E10

[J Henderson]

Don't forget the weather...

A couple of weeks ago, my car was always thick with frost and took forever to warm up. The fuel economy suffered very noticeably as a result.

This week, it's been back to about normal due to the milder temperatures.

BTW, has everyone noticed how much the fuel prices have dropped recently?

This is the cheapest I've seen. Almost pre-Ukraine invasion levels.

 

[m4rkw]

Ethanol carries 33% less energy than petrol so you'll lose 3.3% of mileage compared to E0 fuel. The difference between E5 and E10 should be about half that, so I guess around 1.65%?

I'm unconvinced of the environmental benefits since cars will just burn more fuel to compensate for the energy loss.

[Mr Vlad]

WOW 136.9 per litre. Not seen that price for quite a while. I thought the BP nearish me was OK at 146.9 last week. 

[Bluemarlin]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

I make out placebo out of it 🙂 

E10 is not as good as E5, but not 6MPG different. It should be different by ~1.5%

Yes but Esso's E5 is really E0 as there's no ethanol in it.

But you're saying my car psychologically reacted to it? Hmmm, I suppose I could test that by telling the car I'm putting in E5, while really putting in E10, and see if it still gives me better mpg :):):)

The changes in temperature possibly had some effect, but most of my driving on E10 was also in milder temps, with only a couple of days in the freezing conditions.

[Mr Vlad]

Bill. Not all Esso E5 is zero ethanol. It clearly says that on its website. Love your 1st paragraph though oh so funny 🤣

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Bluemarlin said:

Yes but Esso's E5 is really E0 as there's no ethanol in it.

But you're saying my car psychologically reacted to it? Hmmm, I suppose I could test that by telling the car I'm putting in E5, while really putting in E10, and see if it still gives me better mpg :):):)

The changes in temperature possibly had some effect, but most of my driving on E10 was also in milder temps, with only a couple of days in the freezing conditions.

In which case the difference is 3%...

No not the car 😄 but I am guilty of that as well - you put premium 99 Octane expecting fuel savings, or you replace old sticking calliper, or have hydrogen carbon cleaning done and sub-cautiously you doing different driving, driving more carefully, more economically or coasting more... maybe just in general by accident maybe second-half of December is more quiet on the roads or temperature is higher, or you did less idling and fuel economy reflects that. So this is just the case of wrongly attributing causality... yes MPG improved since refuelling with with E5, but has it truly changed just because of fuel and nothing else?!

There is no mystery about ethanol, the way it works as a fuel is well understood and there is nothing miraculous there - ethanol has 30% less energy compared to petroleum, so if you burning 90/10 mixture it will either produce 3% less power, or it will burn 3% more of the fuel. In reality you get something in in between, but skewed towards less power rather than higher consumption. So realistically most people in most cars on most journeys should not see any noticeable difference in fuel consumption... averaged between 100s of tanks over long period of time car will consume slightly more E10, but little bit less than maximum 3%.

As I have mentioned in the past - I have long history running IS250 on E85... in fact most of Europeans does that. And 85% of ethanol is much more than 10% of ethanol, but even in such extreme cases the fuel consumption was not noticeably different. Theoretically one needs 25% more E85 to achieve same power, but at no point my fuel consumption was 25% higher. It was slightly higher maybe 5%, but not 25%. However, on autobahn I did notice that my top speed has dropped. When coming out of Poland on some Polish special premium 100 Octane fuel I could go all the way to ~138MPH relatively easily, but when I refuelled E85 in Germany suddenly car didn't really want to go beyond 125MPH, or at least it would struggle to accelerate past 125MPH and it was clear it was little bit down on power and I have noticed it multiple times... although on normal driving at normal speeds it is hard to tell, whereas on autobahn it was more measurably apparent.

So I am saying - there is difference between E10 and E5, but for it to be 25MPG>31MPG there has to be more in it, not just fuel.

[Bluemarlin]

I had seen that Vladimir, but I thought I read that was largely in Scotland/ the North and the far SW, so assumed I was getting E0.

There's no doubt a lot of merit in what you're saying Linas, and so maybe driving style/conditions had some impact, so I'll reserve judgment until I've gone through a tankfull.

Maybe the fact that I'd gone from regular to premium might have had an affect too? Although I have no idea what,  if any difference that makes.

Equally it could just have been poor fuel from Sainsbury's as I don't think I've noticed that much of a change when I've put in E10 in the past from other sources.

[McShmoopy]

Just did a round trip from nottingham to London and back, did fill up at Costco derby the night before with the additive and with some central London driving hit a cool 38.5mpg tank average. Could be better but some speeding up also but largely cruise control at 70mph on the speedometer 

[AFlex]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:58 PM, McShmoopy said:

Just did a round trip from nottingham to London and back, did fill up at Costco derby the night before with the additive and with some central London driving hit a cool 38.5mpg tank average. Could be better but some speeding up also but largely cruise control at 70mph on the speedometer 

That is very very decent indeed! Was this 70mph on the speedo, or measured via GPS? I find there can be as much as a 5mpg drop between the two as you are sort of reaching the peak speed beyond which aerodynamic drag massively comes into play. Our cars do have huge wing mirrors 

Also loving all the high mileage IS's, still going strong 

[AFlex]

On 12/23/2022 at 4:16 PM, J Henderson said:

Don't forget the weather...

A couple of weeks ago, my car was always thick with frost and took forever to warm up. The fuel economy suffered very noticeably as a result.

This week, it's been back to about normal due to the milder temperatures.

BTW, has everyone noticed how much the fuel prices have dropped recently?

This is the cheapest I've seen. Almost pre-Ukraine invasion levels.

 

Holy moly where was this? You sure it wasn't a misprice? And this is Esso not Asda or Morrisons!

[m4rkw]

I've seen Esso consistently lower than the supermarkets. Not seen any fuel that cheap though.

[McShmoopy]

1 hour ago, AFlex said:

That is very very decent indeed! Was this 70mph on the speedo, or measured via GPS? I find there can be as much as a 5mpg drop between the two as you are sort of reaching the peak speed beyond which aerodynamic drag massively comes into play. Our cars do have huge wing mirrors 

Also loving all the high mileage IS's, still going strong 

70 based on the Speedo so more like 66ish mph in reality! I have noticed when I put the speedo to 80mph (74mph on GPS) my economy does tank but I weigh up economy or time saved in those situations! Will hopefully get this baby to 200k with regular servicing 🤞🏼

[J Henderson]

3 hours ago, AFlex said:

Holy moly where was this? You sure it wasn't a misprice? And this is Esso not Asda or Morrisons!

Galashiels, in the Scottish Borders.

All the filling stations in that town are selling unleaded for under £1.40, so a bit of a local price war going on. That Esso garage though is an independently owned one and traditionally always very cheap.

[Malc1]

Tesco today at Gillingham Kent is E10 138.9 plus Tesco points worth 1p a ltr maybe ?

Malc

[Sundance]

18 hours ago, m4rkw said:

I've seen Esso consistently lower than the supermarkets. Not seen any fuel that cheap though.

Also don't forget that ESSO are included in the NECTAR shopping points scheme so when you have an accumulation of shopping & fuel points (don't know how many ) you can fill up with a discount of 5p per litre 👏 !

[Mr Vlad]

Dya know what. Yes 5p a litre off. 20 litres is £1. 40 litres is £2. I don't find that a good enough money off thing.

[Sundance]

4 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Dya know what. Yes 5p a litre off. 20 litres is £1. 40 litres is £2. I don't find that a good enough money off thing.

Of course if you prefer you can pay full price, but to me all discounts add up and it beats constantly getting kicked in the plums on the forecourt 😉.

EDIT ... BTW, I don't have any supermarket fuel option near me 🙁  .

[AFlex]

On 12/26/2022 at 9:12 PM, McShmoopy said:

70 based on the Speedo so more like 66ish mph in reality! I have noticed when I put the speedo to 80mph (74mph on GPS) my economy does tank but I weigh up economy or time saved in those situations! Will hopefully get this baby to 200k with regular servicing 🤞🏼

Regular oil changes and you'll see 400k no problem 

[AFlex]

9 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Tesco today at Gillingham Kent is E10 138.9 plus Tesco points worth 1p a ltr maybe ?

Malc

Might have to head down to Kent - Tesco Bow (Stratford) still stuck at 148.9... 

[Malc1]

my local Tesco is still operating the local cartel with Morrisons and BP at about 14p a ltr more 

About time the Govt stopped this cartel nonsense again, having relaxed the rules during covid times and not yet re-addressed the " against the customer fraud " going on 

But there we are, the higher the price the greater the Govt tax take on Duty etc ....  no incentive to ameliorate the pricing in favour of customers eh !

Malc

[Malc1]

5 hours ago, Malc1 said:

my local Tesco is still operating the local cartel

apologies to Tesco  .  their Sheerness fuel goldmine is now only 10p more expensive than the Tescos Gillingham one I filled the Honda with yesterday on the way home from Woburn ........ Centre Parcs  ..  both just a short drive from home

Malc

[McShmoopy]

Did a round trip from Nottingham to Heathrow Terminal 3, managed to achieve a very excellent 43MPG there and back doing cruise control at exactly 70 on the Speedo (64-66 according to Waze). 42.7mpg on my way there and 43 by the time I got back. 

Not bad considering I did waste about 20 mins being stuck in terminal 3 short stay car park with the engine running! Atleast I didn’t have to pay parking as their system was down 👍🏼