuse is wearing a bit thin now

Not at all  ..  just coz in the UK all seems a lot better the rest of the world simply isn't

My guy in Delhi ( my travel business chief guy )  is leading a small Group tour in Malaysia and, having a couple of days spare, suggested he pop down to Singapore from Kuala Lumpur to visit, stay with a close buddy living there ......  a No No, they are just recovering from Covid .....   Moma who's 90+ lives with them thankfully hasn't been affected tho'  ...........  the world's still not a particularly safe place to travel around

 

Malc

[Bill Dawes]

Rowley, this is not so much about contract conditions as the circumstances that lead to it.

The medical declaration is brutally black or white, when you do a similar thing with an insurance company for pre existing medical conditions you put in whatever the condition is and this is followed by several other questions to drill down into more detail. There is no such opportunity in the P&O questionaire and unless you have fallen foul of it before you have no inkling of what will follow. Basically we appear to be in the position of P&O demanding third party cover on what is actually an uninsurable situation. The logical consequence is that people that are aware of it will just lie unless they are actually seriously ill.

Referring to the forum on a cruise website I am not alone in this situation with P&O so they can expect many claims being pursued.

Bill D.

[Moleman]

8 hours ago, Bill Dawes said:

Rowley, this is not so much about contract conditions as the circumstances that lead to it.

The medical declaration is brutally black or white, when you do a similar thing with an insurance company for pre existing medical conditions you put in whatever the condition is and this is followed by several other questions to drill down into more detail. There is no such opportunity in the P&O questionaire and unless you have fallen foul of it before you have no inkling of what will follow. Basically we appear to be in the position of P&O demanding third party cover on what is actually an uninsurable situation. The logical consequence is that people that are aware of it will just lie unless they are actually seriously ill.

Referring to the forum on a cruise website I am not alone in this situation with P&O so they can expect many claims being pursued.

Bill D.

Bill, if the contract condition is unreasonable, then a claim against that can be made.

if you complete the declaration after paying for the cruise, and they refuse to provide the service after you have paid and then completed their declaration. A reasonable contract would allow both parties to withdraw at that point. 

You suggest others have a similar problem, it would make sense to raise this with a national organisation or newspaper.

Hope you find a solution.

[Malc1]

Bill, are you a member of any organisation that will put you in touch with their own Legal Help Line people for an initial freebie chat at least ?

Say a current member of the Federation of Small Businesses  ( FSB  > not to be confused with Putin's Secret Service  🤑 ) or some such ...  maybe even your Home Insurers Help Line could assist you here ?   Member of a Union ?

Just a thought !

 

Malc

[BrettMRC]

Feel for you OP, especially as frankly anyones circumstances could change from a pre-pandemic booking to now! (I'd also be giving a complaint to the insurer as well - what the hell are you paying them for if not this?!)

Out of interest, did the online form immeadiately kick you out when you hit the answer - or was it after you hit a submit button at the bottom?

...if it's the former then that is insanity on their part! 

[Sundance]

13 hours ago, Bill Dawes said:

Rowley, this is not so much about contract conditions as the circumstances that lead to it.

The medical declaration is brutally black or white, when you do a similar thing with an insurance company for pre existing medical conditions you put in whatever the condition is and this is followed by several other questions to drill down into more detail. There is no such opportunity in the P&O questionaire and unless you have fallen foul of it before you have no inkling of what will follow. Basically we appear to be in the position of P&O demanding third party cover on what is actually an uninsurable situation. The logical consequence is that people that are aware of it will just lie unless they are actually seriously ill.

Referring to the forum on a cruise website I am not alone in this situation with P&O so they can expect many claims being pursued.

Bill D.

Which I'm afraid, if you want to claim, is more than likely to be the direct opposite of legally minded opinion.

Clearly you're out of pocket for a service/product that for whatever reason is no longer available and you may well deserve your money back. However nobody, least of all those on a car forum, will be in any position to help you unless they are in possession of all the facts.

I simply suggested insight into your contract and also when money changed hands because those would almost certainly be the very first things any discerning lawyer would ask you before they agreed to represent you in support of a claim.

I too hope you find a solution but with only half the story I find it difficult to be of any plausible help. Sorry.

[Bill Dawes]

Update on this, put in insurance claim, guess what they came back with response saying responsibility lies with P&O, claim from them. We have written to P&O saying we are referring this to ABTA and instigating chargeback with credit card company (we use credit card for major purchases for this very reason) failing that we will be taking legal action.

Similar letter to insurance company expressing our disappointment.

Bill D.

[Sundance]

Not clear as to whether or not you've referred to your purchase contract Ts&Cs.

Might just give you a bit more direction going forward don't you think?

As before mentioned, legal action might be contingent on the cancellation terms.

Good luck all the same.

[Malc1]

Bill, as owner of a travel agent business i should mention that the Chargeback route can be fraught with lots of unhelpfulness from your card bank provider and as for ABTA, well, don't hold your breath with them for sure .......  have they ever paid out on anything one wonders  !!!!

My earlier thoughts prevail that getting an independent legal Help Line to give up-front thoughts and then to try to get a good legal team to work for you on a " no win no fee " basis could be very useful ...........  independent legal travel might take you some years to get a settlement and only then, if in your favour, would they likely settle " Out of Court " maybe the day before the scheduled trial date ......  maybe years ahead of where you are now

The legal line could be quite draining personally ...... so take care eh !

In Equity you are likely due recompense from somewhere .....  just try to de-stress while you're getting your Just Dues .......  plenty of cups of tea might help

Best wishes and lots of Good Luck

 

Malc

[Bill Dawes]

Thanks Malc, my wife and I are pretty relaxed about it at the moment, just dealing with each rebuff as it comes along.

Stay at your post for next exciting episode chaps.

Bill D.

[Bill Dawes]

Bit of an update chaps, having now had P&O and Staysure each saying claim off the other we sent an official complaint to P&O stating we fully expect a full refund.  P&O acknowledged receipt of complaint, ABTA said they will not consider any claim until P&O have had a full 28 days to respond, allowing some leeway for postal strikes (they have phone number, email and text of course) it has now been some 40 days and no response at all so we will now register formal complaint with ABTA.

Bill D.

[Malc1]

Bill  ...  how's this all going ?

Malc

[Crypedged]

On 11/6/2022 at 4:48 AM, Bill Dawes said:

We booked a cruise way back in 2019 for our 40th wedding anniversary in 2020, well we all know what happened in 2020. Eventually rebooked it for 2022, doing our medical declaration a couple of days before cruise on 08 October I inadvertantly answered yes  to one of the questions and it immediately came up on screen , cruise cancelled you will not be allowed on board, immediate phone calls were in vain. they (P&O) just said claim off your insurance. Did just that and had verdict today from insurance provider (Staysure) , guess what, claim off P&O.

Anyone of a certain age with pre existing medical conditions will be aware of the eye watering amount cruise insurance costs, we had the expensive comrehensive option even so living up to insurance companies reputation, look for a way out rather than pay up.

So back to P&O, followed by ABTA followed by credit card people followed by BBC rip off Britain, any other ideas guys, we don't do social media, perhaps we should. Also you can refer to the game Terraria, this is an interesting game that you should experience.

Bill D.

 If you believe that the cancellation was unjustified, you can try reaching out to P&O directly and seeking a resolution. If that does not work, you may consider speaking with ABTA, the UK travel trade association, as they may be able to assist you in resolving the issue. Additionally, if you paid for the cruise with a credit card, you may be able to dispute the charge through your credit card company.

[Bill Dawes]

Making a small amount of progress with P&O after complaining to parent company Carnival Corp. who instructed P&O to re-open case. Latest from P&O was saying they would offer a future cruise credit (FCC) later confirming this would also include any excursions booked.

Have replied saying we are not happy with an FCC as we do not have any plans for another cruise in the near future also saying we want compensation for over £700 in travel insurance, cruise cancelled by P&O and no fault of insurance company.  Total refund is what we have demanded right from the start. (For those that gasped at insurance cost, if you are a certain age with existing medical conditions and on a cruise, insurance is eye watering.)

Waiting for response to this.  Contacted ABTA, initial response disappointing, they said they could not interfere with members T&Cs, we responded by saying this did not sound like the independent  body they claim to be and could they look at circumstances we had outlined again. More positive response this time and they have contacted P&O we believe.

Our next step wil be credit card provider, we use credit card for this type of thing for this very reason.

And so it goes on, I think these companies rely on people giving up with battle fatigue.

Bill D.

[VFR]

Morning Bill

Your story sounds tailor made for one of these Rip off Britain TV programs & a warning to many to avoid P&O. 

Good luck. 

[Malc1]

Aw c'mon now guys  .  these cruise operators are run by the accountants now and any thoughts of Loyalty or Customer Care just vanished 

Son-in-law's parents on a recent 2 week TUI fly cruise to Jamaica and around the delightful Caribbean ......  note under the cabin door the start of the 2nd week cruise saying  "  CRUISE CANCELLED " 

Flew home next day to UK and £300 credit towards a next booking and some compensation ....... all that sodding around to and fro Heathrow etc, wot a bummer eh !

Reason .  couldn't get the food on board  .  you may laugh .  fact is 900 passengers in a 918 cabin ship .  why would the accountants let it continue at a loss one asks 

Sign of things to come 

Don't hold your breath for any changes soon .  these operators have a lot lot of catching up to do to get their balance sheets right after covid

The German Govt owns most of TUI and Sept 22 Balance Sheet shows the German Govt had to dump half a billion ££££ or is it euros, into the business to keep it " afloat " .  and after having taken out / sidelined a Russian oligarch they discovered secretly owned 30% of TUI tooooo

NOW  many cruise companies are a part of the TUI empire now  .  so take care eh !    Check up before you book any cruises to see who actually owns / runs the business, shipping line you're trusting with your money and more importantly TIME

 

Fred Olsen and Ambassador are independent and MSC ( sadly with huge ships tho' ) are Italian and have been around in shipping since the days of Pirates, the 1600's I understand 

Best go by car and drive your Lexus wheresoever you can eh !

Malc