Quieter/More comfortable cars...

[Supafly]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

There are so many comments and I value each and every one.  I will take the time to respond to each to make sure we don't lose any 'threads'.

[Supafly]

On 10/18/2022 at 6:35 PM, Malc1 said:

then I'm useless to ask really 🤣  .............. my Honda Legend is brilliantly bullet proof too and a great cruiser BUT I just can't get " right " in the seating by comparison to my Ls400

I've driven all sorts in my car sales business owning days

RR big Mercs Audi  Jaguars  ( older ) SUVs ..  fun cars like the WRX  Aston Martini  big and small BMWs  BUT for comfort and reliability and durability with relatively tiny expense well, then, the Ls400 just beats 'em all to it tbh

I'm quite OK popping the odd £grand into her as the miles and time pass by ...  at 242k miles and 50% of that mine over 11 years ............ 

so I've lots to personally compare my old Ls400 with but from a little time past ....... I'm not about to pop  £5 / 10/20/30/100k into a replacement car ............  but I would replace the LS 400 if she was a write-off or whatever 

I'm sure none of the above helps you to find a sensible alternative🙃 

Malc

It definitely does help Malc as it adds context to this discussion.  I also hope that I don't have to find an alternative for a long time! 🙂

[Supafly]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:07 PM, Stanwithaplan said:

I had a 2010 Audi A8 4.2 diesel twin turbo, which was a comfortable car for long journeys, but my current and previous LS400s always seemed to encourage me to alter my driving style, to  happily waft everywhere, the Audi never did that. The seats in the LS are much more comfortable than the A8 which "squeezed" too much. My old (again 2010) Lincoln Navigator was pretty good, better sound deadening than the older LS400, but again it never wafted. All my other cars have had hard suspensions.

BTW I'm also considering an LS600H for my UK car, but I'm going to need to test drive one first, because the CVT may not suit me, it seems its polarising in reviews?

The 4.2 tdi A8 was very high on my list before I bought my LS400.  The main thing that put me off was the difficulty in diy repairs as I would have only been able to afford a late D3 at that time and my experience of audi dealers with the 3.0 tdi A8 wasn't confidence inspiring (and expensive to boot).

I keep thinking of going and test driving an LS600h but haven't had the time to yet.

My brother did drive the 4.2 tdi A8 - courtesy while the 3.0 was having work done, it encouraged him to use the loud pedal and was bloody quick he said.  Also shocking how low you could get the mpg for a diesel!

Brother also had a chrysler voyager which had a lovely wafting drive, but he had issues when it came to getting parts and some electrical faults that took a while for the dealers to resolve.

[Supafly]

On 10/19/2022 at 9:12 AM, Cotswold Pete said:

Supafly,

Interesting to see your comments on Mercs, I recently had a go in SL500 and CL500, nice cars, certainly tighter than my 22 year old LS

But comfort was not there at all for me, and the noise seemed to be on a par with 400 with marginal less road noise.

Since having a hearing aid, i have noticed rattles (minor) in the LS, and the road noise on concrete surfaces more annoying.

I am in same boat in terms of my LS is old and needing work, but I really struggle to find a 'good value' replacement for my barge, might try a 460 just to see, but my plan (if wife does not stop me) is to get soemthing like a Toyota Auris as my daily and get the LS looking tiday and sorted as my 'I need a nice drive' motor.

My only other comment is a Range Rover is a quite car as is Audi Q7, just not sure I would want to own one even though both comfortable to drive for hours on end

I would love to have a range rover but I've seen so many by the roadside and have heard from others how many issues they seem to have.  Caveat to that being that you won't really hear about the many that have no issues as people are usually vocal about issues rather than satisfaction.

Which reminds me of the jaguar xf, an amazing car when working properly but again too many reliability issues for me to consider owning one.

[Supafly]

On 10/19/2022 at 10:12 AM, BigBoomer said:

The LS400 is the waft-meister but the LS430 is quieter, assuming you have the double-glazed glass.
At 70Mph about the only noise in my LS430 is tyre noise unless I have my foot to the floor when I can hear a nice muted V8 roar 
I do prefer the LS400 seats as the LS430 ones seem to lack adequate padding. They are good, but not as good!

For comfort nothing beat my 2001 S320CDI. I could sit in that for the full 900 mile range and still walk when I got out.
Shame it was such an unreliable piece of 💩.

I could be tempted by an LS460/600 but it would have to be a 2013 onwards for reliability,.... and I HATE that gopping awful Basking Shark grille.

The CVT isn't that bad. It takes a little getting used to but if you are used to older "slushbox" automatics you already understand that rpm and road speed are not directly related.
CVTs are just an extension of that. If you want to go faster, push the pedal. Yes, it will hold constant rpm whilst accelerating because the gearing is always at peak efficiency and it  is constantly changing the gear ratio to give optimum acceleration for your throttle position. They are also not as reliable, and more expensive to service.

 

Thank you for your invaluable insight having owned both.

I've also put many thousand miles on the same model s class, the only thing I'd add is that it managed to be taught and waft at the same time which meant you could more confidently go round bends.  Not to say that you can't in the LS400, it actually has a lot of grip, it's just that you have to overcome the initial uneasy feeling of body roll when you push it.

Up to 60mph the LS400 is noticeably better, above that speed I would say the 2001 s320 is quieter but the LS400 seat gets my vote too over the S class admittedly very good armchair.

[Supafly]

On 10/19/2022 at 6:49 PM, GEN said:

As a Ls400 and Ls430 previous owner, and a current Ls600hl owner, I confirm that the Ls400 has the best ride and the most comfortable seats of all three.  The problem with the Ls400 now is that parts are no longer available from Lexus/Toyota (I needed 2 solenoids to keep my transmission going but.....no luck) so while maintaining it (with aftermarket parts) you're slowly degrading the car... 

I'm really grateful for this viewpoint as I don't think I've found comments online from owners of each model.

I've been fortunate that every part I've needed in my 4+ years of ownership I've been able to buy oem from either Lexus/Toyota directly or from Amayama online.  Amayama does require some knowledge of how to navigate the parts catalogue and you do run the risk of ordering the wrong part but with a bit of diligence and cross referencing I've been able to get exactly what I need every time.  This might not always be the case which is why I started the thread to see what viable alternatives there are to our LS400.

Naturally I would first look to Lexus as a replacement and it would be great if you could share some more of your observations.  Your progression through the models is exactly what I would consider, maybe even the LS500h if the prices came down and my earnings went up! 🙂

[Supafly]

On 10/20/2022 at 11:31 AM, Spacewagon52 said:

Interesting thread. If I can find the time, I will try to compile a personal review of my LS 400. It is interesting to note that gadgets and gizmos are never mentioned by owners - just the sublime quiet ride, wafting along at a steady pace. 

What would I replace it with? I really have no idea. Second hand car prices are stupid at present, so I feel sorry for anyone wishing to buy a car now. If you are going to dip your toe (again) into owning an older luxury car then it would have to be a Lexus for me.

However, I would probably go for a sensible option - Auris Estate. RAV4 ............ NX300h? Oh dear!

The technology was way ahead of its time, even today people are amazed that it has a touch screen sat nav from so long ago.  I do use it sometimes and the sound system is really good even by todays standards.  However, it get's left behind by google maps on my phone.

The quiet comfortable ride is still a revelation after most manufacturers race to pander to journalists requirements of a car that can lap 2 seconds faster than the previous generation...

I also own a lancia delta integrale and a bmw e30 with a 2.8 engine upgrade so enjoy driving fast but I also absolutely love driving around in the LS400.  I'm even considering looking into towing one of the other cars in the LS to have the best of both worlds... will need to look into weights etc...

My neighbor has a hybrid auris, not much sound deadening and when the engine flares up it can be quite disconcerting.  Both of these I'm sure you can get used to quickly but they were my initial observations.

Would be great to find out what you think about your LS too

[Supafly]

On 10/20/2022 at 12:01 PM, BigBoomer said:

The clouded double glazing only seems to have affected the pre-facelift LS430s. I've not heard of a single instance of it on the facelift model.
It seems to have been a manufacturing defect where the glue holding the 2 panes together was breaking down with age/UV.

House double glazing is very different to car double glazing. The car stuff is 2 panes of glass stuck to each other with a noise/vibration damping layer in between. House double glazing uses nitrogen/vacuum between the layers of glass and has a frame to keep the glass layers separate so provides for superior sound/thermal insulation, but is bulky and as you say not suited to the automotive environment.

Do you have experience of both pre and post facelift models of the LS430?

I personally prefer the look of the facelift and am curious to know what the differences are, as felt by the driver.

The >2004 LS430 was also high on my list before I bought the LS400 and the gearbox cooler/air suspension were a big concern at the time.

[Supafly]

On 10/21/2022 at 4:45 PM, Cotswold Pete said:

To add to my earlier thoughts, yesterday spent 3 hours in a CL500 going to a see a supplier and three hours back home.  I was passenger

Nice and quiet, more gizmos than my workshop in the cellar.  Road noise certainly way less than LS on the rougher motorway surfaces

BUT

After three hours (no stops), it was an effort to haul my butt out of the car, and my mate the driver was even more 'crippled' then I was.  Never had that even on a 5 hour no-stopping session in the LS.

Also not able to use Google maps in the car, like it was somehow blocking signal, never had that before in any car, so not sure if CL has a sort of Farady Cage effect, GPS seemd to be working (really odd).

Did enjoy driving my LS Sofa to work this morning😊

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, I do like the CL's and had assumed that it would be just as comfortable as the S. 

As much as I like them they're another car that can cripple in more ways than one, as they can be expensive to run/fix and my experience of mercedes dealers is awful (S class, E class, Viano - it didn't matter the dealers were a pain).

I'm the same now, every time I drive something else, I breathe a sigh of relief when I get back behind the wheel of my LS.

[Supafly]

On 10/21/2022 at 5:25 PM, Malc1 said:

seems nowt as comfy as an old Ls400 on a longish trip

I've done 3hrs or more at one go and just opened the door, popped my legs out and stood up, a little stretch and then off we go, well, after I've picked me walking stick off the back seat that is ✌️   seriously tho' I've not driven a more comfy car for sure and not sidelined by all these modern gizmos that might otherwise be popping in front of me eyes for attention too

Long live the long lived Ls400 

Malc

The novelty of the gizmos quickly wears off as you realise you now just want to get from point A to point B as comfortably and quietly as possible.

We had the new hybrid mercedes s class for a test drive and although it was fun changing the mood lighting and messing with all the options, the reality was that you would quickly just set and forget these things.  The main thing I noticed was how poor (relatively speaking) the ride was at low speeds, the LS400 was way better.  Although this was more than likely down to the stupidly big wheels and very low profile tyres, which looked good on the car but were obviously hindering its urban abilities.

[Supafly]

On 10/21/2022 at 5:45 PM, royoftherovers said:

Come on now, own up you old bu**er, you are trying to tell us that you can travel for 3 hours in that old jalopy, at your age and not need to have a toilet break ?

It`s all I can do to make Tebay on the M6N(1 3/4 HOURS TRAVEL ).

Misrepresenting  the situation is not something that a well educated, qualified ex member of the  banking fraternity and current member of the upper classes is supposed to do.

Hope you can sleep well tonight.🤣🤣

I'm now finding this out for myself too.  Used to be able to drive for hours without needing to stop and now finding that sometimes less than an hour in I'm hoping I can make it to the next services!

 

I see that you have a GS450h, I was seriously considering one of these too before I bought my LS400.  I would be grateful if you could share your opinion of how it compares to the LS.  I was in a bmw 520d estate a little while ago and was really impressed at how quiet and comfortable it was for a mid range car.

[Supafly]

On 10/21/2022 at 6:39 PM, Cotswold Pete said:

I suffer from CVB (Constantly Variable Bladder), sometimes I can get to Tebay (4hrs away) before a break is needed, sometimes I get to Strensham (40mins away) and the call comes.

Cups of tea are a killer.

On a serious note I have heard this is why blokes tend to get infections through not drinking enough for fear of being caught short, and that is what got my dad this year, and with Septicaemia being end result which he never fully recovered from.  Got to 87 mind you and only in the last year did the problem start manifesting itself. 

My condolences for your loss.

Thank you for the advice, I find that I think twice before we head out for a long drive and the 'logical' step is to limit fluids before hand.  I'll bear this in mind and make sure I do drink and plan some breaks in just in case.

[Las Palmas]

Was driving in a Citroën in 198? Did not like it at all. Soft as a sofa, a very soft sofa.

MB 300SEL 6.3 was fantastic and comfortable, but impossibly expensive in fuel, so it was only because it was a company car, I was driving in it. Our own 350SE was comfortable also. Wife miss the 350.

Nissan ZX, both 280 and 300 were fine cars, comfortable and still fun to drive. Miss them.

Later 199? Honda Accord Coupé was comfortable and not really thirsty if not going fast. Miss it.

The CT Luxury Sport 2016-17 model we have now, is comfortable and in my eyes not too firm. Many think differently. That only proves that we all do not have same idea of what comfortable is.

Lancia EVO2 4WD Rally is the only car I will call uncomfortable, but it was fun.

[Supafly]

On 10/21/2022 at 9:23 PM, BMCWP said:

So..  Had a few barges in my time. Jaguar XJ40 - nice car, comfortable and everything worked in it. Replaced that with a LPG converted Jaguar XJ8 - 8 years of trouble free driving and only replaced as it was too low to get into due to a bad back - that was replaced with a Range Rover L322 that I should have kept as it was actually reliable only ever going off the road due to a faulty height sensor (a brand new one!) that I had to wait 2 days to get replaced but ultimately it had to go as my parents could not get in and out of it safely. Then came a 2006 S Class Merc - hateful thing and the less said about it the better. Then a VW Touareg followed by a Nissan Murano both dumped due to silly parts prices and then along came the LS430 and yeah... better than any of the others (although I will admit the Murano's seats were better!) it's staying until the time comes that either fuel gets too expensive or I am too old to drive it. I could be tempted into a big Volvo though and I really really really want a Citroen C6 (yes I know I'm mad)  

I'm mad too then 🙂

I spent ages researching and looking for C6's.  I had a Xantia and apart from the noisy diesel engine (which was super easy to maintain and work on) it was brilliant.  The rarity of c6 parts pushed me towards the c5 with the hydropneumatic suspension but I didn't really like them that much.  The LS won and I'm grateful it did but I would love to scratch the itch of driving a C6.

It's also really interesting to hear about your experience with the Jag/RR's I knew there were satisfied owners out there it's just that the unsatisfied ones are naturally going to be more vocal.  I do really like the X308 but have to admit the nay sayers got to me so it was ruled out.

[Supafly]

On 10/21/2022 at 10:04 PM, Alan305 said:

I did 110k in my 93 LS400 and 220k in my 04 LS430. 430 wins, but not by much.

Was your LS430 a facelift? I think 2004 was the year they switched over.  What would you say hands the win to the 430 over the 400?

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Supafly said:

I'm now finding this out for myself too.  Used to be able to drive for hours without needing to stop and now finding that sometimes less than an hour in I'm hoping I can make it to the next services!

 

I see that you have a GS450h, I was seriously considering one of these too before I bought my LS400.  I would be grateful if you could share your opinion of how it compares to the LS.  I was in a bmw 520d estate a little while ago and was really impressed at how quiet and comfortable it was for a mid range car.

Thanks Supafly.

I have never driven or ridden in an LS400 and so am unable to offer an opinion.

My GS is silent on its 17 inch All Weather Kumho tyres and I am more than content with its performance.

My Merc is quiet on its 16 inch Michelin Pilots, but not as supreme as the GS.

[Supafly]

On 10/22/2022 at 9:36 AM, Malc1 said:

I've driven about a quarter of a million miles in my 3 x Ls400s .....  with about 120k miles in this Mk3 over the past 11 years or so,,,,,,,, it's just on 242k on the speedo ............  off to Bognor in a moment for the weekend with relatives ............ about a 200 mile roundtrip methinks

It's a very comfy reliable very inexpensive to maintain and wondrous car to have and to motor in ....  jeez I put my foot down on my usual trip to the swimming pool yesterday ..  there's a short stretch where one can do that thankfully ........  she just flies 

I have driven many other marques over these years but these last 22 years have seen me prefer my Ls400s for sure

Malc

That is why I started the post, the longer I own this LS400 the more I realise how much I would struggle to replace it 😄

[Supafly]

8 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Thanks Supafly.

I have never driven or ridden in an LS400 and so am unable to offer an opinion.

My GS is silent on its 17 inch All Weather Kumho tyres and I am more than content with its performance.

My Merc is quiet on its 16 inch Michelin Pilots, but not as supreme as the GS.

Thank you for the quick reply.

How is the GS on the motorway at higher speeds? Is it still as quiet with little to no road/wind noise?

I haven't driven the GS but understand that they are deceptively fast.  Nearly two full seconds quicker to 60mph than the LS400 and I think all round better fuel economy too.  Would be interesting to find out how the ride compares across the two vehicles, I would have thought that the ride might be stiffer/sportier on the GS as the segment is more of a blend of characteristics.  A promising alternative...

[royoftherovers]

25 minutes ago, Supafly said:

Thank you for the quick reply.

How is the GS on the motorway at higher speeds? Is it still as quiet with little to no road/wind noise?

I haven't driven the GS but understand that they are deceptively fast.  Nearly two full seconds quicker to 60mph than the LS400 and I think all round better fuel economy too.  Would be interesting to find out how the ride compares across the two vehicles, I would have thought that the ride might be stiffer/sportier on the GS as the segment is more of a blend of characteristics.  A promising alternative...

The GS is a very fine car. It is very fast with a.top speed limited to 155mph and reaches 60mph in a shade less then 6 seconds. It is not a Sports car,it is not a Drivers car as in BMW, but it remains very quiet at all Motorway speeds in UK and on the Continent.

I have driven it from Wirral to Cromarty and on to Dornoch and from Wirral to Lulworth Cove. AND SEVERAL TRIPS to Fallingbostal near Hannover in Germany. It is reasonable with fuel consumption and nudges 40mph average when touring and 33-35 within UK. The suspension firms up when I select POWER mode.

It has earned me the only Speeding Ticket I have received and that from that naughty man known as The Procurator Fiscal in Scotland.

It is a Wolf in Sheep`s clothing.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Supafly said:

I haven't driven the GS but understand that they are deceptively fast. 

There are different variants of the GS. For the series III specifically (2005-2012) you have the GS300, GS430, GS460 and GS450h and obviously performance varies between them. GS430/460/450h are all quick, the 450h has the best economy but with compromised boot space (especially before 2009).

They are all quiet, much better than the IS, but not LS quiet.

[BigBoomer]

The only car I can think of that even remotely compares to the LS400/LS430 ride was the Citroen XM Activa 3.0 V6 that my Dad had for about a year.
Citroen levels of waftiness yet once you started to chuck it through the twisties it was darty and a hoot to drive.
Of course, it spent 4 of those 12 months at a Citroen dealers having the Active suspension repaired and eventually detonated it's gearbox at some traffic lights.
I imagine that certain Rollers, Bennys, and Caddys are as good or better but out of my price bracket and not really my taste either.

[Supafly]

58 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

"It is a Wolf in Sheep`s clothing."

This is what really attracted me to them.  I have a soft spot for 'sleepers' 🙂

[Supafly]

10 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

There are different variants of the GS. For the series III specifically (2005-2012) you have the GS300, GS430, GS460 and GS450h and obviously performance varies between them. GS430/460/450h are all quick, the 450h has the best economy but with compromised boot space (especially before 2009).

They are all quiet, much better than the IS, but not LS quiet.

Thank you for the context.

One of the things I've done on my LS400 is soundproof under the rear seats and carpet when I had them out to do the rear shocks.

I've bought enough to do the whole car.  When time permits, I plan to add stick on sound deadening and mass loaded vinyl to the doors, front floor, front wings and the roof ahead of the sunroof.  That should take care of a lot of the road/tyre noise (I hope).  Doing the rear seat and footwell area made a difference but it wasn't very noticeable.  I think I'll need to do it all for a noticeable difference.  My e30 was noticeably quieter and more refined after I did floor, bulkhead, doors and quarters.

The only downside to doing all of that will be if I have to change the car, it will be an even bigger challenge.

[Supafly]

13 minutes ago, BigBoomer said:

The only car I can think of that even remotely compares to the LS400/LS430 ride was the Citroen XM Activa 3.0 V6 that my Dad had for about a year.
Citroen levels of waftiness yet once you started to chuck it through the twisties it was darty and a hoot to drive.
Of course, it spent 4 of those 12 months at a Citroen dealers having the Active suspension repaired and eventually detonated it's gearbox at some traffic lights.
I imagine that certain Rollers, Bennys, and Caddys are as good or better but out of my price bracket and not really my taste either.

I found the brakes on my Citroen were the biggest challenge to get used to at first, for those that haven't driven one it feels like you have 0-100% braking effort across a fraction of pedal travel you are used to.  I'm glad I always buckle up as I would have head butted the steering wheel on more than one occasion!

I'm with you on the RR, Bentley etc I would love to drive one but really like the understated luxury of the LS.  I love fast cars, sporty cars, comfortable cars but more than that I prefer the anonymity of flying/cruising under the radar.  However, saying that the LS400 is now starting to get more attention as it ages gracefully.

[Malc1]

1 hour ago, Supafly said:

This is what really attracted me to them.  I have a soft spot for 'sleepers' 🙂

and it's a V8 4 ltr as roaring as a church mouse ............ 

I couldn't see me wanting to replace her ever until I had to, like a serious insurance write-off that scrapped her .....  there's always going to be a further Ls400 for me for sure .....  and they are always going to be at a sensible price too methinks

£100k for a new car, blimey, the Boss indoors would go nuts as would the Office Guys knowing it's their noses to the grindstone that would be paying for it ..............

so guys, what is the HMRC max figure these days for a Company Car  ??

 

Malc