Dealer using customer's car for business use

[MadJam250]

Is a garage, in the UK at least, legally and/or morally permitted to use a customer's car, that has been left with them for the day for some work, to be used for their own, business use without the owner's permission? 

[Lexiguy]

Hi Martin 

It is always difficult to consider a question like yours without comprehensive information about the individual case.

I have some experience in service management and associated legalities although this is my opinion and only by seeing a qualified solicitor will give you bonafide answer which would stand up to legal scrutiny.

I am presuming that the above is an event which occurred to your car or that of a third party?

You didn't say is this a Lexus dealer, a national company or an independent garage?

Despite the above I believe that:

Legally, I would imagine they are within their rights if the car is roadworthy, taxed and insured. It has been entrusted into their care, often with a signature giving them the right to test the vehicle as they see fit. It could be argued that incorporating a business errand in the vehicle and a road test would serve to give the vehicle a good test with no testing time to be attributed to the job.

Morally, I would believe it is up to the morals of the garage or employee, if they believe it is appropriate to use a customers vehicle in this way. The incident you speak of could be considered immoral but would not be illegal.

Regards, Anthony 

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, MadJam250 said:

Is a garage, in the UK at least, legally and/or morally permitted to use a customer's car, that has been left with them for the day for some work, to be used for their own, business use without the owner's permission? 

The answer to your question Martin lies within the paperwork that each of us signs whenever we leave our vehicle with the Dealership for Servicing etc.

[flookyk]

If any dealer did that with my car when in for a service or work required they would never get my business again.

[royoftherovers]

3 minutes ago, flookyk said:

If any dealer did that with my car when in for a service or work required they would never get my business again.

Please read the paperwork you are asked to sign Keith as you might unknowingly be authorising something you would wish to think seriously about.

Have no fear as the Dealership or whatever has a duty of care towards your vehicle whilst it remains in his possession i.e until it is returned to you.

[Boxbrownie]

Morally, definitely not…….but as to what you signed away when you left it there for the work to be carried out, who knows?

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, Boxbrownie said:

Morally, definitely not…….but as to what you signed away when you left it there for the work to be carried out, who knows?

I think that more Members will be wanting to read it  now David !

[Boxbrownie]

4 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

I think that more Members will be wanting to read it  now David !

Why?  Too many facts that include “we have the right to abuse your vehicle in any way we choose” 🤣

[royoftherovers]

2 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

Why?  Too many facts that include “we have the right to abuse your vehicle in any way we choose” 🤣

Because it has been mentioned on this Forum and has therefore been hightened in their senses.

Your wording in parenthesis will never appear.

[LenT]

6 hours ago, MadJam250 said:

Is a garage, in the UK at least, legally and/or morally permitted to use a customer's car, that has been left with them for the day for some work, to be used for their own, business use without the owner's permission? 

There is a distinct difference between taking customers’ vehicles for a test drive - and perhaps incorporating the opportunity to pick up parts - and taking it for a ‘joyride’ or a day at the beach!  

As has already been pointed out, if you’ve signed over to the dealer your permission to use your car in anyway they choose, then it may be hard to complain.

However, if your dashcam has recorded that in so doing, the employee has used your car in a dangerous, excessive or even illegal manner, then there may well be consequences.

I do recall one owner of a high performance car (Porsche?) running his dashcam videos and discovering two mechanics indulging in some high speed frolicking- which resulted in their dismissal and the loss of a wealthy client!

[Las Palmas]

Our car is today having 80K km service. Do not think they will even take a test ride in it. Supposedly a big service (50K miles?).

[Boxbrownie]

6 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Because it has been mentioned on this Forum and has therefore been hightened in their senses.

Your wording in parenthesis will never appear.

But I didn’t say you’d actually be able to read it as my parenthesis phrase, it’ll be in lawyer gobbledegook. 😁

[LenT]

15 hours ago, LenT said:

I do recall one owner of a high performance car (Porsche?) running his dashcam videos and discovering two mechanics indulging in some high speed frolicking- which resulted in their dismissal and the loss of a wealthy client!

I couldn’t find that particular video, but it seems that YT has plenty of other examples to choose from.

Here’s one in which the Dealer clearly recognised when a ‘test drive’ exceeds acceptable limits.  MB Bristol Sytner eventually offered the owner £1500 to keep quiet about it - which, as you can see, he declined!
 

 

[MadJam250]

I never signed any document prior to my car being worked on. 

I'd rather not name the dealer at this time to give them a chance to own up, apologise, etc. 

[Hillie]

32 minutes ago, MadJam250 said:

I never signed any document prior to my car being worked on. 

I'd rather not name the dealer at this time to give them a chance to own up, apologise, etc. 

@MadJam250  I am currious, could you share some context or background on this topic. 

It is an interesting topic especially as I often use the collect and return service my current garage provides for servicing, MOT etc as it is convenient but I do wonder what else goes on during the test drives and collect or return journeys.  So far nothing has surfaced that raises any suspicions for me but I insist on getting a copy of the collect and return paper work from the driver which I check for date and time just incase of speeding fines and additional vehicle damage etc.

[Andy B]

2 hours ago, MadJam250 said:

I never signed any document prior to my car being worked on. 

Me neither.

I think the only time I have ever signed any paperwork prior to a service or anything else is when I have had a courtesy car and the documentation given to me to sign was purely related to that. In fact during COVID times my dealership ran a system where you placed your car key into an automated locker and walked away - no human interaction (unless you wanted a courtesy car, which I don't normally do).

[NemesisUK]

Conversely, I have always signed on the dotted line. When the car goes for a service the type of service is noted on the paperwork, along with mileage etc.. If the car goes in for repair/investigation (when my sat nav module failed) the details of the reason for the work is noted, any comments I may have made or requests made are noted. Even last minute requests are then handwritten on the form and I'm asked to sign as I hand over the key.

That all said I've just read the T&Cs on the reverse of my copies of previous works and nowhere does it say anything about using the car 'off-site' The only acceptance of responsibility is for damage caused solely by their negligence.   

[MadJam250]

6 hours ago, Hillie said:

@MadJam250  I am currious, could you share some context or background on this topic. 

It is an interesting topic especially as I often use the collect and return service my current garage provides for servicing, MOT etc as it is convenient but I do wonder what else goes on during the test drives and collect or return journeys.  So far nothing has surfaced that raises any suspicions for me but I insist on getting a copy of the collect and return paper work from the driver which I check for date and time just incase of speeding fines and additional vehicle damage etc.

Basically. The day after my car was on for an MOT etc (see my other Rant thread) I'd realised some of the car's settings had been adjusted. The onboard computer had been zeroed on the MPG and the settings fir satnav (eg. North up) had changed. Then I noticed that a satnav entry for a residential street had been inputted that no one using the car would have done/has done. I rarely use the satnav so this entry stood out a mile. I calculated that approx an additional 25 miles had been covered when it was with the dealership. The counter argument from the dealer is that this was for a test drive and returning the car to me (1 mile). No one is giving an explanation as to the satnav entry. The fact too, as highlighted on my other Rant thread the steering wheel was way out of alignment, concerns me that something probably happened during this lengthy 'test drive'. The franchise isn't so far having any of it and have neither confirmed or denied the car had been used for business use. Things are not adding up. 

[Spock66]

23 minutes ago, MadJam250 said:

The counter argument from the dealer is that this was for a test drive and returning the car to me (1 mile).

Maybe they used your car to facilitate another customer's delivery / collection.

[NemesisUK]

26 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

Maybe they used your car to facilitate another customer's delivery / collection.

Incorporating the test drive, to assess the steering offset?

On that note one of the 'clauses' in the T&Cs on the back of the worksheet I mentioned above was the statement that time is not of the essence (or words to that effect) that I took to mean they would take whatever time it took to do the job (properly?) and would not be held to time estimates. (You being late for work was not their fault)

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, MadJam250 said:

Basically. The day after my car was on for an MOT etc (see my other Rant thread) I'd realised some of the car's settings had been adjusted. The onboard computer had been zeroed on the MPG and the settings fir satnav (eg. North up) had changed. Then I noticed that a satnav entry for a residential street had been inputted that no one using the car would have done/has done. I rarely use the satnav so this entry stood out a mile. I calculated that approx an additional 25 miles had been covered when it was with the dealership. The counter argument from the dealer is that this was for a test drive and returning the car to me (1 mile). No one is giving an explanation as to the satnav entry. The fact too, as highlighted on my other Rant thread the steering wheel was way out of alignment, concerns me that something probably happened during this lengthy 'test drive'. The franchise isn't so far having any of it and have neither confirmed or denied the car had been used for business use. Things are not adding up. 

I think that it would have been more helpful for this detail to have appeared within the opening posting. We could then have given advice which if acted upon on a timely basis might have LED to an early satisfacory conclusion and the possible dismissal of an employee.

Any way, we are where we are and will hopefully lead to the dissemination of some sound advice going forward.

[Spock66]

28 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

Incorporating the test drive, to assess the steering offset?

More likely no demo or courtesy car available.

[MadJam250]

52 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

I think that it would have been more helpful for this detail to have appeared within the opening posting. We could then have given advice which if acted upon on a timely basis might have led to an early satisfacory conclusion and the possible dismissal of an employee.

Any way, we are where we are and will hopefully lead to the dissemination of some sound advice going forward.

I only posted minimal stuff to start with to ask a simple, generic question without specifics or bias. I've included more detail for context since. I don't wish any one to lose their job over this, just a full enquiry, answer, an apology and some compensation. Lexus pride themselves on customer satisfaction and currently I feel like the title of a Rolling Stones song! 

[MadJam250]

49 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

More likely no demo or courtesy car available.

Quite likely, yes. 

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, MadJam250 said:

I only posted minimal stuff yo start with to ask a simple, generic question without specifics or bias. I've included more detail for context since. I don't wish any one to lose their job over this, just a full enquiry, answer, an apology and some compensation. Lexus pride themselves on customer satisfaction and currently I feel like the title of a  Rolling Stones song! 

Thanks Martin. The problem with posting minimal stuff is that everyone reading forms a different picture. The facts if presented fairly, without disclosing identities can lead to all readers starting from the same base point. Anyway, as I said, we are where we are and I for one will continue to watch this thread. Good luck.