Stuck sparkplug(s)

[johnda]

Hi

Help! 

RX450h with 130k miles went for major service at and they could only change 2 of the facing 3 sparkplugs - the other 1 facing is seized.  I then took it to a Lexus main dealer and based on this they tried to release it but could not and did not want to even investigate the 3 at the back (which requires considerable work to get to).  Their suggestion was leave them be!  Does anyone know of an outfit who would be prepared to remove the stuck plug and strip back the bits required to access and hopefully remove the other 3 sparkplugs?  Would very much like to solve this as other than this the car is fine.

Any input or advice welcome!!

 

 

[Spock66]

I'd suggest trying penetrating fluid in the first instance.

[Malc1]

welcome to the Forum John

incredible that the Main Dealer service dept is so bloody useless ...........  can you name and shame ?

Andrew Mr Spock gives a simple and sensible first step ......  lots of it and for a few days too and then hopefully you've done all that any proper credible servicing guy would have done 

I have no idea beyond Andrew's common sense approach ......  Lexus Main Dealer must surely have someone competent to advise ............. competently

Best wishes

Malc

[Herbie]

Just to add to Andrew's suggestion I've had excellent results with this https://htsupplies.co.uk/products/innotec-deblock-ice-aerosol

Never tried it on spark plugs but I have no reason to think it would be any less effective.

[johnda]

Great to get feedback on this - thanks!  However the problem is more difficult because access the the rear part of the engine requires stripdown of lots of bits - that's why I would like an outfit (such as a Lexus main dealer!) to take it on and sort it.

I have seen videos of the technique which includes warm engine, very good penetrating oil and a slow reverse-forward unbolting motion - with the aim of shifting the carbon and not jamming it in the threads.  If I were younger....I would do it myself but I'm not so I need a competant garage.  I am aware of the risks because the plug could snap or debris could be dropped into the cylinder ugg!

John

[PCM]

... if lots of bits have to be removed to reach the plug, do you think 'they' actually tried?

[ColinBarber]

Are the plugs turning at all? Given that plugs are designed to create a gas tight seal, no liquid is getting passed. Penetrating oil will only help if the corrosion is on the outside of the seal or the plug turns enough to break the seal and allows the oil to get to the thread. 
 

Also only use very little oil. If you get the plug out it will run into the cylinder and you will hydrolock your engine if there is too much and you don’t turn over the engine with the plugs removed to blow it all out first. 

[J Henderson]

Try and find a garage or workshop with an induction heating tool, specifically designed for freeing rusted or siezed bolts. eg: "Bolt Buster" or similar.

Works in much the same way as using an oxyacetylene torch, only the operation is localised and flameless.

 

 

[Malc1]

Regrettably ........ seems like the Lexus RX450h is a “ no no “ car to own 

This,  what should be  regular servicing, changing spark plugs seems to be an incredibly bad design fault by Lexus 

surely Lexus has a sensible and credible service plan for changing them ? 

Malc 

 

[johnda]

Induction heating is a great idea ... but what garage has that.

I agree the design is poor and the servicing scheme that leaves the plugs in until they are stuck seem short sighted. A no no car... no because I've had 10 good years motoring but seems crazy to give up a scrap a great car because the spark plug(s) are stuck!

John

 

[Illogan]

As Bolt buster tools are on amazon for £420, I cannot think of a good reason why any half decent Lexus dealership wouldn't have or get one

[ColinBarber]

32 minutes ago, johnda said:

Induction heating is a great idea ... but what garage has that.

I agree the design is poor and the servicing scheme that leaves the plugs in until they are stuck seem short sighted. A no no car... no because I've had 10 good years motoring but seems crazy to give up a scrap a great car because the spark plug(s) are stuck!

John

 

I assume the plugs were changed at 60k miles? In the US the interval for these plugs is 100k miles so they should be good until you get to 160k miles and will probably go on for 200k+ so it probably isn't worth trying to get them out and risk stripping the threads on the heads.

I don't understand why they are so stuck though - if they were fake plugs without the correct coating then I could understand it but not genuine denso plugs.

 

29 minutes ago, Illogan said:

As Bolt buster tools are on Amazon for £420, I cannot think of a good reason why any half decent Lexus dealership wouldn't have or get one

There is very little room in the plug tubes, I doubt one would fit.

[johnda]

I dont KNOW when they were last changed but I have followed the service schedule with Lexus doing the work, so if plugs should have been changed I trusted them to do it. However, now I know how difficult it is to get to the rear set of 3, I doubt if they have been changed since new 😞

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, johnda said:

However, now I know how difficult it is to get to the rear set of 3, I doubt if they have been changed since new

It's time consuming - takes a Lexus dealer about 3 hours. Nothing they can't easily do and no reason to doubt they haven't done it previously.

But given that they cannot undo one of the easy reach plugs it doesn't make sense for them to charge you 3 hours labour with the risk of nothing to show for it.

[Spock66]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

But given that they cannot undo one of the easy reach plugs it doesn't make sense for them to charge you 3 hours labour with the risk of nothing to show for it.

I wonder where you would stand if you had paid for a Lexus service which included a plug change, stuck plugs must be a fairly common issue given the lengthy service interval.

[Malc1]

22 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

I wonder where you would stand

no one would ever know they hadn't been changed ...........  except the engineer NOT doing it 

Malc

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Spock66 said:

I wonder where you would stand if you had paid for a Lexus service which included a plug change, stuck plugs must be a fairly common issue given the lengthy service interval.

I think the fixed price servicing comes with a clause about unforeseen issues. They probably wouldn’t charge you for the plug change if they didn’t do it but they aren’t going to risk stripping a thread and cover the cost of fixing the heads within the price of a service. 
 

I don’t recall anyone having this issue of a garage not being able to remove plugs - it isn’t a common issue. 
 

I’d recommend you speak with Lexus customer relations, given you have a vehicle that has been correctly maintained by Lexus dealers, and ask how they can resolve this issue for you. 

[Malc1]

32 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Lexus dealers, and ask how they can resolve this issue for you.

the voice of reason !

Malc

[royoftherovers]

9 hours ago, Malc1 said:

the voice of reason !

Malc

as ever.

[johnda]

Thanks to everyone for your input - amazing to have such a variety of opinion.

I remain in trouble without a garage who can take this on 😞

I may just carry on till it breaks - but this is not a good outcome as I do like the car a lot (130k miles over 12 years)

John

 

[Illogan]

33 minutes ago, johnda said:

Thanks to everyone for your input - amazing to have such a variety of opinion.

I remain in trouble without a garage who can take this on 😞

I may just carry on till it breaks - but this is not a good outcome as I do like the car a lot (130k miles over 12 years)

John

 

Following up from ColinBarber's previous post: https://www.lexus.co.uk/forms/customer-relations-contact-us

[Bluemarlin]

17 hours ago, Malc1 said:

no one would ever know they hadn't been changed ...........  except the engineer NOT doing it 

Malc

I don't know if that's true Malcolm. According to my service records my plugs were changed at 60k miles (6 years), prior to my ownership. At 12 years (97k miles), the plugs were changed again, and they gave me the old plugs back in the boxes the new ones came in.

The cost of that major service was £616, as part of my service plan. The usual major services are £459 on my plan, so not a prohibitive uplift for the cost of the plugs and the extra work required to change them.

If it were me, I'd check the service records to see if they changed the plugs at 60k/6 years. By default they would have done, unless asked not to. If they did then I'd insist they find a way to remove it and change the plugs, as they were ones who got it stuck in the first place.