Mysterious 12v battery

[GnGEmpire]

Hello,

I have a 2015 GS300H hybrid.

I bought it used recently and I think it still has the original 12v Battery (judging by how much dust was on it)

During the last service at the dealership I was told the 12v Battery is weak and I should replace it soon.

I have started shopping around, and the Battery dealer told me there's something different about the shape/construction of this particular 60 amp Battery and they are not sure they can replace it properly. The guy struggled to give me a precise reason, but it had something to do with a piece that connects to it (which I later understood from that dealership that it's a temperature sensor).

The second Battery shop said they don't have "these type" of batteries and suggested that I have it replaced at the dealership

The third Battery shop said that any Bosch made 60 amp Battery would fit my car

I told the response of shop #3, to shop #2, and then shop #2 told me that shop #3 is just saying that for the money and they would damage the computers of the car if I let them put an ordinary Battery in it.

The official Lexus dealership told me that this is absolutely a standard Battery and it can be replaced with any other 60 amp. And that if I want to replace it with them, it will cost almost twice as much as from a 3rd party Battery shop. 

So pretty much 4 sources of information seem to be conflicting with each other, who knew it would be this difficult to get a car Battery replaced?!

Perhaps this forum's users could shed some light on the situation? Here is a picture of it:

[Herbie]

You'll notice a vent hose plugged in near the positive terminal, so as long as the new Battery has a vent hole for that hose to go into, any Battery will do.

The temperature sensor is usually just taped on, so remove it from the old Battery and tape it on the new one - job done.

Absolutely nothing magical or mystical about it whatsoever.

[Duggie B]

Could be an old wives tale, but, I have heard the infotainment system can be affected (knackered) when swapping the Battery leading to an expensive repair/replacement 🙄.

I had my Battery changed just to be on the safe side and let the dealer take the 'expensive' risk.

Try LPD and see if any discount on offer for the oem Battery.

[johnatg]

I'd agree that there's nothing mysterious about the Battery but it's not quite as simple as that. The original is a Panasonic S65D26 - the case size is D26 (A JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) spec). The S65 refers to the electrical spec.

These batteries are available - eg on eBay - there's one listed at about £290. There's a Yuasa equivalent available from mdsbattery.co.uk for about £309 - so they are expensive.

They are AGM batteries - there's a lot of discussion on here about whether that's necessary with the consensus being that it's not. Be aware though that when batteries are mounted in the boot by manufacturers they are almost invariably AGM.

The D26 case size is almost, but not quite the same as our 068 Battery. There are reports on here of versions of them being a little too big but the main thing is that they usually have 'superstructure' which goes up to the level of the top of the terminals - I worry that this makes the case too high to fit like the original. 068 batteries are themselves unusual and often not stocked. The case size is the same as the more common 069 but the terminals are the other way round.

I would think that you could fit a Bosch 068 Battery, for example, but be sure to fit the vent tube.

If I was buying a new Battery just now I think I would go for a Hankook AXS65D26L (https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/hankook-axs65d26l-dual-purpose-agm-battery/).
That doesn't have the superstructure, it's AGM and has the vent hole. It's £113.46 at time of typing.

The temperature sensor can just be swapped over.

As long as you disconnect the old Battery in the correct order (negative terminal first) and reconnect the new one correctly (positive terminal first) I don't think you will have any electrical problems.

Your dust does worry me - my Battery is about 6 months older than yours and is spotless. Maybe your car has had some very dirty/dusty stuff carried in the boot?

[Malc1]

Maybe shift responsibility for fitting the correct spec Battery, correctly, to an independent 3rd party that supplies car batteries ......  say the RAC ( on a breakdown say )  who will deal with all this very professionally and provide a standard 5 year warranty ....  at a slight £££ premium I'm sure BUT you will get the " best " hopefully

Just a thought !

Malc

[johnatg]

If you go onto the RAC website you'll find they don't do a suitable Battery for a GS300h /GS450h. And that's typical for many Battery etc places.

[GnGEmpire]

19 hours ago, johnatg said:

I'd agree that there's nothing mysterious about the battery but it's not quite as simple as that. The original is a Panasonic S65D26 - the case size is D26 (A JIS (Japanese Industrial Standards) spec). The S65 refers to the electrical spec.

These batteries are available - eg on ebay - there's one listed at about £290. There's a Yuasa equivalent available from mdsbattery.co.uk for about £309 - so they are expensive.

They are AGM batteries - there's a lot of discussion on here about whether that's necessary with the consensus being that it's not. Be aware though that when batteries are mounted in the boot by manufacturers they are almost invariably AGM.

The D26 case size is almost, but not quite the same as our 068 battery. There are reports on here of versions of them being a little too big but the main thing is that they usually have 'superstructure' which goes up to the level of the top of the terminals - I worry that this makes the case too high to fit like the original. 068 batteries are themselves unusual and often not stocked. The case size is the same as the more common 069 but the terminals are the other way round.

I would think that you could fit a Bosch 068 battery, for example, but be sure to fit the vent tube.

If I was buying a new battery just now I think I would go for a Hankook AXS65D26L (https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/hankook-axs65d26l-dual-purpose-agm-battery/).
That doesn't have the superstructure, it's AGM and has the vent hole. It's £113.46 at time of typing.

The temperature sensor can just be swapped over.

As long as you disconnect the old battery in the correct order (negative terminal first) and reconnect the new one correctly (positive terminal first) I don't think you will have any electrical problems.

Your dust does worry me - my battery is about 6 months older than yours and is spotless. Maybe your car has had some very dirty/dusty stuff carried in the boot?

Thank you for this input

[johnatg]

My Battery is now more than 8 years old so this is a subject of interest to me - so I've done a bit more research.

I should have said that the original Battery is Panasonic S65D26L - the L refers to the terminal layout. There is a temperature sensor mounted in a cut-out in the corner of the top of the case. The Battery has no hold down ledges at the bottom of the case. 068 batteries generally do and that is why they don't fit properly. You need to modify the Battery (by cutting off the ledges) or the tray.

So far as I can tell the only batteries which fit properly and have the temperature sensor are the Panasonic and Yuasa equivalent. Both are available from various sources but cost at least £250 - I think the best current price is from Lexus Parts Direct. They don't actually specify the make of Battery, but the diagram looks like the Panasonic. There are several sources, particularly for the Yuasa version, and various prices. Someone posted here that you can buy a Battery from Toyota dealers at a lower price - I don't know if that is actually the exact Panasonic or something different

The Hankook Battery I mentioned does appear to have bottom edge hold down ledges which may need cutting off.

If you are fitting a Battery other than the Panasonic or Yuasa you need to remove the temperature sensor from the original Battery - apparently this is pretty difficult but it can be prised off and glued to the new Battery. Or you could just not attach it to the Battery but that's obviously a compromise.

The new Battery should be a AGM type - that is for safety in the event of a crash because it won't drip acid. A wet (flooded) Battery will work perfectly well but you have the risk - slight though it may be. The GS hybrid boot is fairly well separated from the passenger cabin though. Note that a wet Battery will be a 068 type and won't quite fit properly. 

There are various other AGM batteries (described as 068 or S65D26L or both) which don't have the temperature sensor (eg Hankook, Power Plus) and which cost just over £100. Wet 068 batteries are available from about £65.

Any Battery other than the Panasonic or Yuasa involves a compromise - your choice!

[ColinBarber]

21 minutes ago, johnatg said:

The new battery should be a AGM type - that is for safety in the event of a crash because it won't drip acid. A wet (flooded) battery will work perfectly well but you have the risk - slight though it may be.

I wouldn't worry about that, Lexus don't on all their new models as they are fitting flooded batteries to vehicles with batteries in the boot (ES, UX etc.). The only hesitation I'd have in swapping an AGM for a standard flooded Battery is whether Lexus are using a slightly different charging profile for vehicles with AGM as standard fitment - something there isn't definite information on. 

[johnatg]

One other thing - vent tubes. Batteries discharge Hydrogen and Oxygen. Without a connected vent tube the hydrogen poses a slight flammability /explosive risk - probably insignificant unless you have a cigarette in your mouth when bending over the Battery. (Advice is always not to go near a Battery with a naked flame)

But the discharged gases carry trace amounts of sulphuric acid - very small with AGM - a bit more with flooded batteries. This would eventually cause corrosion in the Battery area. I have seen many MX-5s where it is common for people to fit a flooded Battery (instead of the original AGM) and not connect vent tubes. The result is horrible corrosion after a few years.

If there are vent holes in both ends of the Battery, fit tubes to both vents and T them together. Windscreen washer tubes and fittings are handy.

Vent tubes are not usually fitted when a Battery is under the bonnet - but check out any old Ford! (or others)

[Sami Tilander]

Check also this old thread, lots of information there: 

BR.Sami

[UKDarkstar]

Hi all - years since I posted as until now, happy Lexus GS40h owner!

However, now having same problem. Main deal fitted "their" Panasonic 28800-31281 Battery in Dec 202 so less than two years ago which has now failed. Car used little during Covid but followed Lexus advice to run it for an hour a week - https://mag.lexus.co.uk/lexus-hybrid-parked/

Now dealer is saying not under warranty and want £336 for new Battery inc. fitting and vat - seems a bit excessive for my 2020 GS.

Battery places say the model comes up as "manufacturer replacement only" which is why the likes of RAC/Halford etc. won't touch it but local Battery guy says an 068 one should be ok if it fits and is quoting £80 inc fitting and vat. The only issues from what I've read here and elsewhere are the temp sensor which I understand to be to do with regulating temp during charging and the venting.

 

I think, as others have done, I will take the plunge as, in the current economic climate (UK) I don't really want to be forking out to the main dealer although I have threatened a complaint to Lexus and Trading Standards to no avail even though they have benefitted from all the servicing over the last 5 years since I got the vehicle (not from a main dealer though).

 

Anyone got any other comments positive or negative about switching to an 068 Battery type?

[UKDarkstar]

Just a quick further update - Lexus rationale for rejecting the warranty claim on the Battery was that I hadn't done sufficient mileage to maintain the Battery even with running it for an hour each week per their instructions. However, main dealer has now stepped in and said as a valued customer etc. etc. 😉 they will cover the cost of the Battery and fitting for me to nothing to pay! I do have to give them 10/10 on their customer service survey though (no skin off my nose!)

Result! Many thanks to Lexus Poole (Dorset), part of the Hendy Group.

[Illogan]

Thank you for that update Kevin, (and delighted it's worked out so well for you!

[Barry14UK]

Good result in this case. However, where Lexus are not so forthcoming and a Battery with bottom hold down extensions is an alternative, as mentioned in this thread, provided the Battery tray is modified or Battery extensions cut off, I would not do the latter which may well invalidate the Battery guarantee, even though in reality it would not affect the integrity of the Battery.  I was presented with this situation when I replaced the Panasonic Battery on my RX450 with a better Ah but less expensive AGM one, so modified the polypropylene Lexus base.

I wanted to stay with the AGM type but getting a suitable case size is more difficult than with full flow lead acid which have a much larger range of case sizes.   

[Xdriq]

I've got bit separate question in regards to GS300h v12 Battery, yet it seems to fit to this topic. 

I'm wondering, if *disconnecting* mentioned v12 Battery for a week of time would be 'safe' for car electronics/infointanment system or could possibly cause some sort of issues?

I'm aware it wouldn't be great for v12 Battery itself to be disconnected for longer period of time, but I guess that, just a week shouldn't make a difference. 

If it would, why does sequency of disconnecting / reconnecting it has any meaning? Just curious , i.e  " As long as you disconnect the old Battery in the correct order (negative terminal first) and reconnect the new one correctly (positive terminal first) " 

Thanks 

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

44 minutes ago, Xdriq said:

I've got bit separate question in regards to GS300h v12 battery, yet it seems to fit to this topic. 

I'm wondering, if *disconnecting* mentioned v12 battery for a week of time would be 'safe' for car electronics/infointanment system or could possibly cause some sort of issues?

I'm aware it wouldn't be great for v12 battery itself to be disconnected for longer period of time, but I guess that, just a week shouldn't make a difference. 

If it would, why does sequency of disconnecting / reconnecting it has any meaning? Just curious , i.e  " As long as you disconnect the old battery in the correct order (negative terminal first) and reconnect the new one correctly (positive terminal first) " 

Thanks 

Pete.. What,s the situation with Disconnecting the Battery leaving the computer System and Control Without power for ANY Time ..Should we Connect a Temporary Battery before we Disconnect the original to power all the necessary systems and whats the Consequences if we DON,T..!!!!!

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Xdriq said:

I've got bit separate question in regards to GS300h v12 battery, yet it seems to fit to this topic. 

I'm wondering, if *disconnecting* mentioned v12 battery for a week of time would be 'safe' for car electronics/infointanment system or could possibly cause some sort of issues?

I'm aware it wouldn't be great for v12 battery itself to be disconnected for longer period of time, but I guess that, just a week shouldn't make a difference. 

If it would, why does sequency of disconnecting / reconnecting it has any meaning? Just curious , i.e  " As long as you disconnect the old battery in the correct order (negative terminal first) and reconnect the new one correctly (positive terminal first) " 

Thanks 

No issue with disconnecting the Battery for a period of time, other than you will need to reinitialise the auto windows as described in the owners manual.

 

You should disconnect the negative terminal first to minimise the chances of shorting out your Battery as you disconnect the positive terminate and accidentally touch the spanner on the car's bodywork. If you aren't removing the Battery then there is no need to go near the positive terminal though, just disconnect the negative and make sure it cannot swing back and touch the Battery terminal (put a rag around it to insulate it).

 

The question is why do you want to disconnect the Battery for a week? The 12 v Battery should easily survive being left for 2 weeks+ if it is fully charged. If you are concerned about the Battery going flat then disable smart entry. If you have your Battery disconnected then your vehicle's alarm won't be operating.

[westo3]

Would any of the above “alternative” batteries last longer than the 3 to 4 weeks without running the car or charging? I would like to leave my car at an airport car park for longer and even though I have a jump kit I understand letting the Battery run flat will shorten it life

[ColinBarber]

4 hours ago, westo3 said:

Would any of the above “alternative” batteries last longer than the 3 to 4 weeks without running the car or charging? I would like to leave my car at an airport car park for longer and even though I have a jump kit I understand letting the battery run flat will shorten it life

4 weeks is pushing it - even with a slightly higher capacity Battery. You won't physically fit something much larger.

I'd consider getting another car Battery, fully charge it, and connect it in parallel using jump leads once you parked up at the airport and then disconnect it before you drive away after your return. That second Battery could be something much larger which could easily last several months.

[IS300FSPORT]

Invest in a Noco GB40 booster will get you going again

Halfords

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/jump-starters/noco-gb40-1000a-jump-starter-721898.html

 

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, IS300FSPORT said:

Invest in a Noco GB40 booster will get you going again

Halfords

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/jump-starters/noco-gb40-1000a-jump-starter-721898.html

 

You have still knackered your Battery by letting it go flat though.

 

The alternative to using another Battery is to just disconnect the negative connection from the Battery when you leave it at the airport. 

[westo3]

Thanks Colin. Will try this

[westo3]

I am assuming nothing gets “de-programmed “ when you disconnect/ re connect the Battery and I can drive away without having to reset anything?