HELP- Timing chain slapping on 28k mile IS-F!

[Lexusisf]

Please if anyone can help me. I'm putting a case forward for Lexus to repair my vehicle under warranty (10 year Lexus relax ends next year.) 

Car has the no1 left timing chain tensioner noise where the tension fluctuates causing chain slap at idle during warm up. Lexus issued a Technical Service Bulletin for the exact fault on all IS-F production years I'm sure you're aware 'EG-0031L-0516. 
Dealer rung myself telling me there's nothing wrong with the car pick it up. Which got my hackles up.
I went and showed the "master tech" the fault with the car explaining it has to be cold and idling. He recognises there to be a noise on the left of the engine but as far as he concerned "it's not as bad as the others that we have had come in for that TSB." So I said "well what is it then?". He couldn't answer. I am a fully qualified technician myself and now out of the motortrade I'm an engineer so I know a chain slap when I hear one, and I don't expect one on my 28k mile Toyota v8 with full main dealer service history. Especially when there's a known TSB to fit a superceded part number to cure my issue. Tech said "what if I authorise that repair and it's not that" to which I said "well what else is it going to be on a Toyota v8" is it going to be anything other than the TSB, I highly doubt it. Plus it's the exact same description of noise at the correct time it's meant to occur. Where do I stand. Lexus uk wanted the dealerships side of the story and then get back to me. I told him book time is 6.3hours and he told me last one took 20hours to do so it feels like they fobbing me off because Lexus only pay them 6.3 hours for the job. I have a video of it making the noise. The noise alway occurs but some days it's louder than others. Unfortunately it was one of the quiet days today when the  tech listened but he recognised a noise. Where do I stand and why won't they just do it. They should be paying me to keep such a fine example of a car on the road. Did I mention it's still under warranty. The point is proving it's the chain tensioner but how on earth am I going to do that. I know it is but he doesn't want to commit. My car has a part fitted with a design flaw. Lexus issue a tsb for the part after experiencing my exact symptoms. 
thanks for your time. Anyone got anywhere with Lexus uk in other issues and what was the deciding factor for them to warranty work. I would like to get the car independently inspected but don't know who would be authorised enough for them to notice. Thanks in advance any advice helpful when fighting these battles with manufacturers. 

EG-0031L-0516.pdf

[hockeyedwards]

I can sense you are a bit miffed and rightly so. Sounds like a case of 'we can't be bothered'. What is baffling to me and probably anyone else that reads your spiel. There is a known problem... you have the symptoms of said problem... a Lexus 'master tech' acknowledges the noise of said problem, yet neither them or Lexus UK want to move on it.. WTF?!

I would ask Lexus UK directly, if you were to get a second opinion, who would they accept as 'credible'? Maybe a known specialist or another dealer?

Also the 'what if it isn't that problem' is such a fobbing off, they should start to do it, then if it isn't that, call you and explain and say it is XYZ, it'll cost ABC to fix it, but if you don't want us to do it, then it'll cost you DEF because of the labour time we've spent so far - that is fair and to me, the correct way to go about things.

If I had my be a **** cap on (it comes out now and again). I would go to another Lexus dealer, explain the situation, pay them to inspect and diagnose. Then go back to your original dealer and rub it right in their face that it is the exact issue you have mentioned, then demand them and/or Lexus UK to reimburse you for the trouble of having to get diagnosis done (for an obvious problem that meets the service bulletin criteria) before being 'believed' and then once they agree to reimburse you (it is the minimum they should do as good will for wasting your time), go and get the recall done at the other dealer that helped diagnose and switch to getting your servicing/ MOT done there (if you get it done by Lexus). An all around 2 fingers up to this dealer that in my eyes (and i am sure, yours too) is slacking, to the point that they've essentially lost your business.

[Arqum]

I had the same thing but mine was the reverse, ticking sound once warm. My fix was the idler pulley. This was done under warranty. I wouldn’t have any of it. There is a TSB for a reason. How can someone say it’s not that but could be that in the same statement? It seems a case of I can’t be bothered. It’s not like they won’t get the money. The warranty will cover their costs and yours. 
 

Stick to your guns on this.

[ColinBarber]

Seems like they cannot do it in the time allocated and therefore don't want to.

Complain to Lexus UK and go to a dealer that can do it properly in the time.

[Lexusisf]

2 hours ago, Arqum said:

I had the same thing but mine was the reverse, ticking sound once warm. My fix was the idler pulley. This was done under warranty. I wouldn’t have any of it. There is a TSB for a reason. How can someone say it’s not that but could be that in the same statement? It seems a case of I can’t be bothered. It’s not like they won’t get the money. The warranty will cover their costs and yours. 
 

Stick to your guns on this.

Unfortunately this isn't the same problem or tsb but Thankyou I will stick to my guns. 

[Lexusisf]

3 hours ago, hockeyedwards said:

I can sense you are a bit miffed and rightly so. Sounds like a case of 'we can't be bothered'. What is baffling to me and probably anyone else that reads your spiel. There is a known problem... you have the symptoms of said problem... a Lexus 'master tech' acknowledges the noise of said problem, yet neither them or Lexus UK want to move on it.. WTF?!

I would ask Lexus UK directly, if you were to get a second opinion, who would they accept as 'credible'? Maybe a known specialist or another dealer?

Also the 'what if it isn't that problem' is such a fobbing off, they should start to do it, then if it isn't that, call you and explain and say it is XYZ, it'll cost ABC to fix it, but if you don't want us to do it, then it'll cost you DEF because of the labour time we've spent so far - that is fair and to me, the correct way to go about things.

If I had my be a **** cap on (it comes out now and again). I would go to another Lexus dealer, explain the situation, pay them to inspect and diagnose. Then go back to your original dealer and rub it right in their face that it is the exact issue you have mentioned, then demand them and/or Lexus UK to reimburse you for the trouble of having to get diagnosis done (for an obvious problem that meets the service bulletin criteria) before being 'believed' and then once they agree to reimburse you (it is the minimum they should do as good will for wasting your time), go and get the recall done at the other dealer that helped diagnose and switch to getting your servicing/ MOT done there (if you get it done by Lexus). An all around 2 fingers up to this dealer that in my eyes (and i am sure, yours too) is slacking, to the point that they've essentially lost your business.

Yes so the master tech won't admit obviously it's the chain making the noise but couldn't offer an explanation otherwise. I already told him it's not the injectors and it's not the fuel pump so he probably couldn't fob me off with much else. He said "if I authorise that and it isn't that part that's making the noise who pays for it" like it's coming out of his pocket? It's currently my word against a master tech of 30 years who they no doubt look upon with a halo hovering above his head. I know many people whom have worked with him and they all said he's not a bad tech but he's an absolute know it all, type. So I will be more than happy to prove him wrong. Where did the customer service go. I would bet my life on the tensioner and if it isn't I'll pay. But if it sorts it I want them to pay. It shouldn't have to be like this surely. They clearly just can't be bothered. 

[Rob RCF]

5 hours ago, Lexusisf said:

Please if anyone can help me. I'm putting a case forward for Lexus to repair my vehicle under warranty (10 year Lexus relax ends next year.) 

Car has the no1 left timing chain tensioner noise where the tension fluctuates causing chain slap at idle during warm up. Lexus issued a Technical Service Bulletin for the exact fault on all IS-F production years I'm sure you're aware 'EG-0031L-0516. 
Dealer rung myself telling me there's nothing wrong with the car pick it up. Which got my hackles up.
I went and showed the "master tech" the fault with the car explaining it has to be cold and idling. He recognises there to be a noise on the left of the engine but as far as he concerned "it's not as bad as the others that we have had come in for that TSB." So I said "well what is it then?". He couldn't answer. I am a fully qualified technician myself and now out of the motortrade I'm an engineer so I know a chain slap when I hear one, and I don't expect one on my 28k mile Toyota v8 with full main dealer service history. Especially when there's a known TSB to fit a superceded part number to cure my issue. Tech said "what if I authorise that repair and it's not that" to which I said "well what else is it going to be on a Toyota v8" is it going to be anything other than the TSB, I highly doubt it. Plus it's the exact same description of noise at the correct time it's meant to occur. Where do I stand. Lexus uk wanted the dealerships side of the story and then get back to me. I told him book time is 6.3hours and he told me last one took 20hours to do so it feels like they fobbing me off because Lexus only pay them 6.3 hours for the job. I have a video of it making the noise. The noise alway occurs but some days it's louder than others. Unfortunately it was one of the quiet days today when the  tech listened but he recognised a noise. Where do I stand and why won't they just do it. They should be paying me to keep such a fine example of a car on the road. Did I mention it's still under warranty. The point is proving it's the chain tensioner but how on earth am I going to do that. I know it is but he doesn't want to commit. My car has a part fitted with a design flaw. Lexus issue a tsb for the part after experiencing my exact symptoms. 
thanks for your time. Anyone got anywhere with Lexus uk in other issues and what was the deciding factor for them to warranty work. I would like to get the car independently inspected but don't know who would be authorised enough for them to notice. Thanks in advance any advice helpful when fighting these battles with manufacturers. 

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EG-0031L-0516.pdf 112.98 kB · 4 downloads

I guess this is why they usually don't let customers interact directly with the techs, he seems to be getting a bit defensive, and bringing up his grievances with the time it takes and such as if that's your concern seems a bit inappropriate. Maybe you should try a different angle like discussing it more with the service manager as you don't want it to be too personal between you and the tech. He's probably quite overworked and stressed, so try to diffuse the pressure a bit. Tell them you're not in a rush, but you're concerned about your car which you feel is displaying the exact symptoms from the TSB and you'd like to book it in for another look. Sometimes a bit of persistence is key as it shows you're not just going to go away. If they still push back and you really want to dig your heels in you can ask them who do you need to speak to to make a formal complaint.

Although, if you've already escalated it to Lexus UK it might be best to wait and see what happens. Or offer to cover the cost of the labour while they investigate, to be reimbursed if they can verify the issue and cover it under warranty (I doubt they would ever agree to this, but it might force them to take the issue more seriously if you're offering to put money down).

[Lexusisf]

7 hours ago, Rob RCF said:

I guess this is why they usually don't let customers interact directly with the techs, he seems to be getting a bit defensive, and bringing up his grievances with the time it takes and such as if that's your concern seems a bit inappropriate. Maybe you should try a different angle like discussing it more with the service manager as you don't want it to be too personal between you and the tech. He's probably quite overworked and stressed, so try to diffuse the pressure a bit. Tell them you're not in a rush, but you're concerned about your car which you feel is displaying the exact symptoms from the TSB and you'd like to book it in for another look. Sometimes a bit of persistence is key as it shows you're not just going to go away. If they still push back and you really want to dig your heels in you can ask them who do you need to speak to to make a formal complaint.

Although, if you've already escalated it to Lexus UK it might be best to wait and see what happens. Or offer to cover the cost of the labour while they investigate, to be reimbursed if they can verify the issue and cover it under warranty (I doubt they would ever agree to this, but it might force them to take the issue more seriously if you're offering to put money down).

Thankyou for your reply. Despite the poor service I have received and my deep frustrations I won't name and shame the dealer just yet. Nothing wrong with the customers talking to the techs, everyone makes mistakes. I think the problem for them is i'm not a 68 year old, hard of hearing ex banker executive with no mechanical knowledge that goes in when the chain tensioner is louder than the stereo. Leading to the techs excuse, "It's not as loud as the others we had in regarding this tsb". Probably because most Lexus owners don't expect anything sinister on a 28k mile Toyota v8 that starts and drive still perfectly fine. As a technician I've seen faults of this nature, they start mild and get progressively worse, hence the majority don't see this until 80k on these engines. But some sooner. Already escalated the case because the tech said "you won't changed my mind on this". So I think that's concrete for me to go above him. The dealer will have to escalate it their end and will be sending for someone from technical, head office with diagnostic listening equipment. Not that you need any of that you just need a good ear and a fundamental mechanical understanding of engines. But if they want to go to that effort i will be more than happy to take the car back.  I offered on the phone to Lexus uk in first full explanation  "change the tensioner for the superseded part under the tsb issues I'm having and if it fixes it, you pay if it doesn't I'll pay, that's how confident I am. " but this was only the initial phone call and she of course listened to my complaint but didn't know who I was at that point as it was the first time I raised this. She couldn't understand herself if there's a TSB AND it's under warranty AND there's a chance it could be the tensioner why they didn't just do it.  I'll await her reply. I just can't believe my car is displaying exact symptoms of a tsb and the tech clearly doesn't want to go back on his initial word when he couldn't replicate the noise for what ever reason.  I would be reluctant to commit if the job is 20hours real world time and the dealer only get 6.3 hours paid from Lexus. But that shouldn't mean you ignore a blatant fault. 

[08ISF]

I wouldn't waste any more time with Lexus Customer Services, they'll just bat you right back to the dealer and it will go nowhere. Write (you cannot email) to their MD. Details are on the website. In my experience, with Lexus and most others, if a missive comes down from the MD's office  for something to "go away" it generally goes away, to your benefit. I am not surprised that the dealer is being difficult. Lexus dealers have become a lot more  hard nosed about warranty claims over the last few years. After all ,they are piggy in the middle between the customers and Lexus UK who have now brought in a warranty that has no perceptible finance behind it apart from possibly increased business and a small uplift in servicing costs.  I am sure Lexus will come around once they see you are not going to let it go. Alternatively as you suggest, try another dealer who might have a better handle on it.

Just my opinion

[Spock66]

5 hours ago, Lexusisf said:

I would be reluctant to commit if the job is 20hours real world time and the dealer only get 6.3 hours paid from Lexus.

I wonder what rate Lexus UK pay though, the full retail price or some other rate?

If it's the full retail rate should easily cover the costs even if it takes 20-hours to do the work.

[Lexusisf]

32 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

I wonder what rate Lexus UK pay though, the full retail price or some other rate?

If it's the full retail rate should easily cover the costs even if it takes 20-hours to do the work.

Who knows mate. Maybe their workshop is rushed off their feet and the last thing they want is a warranty job that may take up a ramp for 3 days. However this of course isn't my problem, and every time I drive the car it's not going to get any better. I'm willing to go to motoring ombudsman if it's not rectified. But I really don't think it will come to that. I will hopefully hear from Lexus UK, they have asked for the videos so they can send to technical team. It would save them a trip if they were to look at those. It's obvious to anyone who knows timing chain engines it's slapping chain on the left vs silent on the right. Hopefully their system will have video evidence of said phenomenon. That would be helpful.  Then they can listen to them back to back and deduce it is indeed the TSB issue. Otherwise they can bring the cavalry down. Just feel liked I'm being fobbed off by the dealer until it's out of warranty. Which is of course what dealers do but I didn't think Lexus were like that. It all comes down to what the master tech says and if you disagree you simply have to go higher. Failing that as said above I'll write to the MD but it's so obvious my car has this known fault I don't think it will come to that. The tech thought I would just go away I think and he would hear nothing more on the matter. Pity him. Maybe if I told him I'm taking it higher he would say "leave it with us sir for another day then i can spend abit more time on it and make sure it's not this tsb" and call me back "oh great news we are going to authorise repair on this occasion" . But I didn't, he wasn't going to budge, he didn't even ask to see my video of when it was REALLY loud to which I said I have. Lost my faith abit with that dealer now. Hopefully they are signed up to hear and see this thread. Being offered all the Nespresso's In the world doesn't make up for this kind of service. I still won't name and shame though until its reached a point of impass. They have been decent the once and only time I have used that dealer but it was only a service, I mean I dropped it off with 34miles range got it back with 2 but I didn't grumble. 

[BillNick]

Reading this I suspect it's all down to the fact that the tech can only do the TSB in 20hrs.

Whilst you are waiting on Lexus UK, try another dealer.

[ubersonic]

On 11/3/2022 at 4:32 PM, Lexusisf said:

Please if anyone can help me. I'm putting a case forward for Lexus to repair my vehicle under warranty (10 year Lexus relax ends next year.) 

Hi Buddy,

I had this work done last December at cost, first of all if you need a video of the issue in general to send to Lexus so they know what the issue/sound is there is a great one here:
 

As for time, they are correct that 20 hours is more realistic than the time in the TSB (the master tech at my local dealer straight up said that the TSB time was impossible and must be a mistake).  But they probably know that it can go even higher than that if they run into issues.  I.E in my case they ran into age related issues reinstalling part of the exhaust which added time.

I think one of the big problems you're running into here is that Toyota/Lexus never issued a recall for the issue, and only issued a TSB in Europe so that if a customer wanted the issue fixing at cost they wouldn't replace the tensioner with the same part.  They may be dragging their heels over doing a £2k warranty job that they don't recognise as an actual fault, which is pretty lame on their part.

His excuse of it not being as loud as others he has seen is terrible IMO.  Of course it normally sounds louder, because people don't normally learn they have the issue until it's so loud somebody outside the vehicle mentions it.  If you don't know about the issue and aren't actively checking for it then you're not going to hear it unless you're stopped with a cold engine, your windows down and radio off.  I only found out I had the issue because a friend was parking the trolley as we were leaving Costco and he heard it from outside the car.

 

[Lexusisf]

6 hours ago, ubersonic said:

Hi Buddy,

I had this work done last December at cost, first of all if you need a video of the issue in general to send to Lexus so they know what the issue/sound is there is a great one here:
 

As for time, they are correct that 20 hours is more realistic than the time in the TSB (the master tech at my local dealer straight up said that the TSB time was impossible and must be a mistake).  But they probably know that it can go even higher than that if they run into issues.  I.E in my case they ran into age related issues reinstalling part of the exhaust which added time.

I think one of the big problems you're running into here is that Toyota/Lexus never issued a recall for the issue, and only issued a TSB in Europe so that if a customer wanted the issue fixing at cost they wouldn't replace the tensioner with the same part.  They may be dragging their heels over doing a £2k warranty job that they don't recognise as an actual fault, which is pretty lame on their part.

His excuse of it not being as loud as others he has seen is terrible IMO.  Of course it normally sounds louder, because people don't normally learn they have the issue until it's so loud somebody outside the vehicle mentions it.  If you don't know about the issue and aren't actively checking for it then you're not going to hear it unless you're stopped with a cold engine, your windows down and radio off.  I only found out I had the issue because a friend was parking the trolley as we were leaving Costco and he heard it from outside the car.

 

Thanks you for your reply. I haven't heard off Lexus uk, in the meantime it has been booked in elsewhere for a second opinion. Your right. It's all a shambles. I heard it more because it does it every time I start my car in my otherwise quiet garage, window down. Your right You don't expect to hear it. Was it around 2k then? A different dealer told me 800-900. But they might not have done one before. Although I'm not sure why the exhaust has to come off as it's nowhere near the chain front cover that has to come off. 

[ubersonic]

17 hours ago, Lexusisf said:

Thanks you for your reply. I haven't heard off Lexus uk, in the meantime it has been booked in elsewhere for a second opinion. Your right. It's all a shambles. I heard it more because it does it every time I start my car in my otherwise quiet garage, window down. Your right You don't expect to hear it. Was it around 2k then? A different dealer told me 800-900. But they might not have done one before. Although I'm not sure why the exhaust has to come off as it's nowhere near the chain front cover that has to come off. 

The rounded prices for the work was: Labour 1120, tensioner assy 130, tensioner assy 110, 2x chain sub-assy 320, seal packing 85, which came to 1760 before VAT.

I had both tensioners and chains replaced, because that's what everyone else does (and what the mechanics recommend) and for the added cost I didn't want to be the first guy to just replace the flawed tensioner and see what happens.

That doesn't include gaskets, nuts, bolts, O-rings, brackets, which are shown separate and I can't tell how many are associated with the job as per the book and how many were needed to be changed due to my car being 13 years old and having covered 123,381 miles of UK roads.  Oh I also had the water pump done as that was about due and was essentially labour free as it was fully accessible.

The reason the exhaust had to be split between the manifolds/ centre sections was because by the book this is an engine out job.  It can be done by removing the radiator/etc and attacking the engine from the front as per some DIY YouTube videos, but it seems most mechanics aren't satisfied with that cramped level of access (I think this may be why the time in the TSB is grossly lower than what the actual technicians take).

[Lexusisf]

1 hour ago, ubersonic said:

The rounded prices for the work was: Labour 1120, tensioner assy 130, tensioner assy 110, 2x chain sub-assy 320, seal packing 85, which came to 1760 before VAT.

I had both tensioners and chains replaced, because that's what everyone else does (and what the mechanics recommend) and for the added cost I didn't want to be the first guy to just replace the flawed tensioner and see what happens.

That doesn't include gaskets, nuts, bolts, O-rings, brackets, which are shown separate and I can't tell how many are associated with the job as per the book and how many were needed to be changed due to my car being 13 years old and having covered 123,381 miles of UK roads.  Oh I also had the water pump done as that was about due and was essentially labour free as it was fully accessible.

The reason the exhaust had to be split between the manifolds/ centre sections was because by the book this is an engine out job.  It can be done by removing the radiator/etc and attacking the engine from the front as per some DIY YouTube videos, but it seems most mechanics aren't satisfied with that cramped level of access (I think this may be why the time in the TSB is grossly lower than what the actual technicians take).

Perfect thanks for the insight. I imagine under warranty they will just replace the tensioner. Which to be honest I would be happy with. Toyota chains never fail and for the extra level of possible fxckups I would rather them just replace the faulty tensioner. If I was paying on a 120k and older engine I would be doing the same as you. Thanks again. 

[Irish ISF]

How common is this issue? I'm about to place an order for some headers and possibly a differential but I don't fancy being hit with an unexpected bill for this repair. 

[ubersonic]

5 hours ago, Irish ISF said:

How common is this issue? I'm about to place an order for some headers and possibly a differential but I don't fancy being hit with an unexpected bill for this repair. 

It's a guaranteed age/mileage related issue on all ISFs, and on RCFs/GSFs produced prior to May 2016.

What age/mileage it arrives, nobody can really say.

[Lexusisf]

13 hours ago, Irish ISF said:

How common is this issue? I'm about to place an order for some headers and possibly a differential but I don't fancy being hit with an unexpected bill for this repair. 

Some say "they all do it it's normal" and "mines has done it for the last 120k no problem" but I personally would rather it be seems to. If I was paying for it, would I bother? I'd do it myself most probably just for piece of mind. It's only during engine warm up idling like backing out of my garage in gear. Also mine only does it in the summer or garaged! Must be some correlation with oil viscosity. Which makes sense because lots of people change the weight of oil used and it makes a 'huge difference'. Oil grade on invoice changes every time Lexus see it for a service so I genuinely think they just stick in what ever bulk oil supply reel is closest to their hand.
i wouldn't worry they never seem to "fail". Usually these cars only need exhaust manifolds, early ones water pump before the redesign and valley plate re-seal which is rare in the uk.  I would say it's not mileage or age related, all isf's have the old style tensioner from factory. the tsb isn't for the U.S and they do 200k+ miles in their isf's ticking away. 

 

 

UPDATE- Second Lexus dealer hear the noise are carrying out the work under warranty apart from some gasket's and seals, engine oil, coolant etc that apparently I'll have to pay for. I'm yet to receive confirmation of cost but will study the part numbers and gauge myself whether it should be covered under the tsb or not. Basically in my opinion, if you have to take it off for the tsb, it should be covered. I wouldn't mind paying extra but if something nowhere related is being changed for no reason I would rather not touch it on a 28k miles car. No doubt they Will charge me an absolute fortune for the rest to help compensate for the job. Sad it only has a few hundred miles on the engine oil currently.  2 years ago another dealer tried charging me £180 for engine oil. No labour, no filter, no sump plug washer just the oil.  Couldn't believe it. They halfed it after querying it. Do they expect Lexus customer's to just hand over their card? It was only standard Castrol magnetec 5w30.  Anyway will see what they come back with. 🙂

[RichGS11]

18 hours ago, Irish ISF said:

How common is this issue? I'm about to place an order for some headers and possibly a differential but I don't fancy being hit with an unexpected bill for this repair. 

Never heard of it until now. One of those lottery issues that either gets you or doesn't.

[steve2006]

Timing chains were fine on OHV engines with a short chain run but ran into problems with OHC units due to the now extended runs resulting in chain stretch.

All change to belts with quality metal bearing idlers and tensioner.

Now back to multiple chain set up with plastic guides and tensioner. No matter how well lubricated and the quality of the plastic it will never win pressed against a moving metal chain.

I watched a YouTube video the other day involving a Range Rover timing chain tensioner failure caught just in time.

You can cut through butter with a plastic knife but sheet steel is another matter.

 

 

[ubersonic]

6 hours ago, steve2006 said:

No matter how well lubricated and the quality of the plastic it will never win pressed against a moving metal chain.

The funny thing with the F cars TSB is the plastic guides in the F's can (and have) last for half a million miles, it's a mechanical metal part that fails.

It's this little part for anyone wondering:
 

 

[Lexusisf]

7 hours ago, steve2006 said:

Timing chains were fine on OHV engines with a short chain run but ran into problems with OHC units due to the now extended runs resulting in chain stretch.

All change to belts with quality metal bearing idlers and tensioner.

Now back to multiple chain set up with plastic guides and tensioner. No matter how well lubricated and the quality of the plastic it will never win pressed against a moving metal chain.

I watched a YouTube video the other day involving a Range Rover timing chain tensioner failure caught just in time.

You can cut through butter with a plastic knife but sheet steel is another matter.

 

 

A Range Rover issue in a Lexus/Toyota group 😂. Let's not scare anyone unnecessarily with ambiguous information. In other cars it's pretty common for tensioners to fail completely, separately chains and guides wear or break prematurely to the point where the tensioner can't extend any further. Creating a chain slap. This can happen at low mileage normally due to poor geometry design of the whole pulley and guide system as-well as, I suspect modern extended oil services haven't helped also. But I Haven't heard of a single chain guide or chain wear incident on these engines yet or any other toyota iteration UR series at unreasonable miles yet.  My cars no exception. A lot have 250k plus miles on Club Lexus, original engine and chains. Regular servicing with correct oil obviously vital but I imagine some of those are neglected and still performing. The problem is 'only' a faulty LEFT tensioner design in the 2UR GSE. The fault isn't the tensioner fully extended due to chain guide wear in our instances, the plunger hangs back. Even with the ratchet mechanism engaged it still should have some movement relative to oil pressure.  This isn't chain wear like all the BMWs, vauxhalls, Nissans and vw group cars etc I've had to witness first hand as a tech, Or there wouldn't be people driving for the last 120k with this same audible symptom, the intermittent ticking noise that disappears when warm and driving. When the tensioner alone gets replaced with the superseded part number it's perfectly quiet. There's a few before and after videos. I'll ask for my old parts and if I get time I will dissect the old tensioner style and measure some clearances relative to oil pressure fluid dynamics and thermal expansion as I'm curious to see what they actually changed.  Toyota clearly messed up I'm not denying that. But at least I'm getting it sorted under warranty on a 9.5 year old car. I've seen timing chain fail at sub 35k all the German manufacturers just wave bye bye at 4 years old and out of warranty. Or a "goodwill gesture if you pay 6.5k for a new engine with us we'll discount £500 labour. 😂.  Thankfully we don't have either this actually same issue or warranty package. Although they did try and fob me off to start with saying it's not covered under Lexus relax. Because it hasn't actually failed yet. But the service manager is mechanically inclined so I imagine he said to them "well would you rather it fail completely". We obviously know that's not going to happen, but the guys and girls at the computer In head office authorising relax repairs probably doesn't have any mechanical knowledge and just reads terms off a sheet. 

[Jgtcracer]

10 hours ago, Lexusisf said:

A Range Rover issue in a Lexus/Toyota group 😂. Let's not scare anyone unnecessarily with ambiguous information. 

The wife’s Range Rover get a new chain at 2 years old!! Sounds like the Lexus problem is far less of an issue.  Are there any documented instances of complete tensioner failure causing further damage?

My ISF was a little tappy on start up but soon quietened down, never caused any problems.

[Lexusisf]

5 hours ago, Jgtcracer said:

The wife’s Range Rover get a new chain at 2 years old!! Sounds like the Lexus problem is far less of an issue.  Are there any documented instances of complete tensioner failure causing further damage?

My ISF was a little tappy on start up but soon quietened down, never caused any problems.

Not a single full failure of this tensioner reported on the 2ur gse that I can find. A guy in U.S did do his chains for being noisy at 130k miles but had like 7 owners and no service history so was probably down to neglect.   Seen plenty of vw tsi's and Nissans under 3 years old needing chains back in 2013-2018. It's almost like most manufacturers they gave up making cars reliable knowing electric will be coming so let's not but any money into refining what we got now. At least Toyota aren't that bad. Yet. 
A lot of people think the isf exhaust manifolds leaking is the chain but it's a completely different kind of noise. But both in time with engine speed. And both when cold. Noise is a different clatter though.