Dealer using customer's car for business use

MadJam250 · October 14, 2022

It was Listers Cheltenham.

They believe that the satnav entry was added by accident by a possible valeter when cleaning the dashboard!!! I'm at a loss for words to understand where that excuse got dreamt up and why such an excuse was even forthcoming. Clearly they felt I was born yesterday. The satnav address is the same number of miles from the dealership to account for the extra mileage driven but they are denying that too. They also deny damaging my wheel/steering rack indicating that moving wheels from front ti back will always throw steering wheel alignment out. A) No it doesn't B) It wasn't right to return the car to me without checking anyway.

Avoid Listers Cheltenham like plague. The branch manager and nor the area manager want to know. So much for their mission statement about good customer relations being their primary goal.

Time to escalate further

royoftherovers · October 14, 2022

7 minutes ago, MadJam250 said:

It was Listers Cheltenham.

They believe that the satnav entry was added by accident by a possible valeter when cleaning the dashboard!!! I'm at a loss for words to understand where that excuse got dreamt up and why such an excuse was even forthcoming. Clearly they felt I was born yesterday. The satnav address is the same number of miles from the dealership to account for the extra mileage driven but they are denying that too. They also deny damaging my wheel/steering rack indicating that moving wheels from front ti back will always throw steering wheel alignment out. A) No it doesn't B) It wasn't right to return the car to me without checking anyway.

Avoid Listers Cheltenham like plague. The branch manager and nor the area manager want to know. So much for their mission statement about good customer relations being their primary goal.

Time to escalate further

Thanks for the update. Do keep documented evidence of all you find, receive or convey.

cruisermark · October 14, 2022

A simple thing I do when dropping off family cars at dealers is make a video of the car all the way round in their car park which includes the odometer.

MadJam250 · October 16, 2022

Are non Lexus dealers now able to service hybrid batteries? I have been using Lexus to do this annually to retain its annual warranty but was wondering if it would be good to get this done elsewhere even if that forgoes the extended Battery warranty.

Based on my recent experience I don't ever wish to set a food inside that dealership again and the nearest alternative is 40m away. My facelift CT is 8 years old with 93k and even if I did stay there I'm not paying £500 or thereabouts for the 10 year/100k service next Spring that's for sure. Dropping the much more affordable and brilliant Essential Care servicing package was the beginning of the end for customer care in my eyes. Arguing the Relax warranty is worth having for more outlay in servicing costs doesn't allow for flexibility/choice now; it's either that or go elsewhere. It's clear Lexus is only interested in nearly new/new servicing price hikes, I think. They forget that due to their overall reliability many will hang on to theirs for 5+ years from registration and it seems, from my experience, they are forgotten entities now. And even for used car sales prices, Lexus have become greedy, esp Listers in Cheltenham. For more costly compared to other main dealers elsewhere.

Sorry, I went off on a tangent there. But yes, if other garages are now able to service (plug in and read, I guess) hybrid batteries that would be good to know please.

royoftherovers · October 16, 2022

1 hour ago, MadJam250 said:

Are non Lexus dealers now able to service hybrid batteries? I have been using Lexus to do this annually to retain its annual warranty but was wondering if it would be good to get this done elsewhere even if that forgoes the extended battery warranty.

Based on my recent experience I don't ever wish to set a food inside that dealership again and the nearest alternative is 40m away. My facelift CT is 8 years old with 93k and even if I did stay there I'm not paying £500 or thereabouts for the 10 year/100k service next Spring that's for sure. Dropping the much more affordable and brilliant Essential Care servicing package was the beginning of the end for customer care in my eyes. Arguing the Relax warranty is worth having for more outlay in servicing costs doesn't allow for flexibility/choice now; it's either that or go elsewhere. It's clear Lexus is only interested in nearly new/new servicing price hikes, I think. They forget that due to their overall reliability many will hang on to theirs for 5+ years from registration and it seems, from my experience, they are forgotten entities now. And even for used car sales prices, Lexus have become greedy, esp Listers in Cheltenham. For more costly compared to other main dealers elsewhere.

Sorry, I went off on a tangent there. But yes, if other garages are now able to service (plug in and read, I guess) hybrid batteries that would be good to know please.

Martin,

The answer to your first question is No. The Warranty is provided by Lexus and has certain conditions attached to it. If one does not fufil those conditions, then one loses one`s Warranty.

Have you made contact yet with Lexus UK over your original complaint ?

MadJam250 · October 16, 2022

Yes. Awaiting a response.

LenT · October 17, 2022

On 10/14/2022 at 5:19 PM, MadJam250 said:

They believe that the satnav entry was added by accident by a possible valeter when cleaning the dashboard!!!

If only it was that easy!!

dutchie01 · October 17, 2022

For me the basis for every form of business is Trust. If that is not there one might as well stop immediately. Car dealers in general have a bad reputation because of this. My experience with Lexus has always been positive, As well as Saab in the past. The mechanic working on my car always came out to explain what was done and for instance had the worn windscreen wipers in hand when he had to replace them. Trust. I never had a case where the car drove a distance longer than 5/6 km for a testdrive let alone offset steering etc. From an official Lexus dealer you should expect a high level of decency correctness and trust, always putting the customer first. In this case clearly things did go wrong very badly. If it was me and they were clearly not taking me serious by giving nonsensical explanations about the satnav entry i would ask my lawyer to draw up an official letter with the request for a satisfactorily solution within 14 days. This to send to the Dealer M/D, salesdirector and especially the entire board of Lexus UK. All names and titles can easily be found on Linkedin.

royoftherovers · October 17, 2022

3 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

For me the basis for every form of business is Trust. If that is not there one might as well stop immediately. Car dealers in general have a bad reputation because of this. My experience with Lexus has always been positive, As well as Saab in the past. The mechanic working on my car always came out to explain what was done and for instance had the worn windscreen wipers in hand when he had to replace them. Trust. I never had a case where the car drove a distance longer than 5/6 km for a testdrive let alone offset steering etc. From an official Lexus dealer you should expect a high level of decency correctness and trust, always putting the customer first. In this case clearly things did go wrong very badly. If it was me and they were clearly not taking me serious by giving nonsensical explanations about the satnav entry i would ask my lawyer to draw up an official letter with the request for a satisfactorily solution within 14 days. This to send to the Dealer M/D, salesdirector and especially the entire board of Lexus UK. All names and titles can easily be found on Linkedin.

Not if you are not a member of Linkedin Bernard ?

dutchie01 · October 17, 2022

2 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Not if you are not a member of Linkedin Bernard ?

Its free John, setting up an account is one minute work

royoftherovers · October 17, 2022

1 minute ago, dutchie01 said:

Its free John, setting up an account is one minute work

I know.

I was.

But like I said, "if you are not a member of Linkedin Bernard."

Las Palmas · October 17, 2022

1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

Its free John, setting up an account is one minute work

Many things are free. All the so called social sites like Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp are free is you will share all data on your phone with them.

I have not one of these.

royoftherovers · October 17, 2022

33 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Many things are free. All the so called social sites like Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp are free is you will share all data on your phone with them.

I have not one of these.

A very good policy John.

Sadly, they are a must have for many, both young or older.

Las Palmas · October 17, 2022

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

A very good policy John.

Sadly, they are a must have for many, both young or older.

Poor people. Need to live on-internet instead of living.

royoftherovers · October 17, 2022

45 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Poor people. Need to live on-internet instead of living.

Not POOR as in wealth, but poor as in MIND

VFR · October 17, 2022

On 10/14/2022 at 5:19 PM, MadJam250 said:

It was Listers Cheltenham.

They believe that the satnav entry was added by accident by a possible valeter when cleaning the dashboard!!! I'm at a loss for words to understand where that excuse got dreamt up and why such an excuse was even forthcoming. Clearly they felt I was born yesterday. The satnav address is the same number of miles from the dealership to account for the extra mileage driven but they are denying that too. They also deny damaging my wheel/steering rack indicating that moving wheels from front ti back will always throw steering wheel alignment out. A) No it doesn't B) It wasn't right to return the car to me without checking anyway.

Avoid Listers Cheltenham like plague. The branch manager and nor the area manager want to know. So much for their mission statement about good customer relations being their primary goal.

Time to escalate further

Indeed as they are clearly giving you a load of caca el bull instead of addressing by our concerns / evidence and do do not leave you vehicle in the car of a prestigious company like Lexus to be treated in this fashion.

Assuming what you have written if correct.

MadJam250 · October 17, 2022

Well yes, I have no reason to lie.

During the time my car was with the dealer the steering-wheel became significantly misaligned and the car had travelled approx 25 additional miles. The car's satnav settings had been adjusted and an address had been inputted, the distance of which as a return journey would make sense for the additional mileage covered. Listers HQ have said that the enquiry is now closed yet is unable to quantify the reasons for both of these two observations. Someone at the dealer is covering up and/or is lying. A satnav address had been inputted and selected to travel to - I have never been to that address or had any reason to add it. I last used the satnav 4 days prior and the day after I collected the car I went to use the satnav for a new address and noticed then the history showing the previous entry which is a complete mystery to me. Only I drive the vehicle and no one other than the garage had access to the interior so only the garage would have added this address. I have never adjusted the settings to the satnav either since I bought the car 4 years ago, so noticing this and seeing a new destination added can only mean that the car had been used, with the new settings adjusted, for someone to have driven it, without my permission to that address.

The steering wheel misalignment was considerably out. As I have sought professional advice elsewhere, for that to have happened to that extent the wheels/ alignment or steering rack would have had to have been way out or damaged. Listers strangely did not notice this on my returning it to me and later argued that I was fussing unnecessarily and the remedy to rectify this was a cost they were reluctant to spend (despite it being their fault). The service advisor offered to swap the wheels over, prior to even up wear and again I was guilt shamed in to not paying for this - something that was offered for free. To rectify the misalignment and change the wheels around was told should have cost be £280!

The whole experience has been sour, nasty and deceitful. The branch has twice now said they are, in effect, pleased to lose my custom despite my 8 years of loyalty with them. At what stage did Lexus feel it was OK to start treating their customers so badly?

LenT · October 18, 2022

7 hours ago, MadJam250 said:

A satnav address had been inputted and selected to travel to - I have never been to that address or had any reason to add it

Would it be worth your while to visit that address and discover what connection it had to the Dealer?

Although it’s probably best not to go on your own!

After all - if I’ve understood you correctly - you’re dealing with someone who didn’t know how to delete a satnav address, but was engaged in some activity that involved a misalignment of your steering wheel!

As plots go, I’ve read worse!

Spock66 · October 18, 2022

10 hours ago, MadJam250 said:

The whole experience has been sour, nasty and deceitful. The branch has twice now said they are, in effect, pleased to lose my custom despite my 8 years of loyalty with them. At what stage did Lexus feel it was OK to start treating their customers so badly?

So you have two routes of escalation, Listers is a large network of dealerships covering multiple marques and ultimately that is the company that you contracted with to undertake work on your vehicle. So they will have a management team and Managing Director you can escalate to. You could also consider your local trading standards, although I suspect they are more concerned with actual criminal operations rather than just incompetence.

Lexus own the brand, but are not directly responsible for the actions of the dealer but would no doubt be concerned if a dealership is consistently under performing and providing sub-standard service.

Malc1 · October 18, 2022

Andrew ... are you able to specifically advise the actual Remedy you are seeking ? In simple short clear concise brief sentences

Bullet point-like so that they can understand easy enough

If it's summat like an admission of foul play or bad workmanship then that's rectifiable ....... I guess ............ But if it's not a specific physical remedy you're asking for then I'm doubting you'll get much further

Bad reviews on Trust Pilot or whatever might do something to relieve the frustration but I'm not even sure about that these days ...... does anyone take any notice of them nowadays ..... I doubt it tbh

I share your frustration .................

Malc

royoftherovers · October 18, 2022

17 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Andrew ... are you able to specifically advise the actual Remedy you are seeking ? In simple short clear concise brief sentences

Bullet point-like so that they can understand easy enough

If it's summat like an admission of foul play or bad workmanship then that's rectifiable ....... I guess ............ But if it's not a specific physical remedy you're asking for then I'm doubting you'll get much further

Bad reviews on Trust Pilot or whatever might do something to relieve the frustration but I'm not even sure about that these days ...... does anyone take any notice of them nowadays ..... I doubt it tbh

I share your frustration .................

Malc

For Andrew, read Martin Malc.

Too much West Country living eh ?🤣

MadJam250 · October 18, 2022

14 hours ago, Spock66 said:

So you have two routes of escalation, Listers is a large network of dealerships covering multiple marques and ultimately that is the company that you contracted with to undertake work on your vehicle. So they will have a management team and Managing Director you can escalate to. You could also consider your local trading standards, although I suspect they are more concerned with actual criminal operations rather than just incompetence.

Lexus own the brand, but are not directly responsible for the actions of the dealer but would no doubt be concerned if a dealership is consistently under performing and providing sub-standard service.

Listers have said the case is closed and assume I no longer wish to be their customer. They don't are.

MadJam250 · October 18, 2022

4 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Andrew ... are you able to specifically advise the actual Remedy you are seeking ? In simple short clear concise brief sentences

Bullet point-like so that they can understand easy enough

If it's summat like an admission of foul play or bad workmanship then that's rectifiable ....... I guess ............ But if it's not a specific physical remedy you're asking for then I'm doubting you'll get much further

Bad reviews on Trust Pilot or whatever might do something to relieve the frustration but I'm not even sure about that these days ...... does anyone take any notice of them nowadays ..... I doubt it tbh

I share your frustration .................

Malc

Trustpilot review to follow after a discussion with Lexus HQ.

ALAW · October 18, 2022

Martin what you describe is shocking I share your frustration. You have had some good advise from our colleagues on here. My experience previously when ringing manufactures they always refer to the dealership every time. As pointed out ensure Lexus UK directors are sent letters if they have anything about them they wont like what they hear. Your gripe is with the dealer so it wouldn't hurt ensuring Listers directors or the director for the franchise is also sent a letter. I once had a issue with a VW body shop years ago. I eventually got the owner to meet me with their business manager. They were shocked at what I showed them too long to describe on here. They asked me what I wanted to put things right. They did what I asked. like you have been told on here I had a timeline lists of visits phone calls who spoke to etc. I know this wont be of much comfort to you but I wish you all the best. i really do and i know others on will as well.

Osprey · October 19, 2022

I share some frustration here. My wife had a brand-new car from a VW/Audi stablemate and it had electrical issues from day one. Back and forth, eventually they provided us with a courtesy car until rectified. Whilst driving my car, we saw my wife's car on the motorway, being driven at excessive speed and followed to a point where a 'test drive' was more than achieved - if indeed needed. An email to the dealer principal and their head office resulted in us rejecting the car and monies returned. We went back to Toyota then and never regretted it.

Similarly, my BMW went into a dealer at the start of this year. dashcam removed, no pulled off its adhesive mount, after the car was being driven off site - it went in for a valet wash before return. Dealer says removing dashcam is company policy - why didn't they do it on the last 2 visits? Car returned in a shocking finish to paintwork, even went back in for rectification and was still poor.

In conclusion, Trust Pilot and BMW survey updated, will never step foot into that dealership again - even though this now means a 90 miles round trip to my alternative/nearest. BM have asked me in to consider 'an upgrade'... I am visiting the Lexus dealership on the same day. I don't think I'll make the same mistake twice 🙂

I sympathise with those who treat their cars well and not just a means to get from A 2 B. The dealerships in my opinion have grown too big in their portfolio and some are losing that personal touch.

Just saying.