New car issues. Help needed please.

[Pete-r]

Hi I'm writing this really upset, frustrated and honestly fed up.

I bought my approved used IS two weeks ago from a dealer who I won't name, and the car was veering left at speed on the way home so we agreed to get it in for tracking.

They checked it yesterday and say while the alignment is clearly out, the adjustable bits (track rods etc I'm not technical) are seized despite their efforts with heat and whatever tools they use, and have told me they won't continue to address the issue because it's not financially worthwhile as it means possibly changing steering or suspension parts.

They are offering me my money back but I want to keep the car though it's not much fun to drive veering to the left constantly. I've sold my old car so would be in a mess and need a car for transporting a disabled relative.

I raised with Lexus UK today, and the dealer have yet to call me back since breaking the news to me lunchtime. My point to them both is either the warranty covers, or they missed it during the multi point check which specifically mentions the parts they refer to. I don't want to quarrel with them I just want the car fixed.

Has anyone got any advice from similar scenarios?

Cheers.

[ColinBarber]

This is an unfortunate situation. I suspect Lexus UK won't approve a warranty repair because the car has to be fault free to placed under warranty (and wheel alignment isn't covered under warranty anyway) - so it is the dealer who will have to pay for the repair, not Lexus, hence why they don't want to.

In a way it is a good thing this has been uncovered now. If you needed to get wheel alignment adjusted in the future, you could have ended up with an expensive repair bill.

[Pete-r]

It has an 'extended' warranty on it, the dealer confirmed this, but they said because the issue has likely been there a while the warranty would probably say no. I think the multi point check should have picked it up but I don't know what on earth to do. 😞

[Herbie]

5 minutes ago, Pete-r said:

check should have picked it up but I don't know what on earth to do

You really only have two choices - either keep the car and be prepared to chuck money at it or get your money back and look for a better example. I know what I would do.

[royoftherovers]

4 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

This is an unfortunate situation. I suspect Lexus UK won't approve a warranty repair because the car has to be fault free to placed under warranty (and wheel alignment isn't covered under warranty anyway) - so it is the dealer who will have to pay for the repair, not Lexus, hence why they don't want to.

In a way it is a good thing this has been uncovered now. If you needed to get wheel alignment adjusted in the future, you could have ended up with an expensive repair bill.

Has the vehicle been bought from an official Lexus Dealer ?

Rgardless of the answer (which I feel is still extremely important) I am of the view that the Member-Peter, should take his money back, as he is entitled to do and put the whole unfortunate exercise behind him immediately.

The questions surrounding a possibly sad outcome for the Lexus Dealership, involving many aspects of this case, are for the future and for other Organisations to consider.

 

[Pete-r]

My issue with a refund is a tight budget and I can't be without a car so can't spend a long time looking. I need a car for hospital appointments which happen every single week.

Roy yes it's a Lexus main dealer who have sold it as an approved used vehicle 

[Spock66]

42 minutes ago, Pete-r said:

They checked it yesterday and say while the alignment is clearly out, the adjustable bits (track rods etc I'm not technical) are seized despite their efforts with heat and whatever tools they use

Replacing track rod ends should not be a huge cost, the parts are around £50 each from Lexus Parts Direct (assuming it's the IS250 in your details).

[Vintagesixtysix]

They’ve obviously made a firm decision to go no further as Colin has explained…. It’s going to come out of their local pocket.

Could be worth a try to go and ask as this is an unfortunate situation on both sides if they have another vehicle in the dealership or even your current  car (if it’s safe) that you could drive for an agreed time (two weeks?) to find another vehicle.

Not perfect either way.

[Pete-r]

Yes Spock it's an IS250 - 2010.

The service manager was talking about track rods being stuck but said it could be a rabbit hole needing a new steering rack!?!?

[royoftherovers]

16 minutes ago, Pete-r said:

My issue with a refund is a tight budget and I can't be without a car so can't spend a long time looking. I need a car for hospital appointments which happen every single week.

Roy yes it's a Lexus main dealer who have sold it as an approved used vehicle 

The implications are huge for the Dealership and for Lexus UK..

If receiving the money back is not going to help you, then meet with the top guy at the Dealership(often called the Dealer Principal) and remind him that he has a Statutory Responsibility to repair the vehicle as circumstances are such that you are unable to simply receive your money back. Tell him that you want him to repair the vehicle at his cost and that you expect him to provide you with a loan car at no cost to you.

Keep a written record of all meetings with the Dealership and of correspondence conducted. 

If he will not play ball, then ask a Solicitor to offer you further advice.

Good luck.

[Spock66]

4 minutes ago, Pete-r said:

The service manager was talking about track rods being stuck but said it could be a rabbit hole needing a new steering rack!?!?

Yes the nuts rust and are a bugger to get undone, but given the cost of new parts hardly worth the labour of messing about. There is absolutely no reason why a new steering rack would be required (which would be expensive) unless they know something they are not telling you.

[Pete-r]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'll speak to them in the morning.

My frustration is that they have in my opinion missed things which should have been spotted in the 150 point check (it's named in the steering section). So if they miss anything I fear they will refund the buyer and, potentially, fix at cost then retail the car for more money. If they retailed at a higher cost that's my look out, but if they have undercut themselves I think it's unfair to get out of the sale like this. Honestly with everything going on in life (I traded down due to money worries) can't take the stress and have been very upset tonight.

[Pete-r]

4 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

Yes the nuts rust and are a bugger to get undone, but given the cost of new parts hardly worth the labour of messing about. 

For 100 per pair I'll happily buy them if they can fit. I need more detail on the issues.

[Spock66]

1 minute ago, Pete-r said:

For 100 per pair I'll happily buy them if they can fit. I need more detail on the issues.

Yes it's not a huge cost but I would suggest you don't mention that as an option, stick to your guns that it should be repaired at their cost, once you offer to pay you are the one going down the rabbit hole.

[Bluemarlin]

2 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

The implications are huge for the Dealership and for Lexus UK..

If receiving the money back is not going to help you, then meet with the top guy at the Dealership(often called the Dealer Principal) and remind him that he has a Statutory Responsibility to repair the vehicle as circumstances are such that you are unable to simply receive your money back.

I don't believe that is the dealer's statutory responsibility. In the first 30  days the buyer can reject the car rather than accept a repair, but I don't think he can insist on a repair instead of a refund. So, as I understand it, the dealer is perfectly entitled to take the car back and refund the customer's money, if he feels a repair isn't cost effective.

Look at it this way, if the engine blew up, there's no way a dealer would be expected to supply and fit a new one over simply refunding the customer and taking the car back.

I'm not usually a huge fan of car dealers, and I sympathise with the OP's position, but I don't believe his personal/financial circumstances are the dealer's responsibilty. Basically, the car's faulty and so the dealer has offered a full refund. As awkward as that may be for the OP, it doesn't seem unreasonable.

Personally I'd rather have my money back than risk the dealer trying to cut costs on a repair, in order not to lose money on the deal.

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, Spock66 said:

Replacing track rod ends should not be a huge cost, the parts are around £50 each from Lexus Parts Direct (assuming it's the IS250 in your details).

Yes that is correct - I have mine done for exactly same reason, the track road ends were corroded and could not be adjusted, paid something like £40 for each in Toyota dealership, it is not Lexus specific part, so it isn't even expensive. I think all in it costed £160 with alignment. Somehow I can't see how ~£200 max job could make repair unviable. 

I would probably mention that to them and just say - "look, the parts are like £100, so there is no excuse not to fix it and the car return is not an option because I need it daily". Unless they are willing to give you courtesy car until you find something else (I doubt it). 

The only other consideration - maybe they know (have found) there is something bigger and the issue is not the track rod ends. I don't want to speculate, but maybe when tech started looking at what would have to be done to make fully satisfactory repair it turned out more work than one would initially think.

Sadly, as inconvenient as it sounds, they have already offered to take the car back, which is generally considered as "nuclear option" when it comes to statutory rights. So "by law" they doing everything right... it is still sounds unreasonable that they would take car back rather than replace basically rusted bolt, but I can't see any other leverage here... apart of trying to reason with them.

It is kind of sad that Lexus "used approved" really doesn't mean much anymore. This is not the first time people reporting that on here and I myself had less than satisfactory experience. Sure in my case they ended-up replacing everything free of charge, but not before I made a threat to take them to court for misseling. Basically, goes back to conclusion which was made on few threads now - buying used car from Lexus is the same as buying it from any independent place, inspection is must, test drive is must and everything must be agreed in writing, because whole "used approved million points check" is not worth the paper it is written on, it basically gets rubberstamped and marked all good.

[Linas.P]

7 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

I don't believe that is the dealer's statutory responsibility. In the first 30  days the buyer can reject the car rather than accept a repair, but I don't think he can insist on a repair instead of a refund. So, as I understand it, the dealer is perfectly entitled to take the car back and refund the customer's money, if he feels a repair isn't cost effective.

That is correct. Under statutory rights taking car back is the most they can offer, so it usually works other way around - dealer offers unsatisfactory repair and ultimately buyer has a right to reject it and return the car instead.

In theory if OP believe and can prove dealer actions were done in bad faith, or negligent, and damage can be proved, then it is possible to make claim in court. In theory - anyone can sue anyone for any reason, but it will be very hard to prove these damages in court, especially as dealer has agreed to take car back. In "fantasy world" I can see somebody getting rental car and then suing dealer for costs and then Sunday Times writing sad story about it (more like publicity stunt, than realistic action). So I think it is fair to say here - that is not realistic course of action and I would not advise to use this option.

I still think rational reasoning with dealer is best idea here. Even if they lose £500 in the end, it seems like in situation like this it would be reasonable for them to take responsibility rather than putting it all on customer, but one thing is very clear here - they will only do it in "good faith" as they are under no obligation here. So threatening them is unlikely to work.

[PCM]

Personally... and I know it's easy for me to say...

I'd return it. Sooner than later.

( I have found Uber convenient and cheap for needed journeys. )

Whoever had it before, part-exchanged etc., probably knew of this issue and maybe others?

Sometimes these 3,000 point checks are mostly checking the obvious... 

Best wishes for whatever you do...

[H3XME]

Exactly as said above. I would return it. 2010 IS250 from Lexus dealer must've not been cheap. You can get a car in a much better nick for cheaper off independent dealers. Shop off the condition, not the mileage. 

Few examples here:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209039410570

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210160780681

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208068521764

[Las Palmas]

Most of us in the forum think that get the money back is the best and maybe only option.

Agree with Linas that Lexus approval is not what we all hope it would be, and the reputation Lexus has is for something in the past. The present may make the reputation of Lexus less glamorous.

[royoftherovers]

59 minutes ago, PCM said:

Personally... and I know it's easy for me to say...

I'd return it. Sooner than later.

( I have found Uber convenient and cheap for needed journeys. )

Whoever had it before, part-exchanged etc., probably knew of this issue and maybe others?

Sometimes these 3,000 point checks are mostly checking the obvious... 

Best wishes for whatever you do...

Piers,

My initial response was to receive money back and put the episode down to experience.

The O.P.said that was not what he wanted So, I reacted to that.

There are huge  POTENTIAL implications for the Dealer, its Statutory Responsibilities and its Franchise relationship with Lexus U.K. on the basis of what the O.P. has told us.

[Moleman]

10 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

There are huge  POTENTIAL implications for the Dealer, its Statutory Responsibilities and its Franchise relationship with Lexus U.K. on the basis of what the O.P. has told us.

John, you are entirely correct, however, proving that maybe more difficult. The OP has already had the issue raised with Lexus UK. Unless they agree and help, not much to be done to push the dealer further. They have offered his money back. Legal requirement. 

If you take the legal route and prove they sold the car knowing the fault, likely best outcome, they apologise and offer your money back. A court would probably find that acceptable. How much would that cost?

Move on and find another car, this could end up taking a large amount of time and effort, for little or no different outcome.

Find another car, plenty out there. 

[PCM]

I think based on how Peter feels emotionally ( see OP ), I'd put my health and well-being first - whatever that decides.

 

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

Piers,

My initial response was to receive money back and put the episode down to experience.

The O.P.said that was not what he wanted So, I reacted to that.

There are huge  POTENTIAL implications for the Dealer, its Statutory Responsibilities and its Franchise relationship with Lexus U.K. on the basis of what the O.P. has told us.

Just what Linas said, Lexus is no longer what Lexus was. That is not what he said, but what I think what he said means. But I think that Lexus UK should be wealthy enough to get a satisfied new Lexus user that in time could lead to more satisfied Lexus users.

To me it seems that here, they are exposing and promoting Toyota and let Lexus be the exclusive second choice for us rich snobs. That is the feeling we get from them when coming to service here.

I feel sorry for you Peter, but I doubt that Lexus is interested in paying what it could cost to get a happy Lexus owner.

[NemesisUK]

Not Lexus UK but a dealer problem. 

My dealer took my car in Monday to adjust the off-centre steering wheel (noted when I purchased the car) they had the car on the ramps for 3hrs adjusting the suspension geometry. All sorted and no charge, I didn't even have to say anything.

So, I believe the problem sits with the dealership, not Lexus generally..

With regards to the OP's problem I think he should return the car get his money back and seek another dealer and car. Or take it to a tyre shop and get the tracking sorted, they deal with seized components all the time. He has more important things to worry about (weekly hospital appointments?)