Quieter/More comfortable cars...

[Supafly]

Let me start by saying that I have a 1998 LS400 and it is the best car I have owned.

Really quick summary.

Urban

Very quiet, very comfortable on all road surfaces

Motorway

Very comfortable but as speeds increase (>65mph) there is some wind/road noise that comes through. Still excellent but see below for my experience of other cars..

 

I have also been fortunate to have driven the following for several hundred thousand combined miles:

One of each mercedes S class model from 1980's up to 2015 - below is for the newer 2008-2015 models

Urban

Quiet, comfortable on all road surfaces not as comfortable as the LS400

Motorway

Very comfortable and quiet as speeds increase (double glazed and more isolated from road noise), more comfortable than the LS400

 

Audi A8 D3 3.0 tdi (high profile tyres)

Urban

Very quiet, comfortable on all road surfaces.  Similar to the LS400, noisier engine though.

Motorway

Very comfortable and very quiet as speeds increase. More comfortable than the LS400 at high speeds.

 

Mercedes E class e280 cdi (high profile tyres)

Urban

Quiet, comfortable on most road surfaces.  Not as good as the LS400 but still comfortable.

Motorway

Comfortable and quiet as speeds increase, road noise noticeable as speeds increase.  Not as good as the LS400 but still comfortable.

 

So that is my context, for me the LS400 is my 'affordable' way into luxury on the road.  I plan on keeping it for as long as I can but once/if it becomes uneconomical to run I would be interested to hear what your thoughts and experiences of alternatives are.

I've been tempted many a time with the LS600h, I thought about the LS430/460 but from what I have read I wouldn't see an upgrade in soft wallowy luxuriousness.

 

My intention isn't for this to turn into a fanboy argument, which so many threads like this turn into.  I'm just really interested to hear about your experiences with other cars in comparison to the LS400, so that if we must, then we can be more informed about possible options.

[Malc1]

then I'm useless to ask really 🤣  .............. my Honda Legend is brilliantly bullet proof too and a great cruiser BUT I just can't get " right " in the seating by comparison to my Ls400

I've driven all sorts in my car sales business owning days

RR big Mercs Audi  Jaguars  ( older ) SUVs ..  fun cars like the WRX  Aston Martini  big and small BMWs  BUT for comfort and reliability and durability with relatively tiny expense well, then, the Ls400 just beats 'em all to it tbh

I'm quite OK popping the odd £grand into her as the miles and time pass by ...  at 242k miles and 50% of that mine over 11 years ............ 

so I've lots to personally compare my old Ls400 with but from a little time past ....... I'm not about to pop  £5 / 10/20/30/100k into a replacement car ............  but I would replace the LS 400 if she was a write-off or whatever 

I'm sure none of the above helps you to find a sensible alternative🙃 

Malc

[Stanwithaplan]

3 hours ago, Supafly said:

Let me start by saying that I have a 1998 LS400 and it is the best car I have owned.

Really quick summary.

Urban

Very quiet, very comfortable on all road surfaces

Motorway

Very comfortable but as speeds increase (>65mph) there is some wind/road noise that comes through. Still excellent but see below for my experience of other cars..

 

I have also been fortunate to have driven the following for several hundred thousand combined miles:

One of each mercedes S class model from 1980's up to 2015 - below is for the newer 2008-2015 models

Urban

Quiet, comfortable on all road surfaces not as comfortable as the LS400

Motorway

Very comfortable and quiet as speeds increase (double glazed and more isolated from road noise), more comfortable than the LS400

 

Audi A8 D3 3.0 tdi (high profile tyres)

Urban

Very quiet, comfortable on all road surfaces.  Similar to the LS400, noisier engine though.

Motorway

Very comfortable and very quiet as speeds increase. More comfortable than the LS400 at high speeds.

 

Mercedes E class e280 cdi (high profile tyres)

Urban

Quiet, comfortable on most road surfaces.  Not as good as the LS400 but still comfortable.

Motorway

Comfortable and quiet as speeds increase, road noise noticeable as speeds increase.  Not as good as the LS400 but still comfortable.

 

So that is my context, for me the LS400 is my 'affordable' way into luxury on the road.  I plan on keeping it for as long as I can but once/if it becomes uneconomical to run I would be interested to hear what your thoughts and experiences of alternatives are.

I've been tempted many a time with the LS600h, I thought about the LS430/460 but from what I have read I wouldn't see an upgrade in soft wallowy luxuriousness.

 

My intention isn't for this to turn into a fanboy argument, which so many threads like this turn into.  I'm just really interested to hear about your experiences with other cars in comparison to the LS400, so that if we must, then we can be more informed about possible options.

I had a 2010 Audi A8 4.2 diesel twin turbo, which was a comfortable car for long journeys, but my current and previous LS400s always seemed to encourage me to alter my driving style, to  happily waft everywhere, the Audi never did that. The seats in the LS are much more comfortable than the A8 which "squeezed" too much. My old (again 2010) Lincoln Navigator was pretty good, better sound deadening than the older LS400, but again it never wafted. All my other cars have had hard suspensions.

BTW I'm also considering an LS600H for my UK car, but I'm going to need to test drive one first, because the CVT may not suit me, it seems its polarising in reviews?

[Cotswold Pete]

Supafly,

Interesting to see your comments on Mercs, I recently had a go in SL500 and CL500, nice cars, certainly tighter than my 22 year old LS

But comfort was not there at all for me, and the noise seemed to be on a par with 400 with marginal less road noise.

Since having a hearing aid, i have noticed rattles (minor) in the LS, and the road noise on concrete surfaces more annoying.

I am in same boat in terms of my LS is old and needing work, but I really struggle to find a 'good value' replacement for my barge, might try a 460 just to see, but my plan (if wife does not stop me) is to get soemthing like a Toyota Auris as my daily and get the LS looking tiday and sorted as my 'I need a nice drive' motor.

My only other comment is a Range Rover is a quite car as is Audi Q7, just not sure I would want to own one even though both comfortable to drive for hours on end

[Malc1]

9 minutes ago, Cotswold Pete said:

My only other comment is a Range Rover is a quite car

and especially so while you're awaiting the breakdown truck to arrive I understand !

Malc

[BigBoomer]

The LS400 is the waft-meister but the LS430 is quieter, assuming you have the double-glazed glass.
At 70Mph about the only noise in my LS430 is tyre noise unless I have my foot to the floor when I can hear a nice muted V8 roar 
I do prefer the LS400 seats as the LS430 ones seem to lack adequate padding. They are good, but not as good!

For comfort nothing beat my 2001 S320CDI. I could sit in that for the full 900 mile range and still walk when I got out.
Shame it was such an unreliable piece of 💩.

I could be tempted by an LS460/600 but it would have to be a 2013 onwards for reliability,.... and I HATE that gopping awful Basking Shark grille.

The CVT isn't that bad. It takes a little getting used to but if you are used to older "slushbox" automatics you already understand that rpm and road speed are not directly related.
CVTs are just an extension of that. If you want to go faster, push the pedal. Yes, it will hold constant rpm whilst accelerating because the gearing is always at peak efficiency and it  is constantly changing the gear ratio to give optimum acceleration for your throttle position. They are also not as reliable, and more expensive to service.

 

[royoftherovers]

31 minutes ago, BigBoomer said:

The LS400 is the waft-meister but the LS430 is quieter, assuming you have the double-glazed glass.
At 70Mph about the only noise in my LS430 is tyre noise unless I have my foot to the floor when I can hear a nice muted V8 roar 
I do prefer the LS400 seats as the LS430 ones seem to lack adequate padding. They are good, but not as good!

For comfort nothing beat my 2001 S320CDI. I could sit in that for the full 900 mile range and still walk when I got out.
Shame it was such an unreliable piece of 💩.

I could be tempted by an LS460/600 but it would have to be a 2013 onwards for reliability,.... and I HATE that gopping awful Basking Shark grille.

The CVT isn't that bad. It takes a little getting used to but if you are used to older "slushbox" automatics you already understand that rpm and road speed are not directly related.
CVTs are just an extension of that. If you want to go faster, push the pedal. Yes, it will hold constant rpm whilst accelerating because the gearing is always at peak efficiency and it  is constantly changing the gear ratio to give optimum acceleration for your throttle position. They are also not as reliable, and more expensive to service.

 

George, does your last sentence apply to all CVT`s or just the Lexus e-cvt ?

To my knowledge finding hen`s teeth is easier than learning about an unreliable e-cvt !

[Malc1]

3 hours ago, BigBoomer said:

the LS430 is quieter, assuming you have the double-glazed glass.

meant to say . saw a parked up nice looking gold one in Brixham the other day   W80TRS    but sadly it had back door window double glazing degradation ......  s'pose the only answer to that is a new window or a potentially dodgy one from a breaker 

Malc

[Cotswold Pete]

59 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

 double glazing degradation 

Given house double glazing eventually goes AWOL, then double glazing subject to the vibrations etc of a car, surely is a bit of dodgy proposition in the long run

[GEN]

21 hours ago, Stanwithaplan said:

I had a 2010 Audi A8 4.2 diesel twin turbo, which was a comfortable car for long journeys, but my current and previous LS400s always seemed to encourage me to alter my driving style, to  happily waft everywhere, the Audi never did that. The seats in the LS are much more comfortable than the A8 which "squeezed" too much. My old (again 2010) Lincoln Navigator was pretty good, better sound deadening than the older LS400, but again it never wafted. All my other cars have had hard suspensions.

BTW I'm also considering an LS600H for my UK car, but I'm going to need to test drive one first, because the CVT may not suit me, it seems its polarising in reviews?

As a Ls400 and Ls430 previous owner, and a current Ls600hl owner, I confirm that the Ls400 has the best ride and the most comfortable seats of all three.  The problem with the Ls400 now is that parts are no longer available from Lexus/Toyota (I needed 2 solenoids to keep my transmission going but.....no luck) so while maintaining it (with aftermarket parts) you're slowly degrading the car... 

[Malc1]

15 hours ago, GEN said:

you're slowly degrading the car... 

the option being, along with most other marques of similar age is just send her to the scrapper ...  to be crushed and no more ......  I'm happy with non Lexus Toyota bits and bobs if that's the only way to keep her going 

Malc

[GEN]

40 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

the option being, along with most other marques of similar age is just send her to the scrapper ...  to be crushed and no more ......  I'm happy with non Lexus Toyota bits and bobs if that's the only way to keep her going 

Malc

Obviously that's great for you as you are happy with it.  Hope it'll see you through many years.

[Spacewagon52]

Interesting thread. If I can find the time, I will try to compile a personal review of my LS 400. It is interesting to note that gadgets and gizmos are never mentioned by owners - just the sublime quiet ride, wafting along at a steady pace. 

What would I replace it with? I really have no idea. Second hand car prices are stupid at present, so I feel sorry for anyone wishing to buy a car now. If you are going to dip your toe (again) into owning an older luxury car then it would have to be a Lexus for me.

However, I would probably go for a sensible option - Auris Estate. RAV4 ............ NX300h? Oh dear!

[BigBoomer]

On 10/19/2022 at 10:45 AM, royoftherovers said:

George, does your last sentence apply to all CVT`s or just the Lexus e-cvt ?

To my knowledge finding hen`s teeth is easier than learning about an unreliable e-cvt !

CVTs in general. The Lexus/Toyota ones are amongst the more reliable ones (as with most things Toyota turn their hands to).
From what I read the CVT used in the LS is the epicyclic type rather than the belt type, so it should need less maintenance and should be more reliable than belt type.

[BigBoomer]

22 hours ago, Malc1 said:

meant to say . saw a parked up nice looking gold one in Brixham the other day   W80TRS    but sadly it had back door window double glazing degradation ......  s'pose the only answer to that is a new window or a potentially dodgy one from a breaker 

Malc

The clouded double glazing only seems to have affected the pre-facelift LS430s. I've not heard of a single instance of it on the facelift model.
It seems to have been a manufacturing defect where the glue holding the 2 panes together was breaking down with age/UV.

House double glazing is very different to car double glazing. The car stuff is 2 panes of glass stuck to each other with a noise/vibration damping layer in between. House double glazing uses nitrogen/vacuum between the layers of glass and has a frame to keep the glass layers separate so provides for superior sound/thermal insulation, but is bulky and as you say not suited to the automotive environment.

[Spock66]

On 10/19/2022 at 10:12 AM, BigBoomer said:

CVTs are just an extension of that. If you want to go faster, push the pedal. Yes, it will hold constant rpm whilst accelerating because the gearing is always at peak efficiency and it  is constantly changing the gear ratio to give optimum acceleration for your throttle position. They are also not as reliable, and more expensive to service.

There is no servicing of the current generation of eCVTs required, even transmission fluid is supposedly for life.  But yes no doubt a repair would be expensive, but there seems to be very few reports of problems.

[Cotswold Pete]

To add to my earlier thoughts, yesterday spent 3 hours in a CL500 going to a see a supplier and three hours back home.  I was passenger

Nice and quiet, more gizmos than my workshop in the cellar.  Road noise certainly way less than LS on the rougher motorway surfaces

BUT

After three hours (no stops), it was an effort to haul my butt out of the car, and my mate the driver was even more 'crippled' then I was.  Never had that even on a 5 hour no-stopping session in the LS.

Also not able to use Google maps in the car, like it was somehow blocking signal, never had that before in any car, so not sure if CL has a sort of Farady Cage effect, GPS seemd to be working (really odd).

Did enjoy driving my LS Sofa to work this morning😊

[Malc1]

seems nowt as comfy as an old Ls400 on a longish trip

I've done 3hrs or more at one go and just opened the door, popped my legs out and stood up, a little stretch and then off we go, well, after I've picked me walking stick off the back seat that is ✌️   seriously tho' I've not driven a more comfy car for sure and not sidelined by all these modern gizmos that might otherwise be popping in front of me eyes for attention too

Long live the long lived Ls400 

Malc

[royoftherovers]

10 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

seems nowt as comfy as an old Ls400 on a longish trip

I've done 3hrs or more at one go and just opened the door, popped my legs out and stood up, a little stretch and then off we go, well, after I've picked me walking stick off the back seat that is ✌️   seriously tho' I've not driven a more comfy car for sure and not sidelined by all these modern gizmos that might otherwise be popping in front of me eyes for attention too

Long live the long lived Ls400 

Malc

Come on now, own up you old bu**er, you are trying to tell us that you can travel for 3 hours in that old jalopy, at your age and not need to have a toilet break ?

It`s all I can do to make Tebay on the M6N(1 3/4 HOURS TRAVEL ).

Misrepresenting  the situation is not something that a well educated, qualified ex member of the  banking fraternity and current member of the upper classes is supposed to do.

Hope you can sleep well tonight.🤣🤣

[Malc1]

9 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

and current member of the upper classes

I'm only Upper Class when i pop upstairs to the loo  ........... and 3 hrs driving I have to get my bladder in a comfy position too ...  of course ......  that's challenging tbh

I do however sympathise with older people that have " to go " too frequently ....  guys do have the advantage of a local tree/shrub whatever location on side of da road of course

Malc

[royoftherovers]

Just now, Malc1 said:

I'm only Upper Class when i pop upstairs to the loo  ........... and 3 hrs driving I have to get my bladder in a comfy position too ...  of course ......  that's challenging tbh

I do however sympathise with older people that have " to go " too frequently ....  guys do have the advantage of a local tree/shrub whatever location on side of da road of course

Malc

So, do try to respect your elders if only once in a while.

If I ever get down to your neck of the woods.....you will be toast !🤣🤣🤣👍👍👍

[Cotswold Pete]

49 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

It`s all I can do to make Tebay on the M6N(1 3/4 HOURS TRAVEL ).

I suffer from CVB (Constantly Variable Bladder), sometimes I can get to Tebay (4hrs away) before a break is needed, sometimes I get to Strensham (40mins away) and the call comes.

Cups of tea are a killer.

On a serious note I have heard this is why blokes tend to get infections through not drinking enough for fear of being caught short, and that is what got my dad this year, and with Septicaemia being end result which he never fully recovered from.  Got to 87 mind you and only in the last year did the problem start manifesting itself. 

[BMCWP]

So..  Had a few barges in my time. Jaguar XJ40 - nice car, comfortable and everything worked in it. Replaced that with a LPG converted Jaguar XJ8 - 8 years of trouble free driving and only replaced as it was too low to get into due to a bad back - that was replaced with a Range Rover L322 that I should have kept as it was actually reliable only ever going off the road due to a faulty height sensor (a brand new one!) that I had to wait 2 days to get replaced but ultimately it had to go as my parents could not get in and out of it safely. Then came a 2006 S Class Merc - hateful thing and the less said about it the better. Then a VW Touareg followed by a Nissan Murano both dumped due to silly parts prices and then along came the LS430 and yeah... better than any of the others (although I will admit the Murano's seats were better!) it's staying until the time comes that either fuel gets too expensive or I am too old to drive it. I could be tempted into a big Volvo though and I really really really want a Citroen C6 (yes I know I'm mad)  

[Alan305]

I did 110k in my 93 LS400 and 220k in my 04 LS430. 430 wins, but not by much.

[Malc1]

I've driven about a quarter of a million miles in my 3 x Ls400s .....  with about 120k miles in this Mk3 over the past 11 years or so,,,,,,,, it's just on 242k on the speedo ............  off to Bognor in a moment for the weekend with relatives ............ about a 200 mile roundtrip methinks

It's a very comfy reliable very inexpensive to maintain and wondrous car to have and to motor in ....  jeez I put my foot down on my usual trip to the swimming pool yesterday ..  there's a short stretch where one can do that thankfully ........  she just flies 

I have driven many other marques over these years but these last 22 years have seen me prefer my Ls400s for sure

Malc