help re replacement master key and alerting owners to substandard Lexus attitude to owners of 'old' models

[open top]

Thanks for links and input.

Possibly Lexus UK Technical may come back with a solution, but its been a while now. I will chase, but I'm expecting more of the tough luck, your problem to sort out attitude. Let's not be misty eyed about how wonderful Lexus UK are. They are fine when its convenient for them and when its not they are not.

Who knows I may be pleasantly surprised with an un-anticipated call and I will take all this back and publicly declare how they came through in the end and their customer service really is as good as the marketing claims or they may do something when I start really kicking up a fuss about Lexus aftercare.

As has been pointed out, originally 2 x 3 button (master) keys and 1 x 2 button (subordinate or valet) key were supplied when new.

This was a Lexus main dealer used approved car. 1 main key, 1 subordinate key only supplied by dealer when purchased used. Didn't realise when new it had 2 x main and 1 subordinate keys originally or was explained to by the dealer at the time of purchase loss of only master key supplied would be such a pain to rectify or would have demanded a second master key when the car was purchased.

Buyer beware even with a main dealer. Main dealer used approved means very little to nothing in terms of additional consumer protection and quality of service over buying independent or private. Waste of money paying for main dealer markup. Live and learn. Unless Lexus come up with something I won't be buying a second daily use car from them. Their loss.

My anger is with Lexus UK, not the car or all their individual dealerships, although on reflection I'd rate as poor the dealer this was purchased from.

I expected better after sales care from a company allegedly as highly rated for customer service and after sales as Lexus . My expectations would be less if I have purchased it non used approved or it was something 30+ years old. The SC430 is after all a model they are still selling dealer, used approved - 2 currently on the Lexus UK dealer website search at the moment.

Therefore as far as I am concerned Lexus UK Technical have an obligation to come up with a solution because they (Lexus UK) though their authorised dealers are selling used approved cars they will not /cannot maintain properly as they (Lexus UK) through dealers and service agents are no longer supplying certain parts. If they don't supply parts then they must come up with alternative solutions for owners to properly maintain their vehicle. ''It's too old now - you sort it out'' Really! When they are still selling the model dealer used approved is nowhere near good enough.

This is only (and I use 'only' with great irony and sarcasm) a master key lost. The car is useable on just a valet key, but its a pain and can be extremely inconvenient when the boot cannot be opened externally. The third button boot open function cannot be recreated on a replacement key from only the valet key being available according to Lexus. Lose or have keys stolen and you may be in unexpectedly large trouble. There are no more locksets and ECUs available to any of the 2,000 UK and 70,000 SC430 owners worldwide. What other critical components have Lexus UK on their not so old 'old' models quietly phased out? What happens if a component critical for safety or vehicle use fails on a car that was only discontinued 12 years ago? Tough luck, to the breaker you go, not our problem guv, we just sold you the car.

So again thanks to any that replied. Anyone who has any ideas if all or main keys are lost other than auto lock smiths which according to Lexus won't work- I wish it did, then please pass them on.

Regards

[Las Palmas]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

Not Rocket Science is it John ?

Absolutely not John.

Ask Colin and he will answer.

[royoftherovers]

9 hours ago, open top said:

Thanks for links and input.

Possibly Lexus UK Technical may come back with a solution, but its been a while now. I will chase, but I'm expecting more of the tough luck, your problem to sort out attitude. Let's not be misty eyed about how wonderful Lexus UK are. They are fine when its convenient for them and when its not they are not.

Who knows I may be pleasantly surprised with an un-anticipated call and I will take all this back and publicly declare how they came through in the end and their customer service really is as good as the marketing claims or they may do something when I start really kicking up a fuss about Lexus aftercare.

 

 

As has been pointed out, originally 2 x 3 button (master) keys and 1 x 2 button (subordinate or valet) key were supplied when new.

This was a Lexus main dealer used approved car. 1 main key, 1 subordinate key only supplied by dealer when purchased used. Didn't realise when new it had 2 x main and 1 subordinate keys originally or was explained to by the dealer at the time of purchase loss of only master key supplied would be such a pain to rectify or would have demanded a second master key when the car was purchased.

Buyer beware even with a main dealer. Main dealer used approved means very little to nothing in terms of additional consumer protection and quality of service over buying independent or private. Waste of money paying for main dealer markup. Live and learn. Unless Lexus come up with something I won't be buying a second daily use car from them. Their loss.

My anger is with Lexus UK, not the car or all their individual dealerships, although on reflection I'd rate as poor the dealer this was purchased from.

I expected better after sales care from a company allegedly as highly rated for customer service and after sales as Lexus . My expectations would be less if I have purchased it non used approved or it was something 30+ years old. The SC430 is after all a model they are still selling dealer, used approved - 2 currently on the Lexus UK dealer website search at the moment.

 

 

 

Therefore as far as I am concerned Lexus UK Technical have an obligation to come up with a solution because they (Lexus UK) though their authorised dealers are selling used approved cars they will not /cannot maintain properly as they (Lexus UK) through dealers and service agents are no longer supplying certain parts. If they don't supply parts then they must come up with alternative solutions for owners to properly maintain their vehicle. ''It's too old now - you sort it out'' Really! When they are still selling the model dealer used approved is nowhere near good enough.

This is only (and I use 'only' with great irony and sarcasm) a master key lost. The car is useable on just a valet key, but its a pain and can be extremely inconvenient when the boot cannot be opened externally. The third button boot open function cannot be recreated on a replacement key from only the valet key being available according to Lexus. Lose or have keys stolen and you may be in unexpectedly large trouble. There are no more locksets and ECUs available to any of the 2,000 UK and 70,000 SC430 owners worldwide. What other critical components have Lexus UK on their not so old 'old' models quietly phased out? What happens if a component critical for safety or vehicle use fails on a car that was only discontinued 12 years ago? Tough luck, to the breaker you go, not our problem guv, we just sold you the car.

So again thanks to any that replied. Anyone who has any ideas if all or main keys are lost other than auto lock smiths which according to Lexus won't work- I wish it did, then please pass them on.

Regards

R, did you email Lexus Customer Services as advised ?

[Malc1]

R hi ....  Not fit for purpose ........ comes to mind and if this is a quite recent purchase then you might have the option to just cancel the deal, do a Chargeback if you paid any of the cost by a bank card

The Dealer did NOT deliver the Goods fully ...  good grounds for a Chargeback in my mind 

Maybe this might focus their attitude a little more usefully towards your needs if this is an avenue you could pursue

 

Malc

[Bob King]

Used cars..your rights …

 

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

[Ken Timbers]

23 hours ago, open top said:

What other critical components have Lexus UK on their not so old 'old' models quietly phased out?

I found I had this problem when my car went back this week to Lexus to try to resolve a problem with the alarm system malfunctioning. The garage has put a lot of effort into finding a solution so far and I'm not going to complain about that aspect of their work. However, the search for the source of the problem showed that the radar component has completely failed and would need to be replaced if it's to function. However, the experienced technician doing the work told me that it's no longer available. I'm hoping that it doesn't turn out to be the source of the alarm malfunction!

[Lexiguy]

Hi Ken

One bonus is that if the part was available from Lexus the cost may have been astronomical.

For many customers it would then be embarrassing to suggest they fit a second hand one or get a specialist to repair the faulty one!

Good luck,

Ant 😁

[Ken Timbers]

I'm not yet sure what the implications are of not having this radar component. I think it's only the security system that's affected. According to the technician who reported it, the radar has nothing to do with cruise control and is there to provide an alarm signal if an intruder is detected. I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist over that.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Ken Timbers said:

I'm not yet sure what the implications are of not having this radar component. I think it's only the security system that's affected. According to the technician who reported it, the radar has nothing to do with cruise control and is there to provide an alarm signal if an intruder is detected. I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist over that.

If the interior movement sensor isn't working then smashing a window won't set off the alarm. Technically it is a microwave sensor, not radar. Without 'perimeter' security the alarm no longer can be classified as a Thatcham approved Cat 1 alarm - something your insurance company may have an issue with.

The SC430 doesn't have adaptive cruise control so there is no radar on the front of the vehicle for that functionality.

[Ken Timbers]

Thanks, Colin. I think you've just put a bit of a twist in my knickers! I'll have to check with my insurance what level of security they've got me down for! I don't recall any requirement to have a Thatcham approved Cat 1 alarm, but it's obviously something I've got to check.

 

[Malc1]

or maybe ....  just confirm to the insurers ( if you need to that is ) that the car comes with it's standard manufactured system -----  and unaltered if they ask

And leave it at that maybe ...  you don't have to go into the ins and outs of functionality .  you're no expert on that score and insurers wouldn't expect you to be I'm sure

Might help with your conscience and the insurers Qs

Malc

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, Ken Timbers said:

I don't recall any requirement to have a Thatcham approved Cat 1 alarm, but it's obviously something I've got to check.

There won't be a requirement for a Cat 1 alarm, but the insurance grouping of the SC is based on one being factory fitted and therefore if you know it isn't working then you should advise them - as you have publicly announced this fact you cannot claim you didn't know it wasn't working.

[Ken Timbers]

Thanks, Colin. I'll talk to my insurers and hope they don't decide to charge me a lot more—I have to say that I was amazed when I found out what comprehensive insurance costs for these cars. I decided to give up buying new models of Lexus simply because the depreciation made little sense when I'm doing so little mileage these days, but my insurance doubled, which didn't seem to make a lot of sense. I bought the insurance, of course, but I'm not sure that I'd have bought this car if I'd realised the cost at the time. I think it's a great car and I'm in no hurry to part with it, but the insurance feels like a rip-off, even though I did my homework in looking for a competitive price.

 

[royoftherovers]

55 minutes ago, Ken Timbers said:

Thanks, Colin. I'll talk to my insurers and hope they don't decide to charge me a lot more—I have to say that I was amazed when I found out what comprehensive insurance costs for these cars. I decided to give up buying new models of Lexus simply because the depreciation made little sense when I'm doing so little mileage these days, but my insurance doubled, which didn't seem to make a lot of sense. I bought the insurance, of course, but I'm not sure that I'd have bought this car if I'd realised the cost at the time. I think it's a great car and I'm in no hurry to part with it, but the insurance feels like a rip-off, even though I did my homework in looking for a competitive price.

 

Ken, How much is your  insurance premium with which insurer please ?

[Ken Timbers]

And for the record, I've now spoken with my insurers, who were content with the information and said that they hadn't based the quotation on the question of Thatcham Cat 1 or any other such level. I was told that my information was now recorded in my policy documents and I need not worry about it. I'm glad not to have any increase in cost!

20 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

How much is your  insurance premium with which insurer please ?

£1350 with Admiral

[Malc1]

Then we’ll never now know how little less it might have been with the Alarm intact ..... if any difference at all 🤔

 

insurers have a preponderance to simply charge extra for whatever they can ........ enhanced risk or nay !

Malc 

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Ken Timbers said:

And for the record, I've now spoken with my insurers, who were content with the information and said that they hadn't based the quotation on the question of Thatcham Cat 1 or any other such level. I was told that my information was now recorded in my policy documents and I need not worry about it. I'm glad not to have any increase in cost!

£1350 with Admiral

Thanks Ken.That is a ludicrous figure.

Is Ken a poor driver ? Does Ken live in a bad Postal Area ?Can Ken seek alternative quotations from other Insurance Companies ? Does Ken have any named drivers on his policy ? Is Ken`s car garaged at night ?

[Ken Timbers]

I have an unblemished driving record of over 60 years.  I've made three claims during that period, but each was for no-fault accidents and the last one was 15 years ago. I tried a lot of insurance companies, including the one I've been insured with for the past 10 years. I live in SE London in a quiet street. The car is on my driveway. My wife is on the policy, as she has been on all my past policies and has the same length of unblemished record and made no claims. I wouldn't have thought I was a bad risk, especially as I expect to do less than 4K miles/year.

I guess it all comes down to my being 87 years old.

[royoftherovers]

8 minutes ago, Ken Timbers said:

I have an unblemished driving record of over 60 years.  I've made three claims during that period, but each was for no-fault accidents and the last one was 15 years ago. I tried a lot of insurance companies, including the one I've been insured with for the past 10 years. I live in SE London in a quiet street. The car is on my driveway. My wife is on the policy, as she has been on all my past policies and has the same length of unblemished record and made no claims. I wouldn't have thought I was a bad risk, especially as I expect to do less than 4K miles/year.

I guess it all comes down to my being 87 years old.

Not too dissimilar to me Kenny except I am 12 junior to you Sir.

I would trawl Saga, NFU, and LV for quotes. Please accept my apologies if you have done so already, in which case you must consider relocating to Shetland !🤣🤣👍👍

[ColinBarber]

9 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Is Ken`s car garaged at night ?

Counterintuitively, garaged can be the most expensive option compared to driveway or on street. Thieves have time to break in unnoticed/undisturbed in the view of the insurance industry. 

[Malc1]

10 hours ago, Ken Timbers said:

to my being 87 years old.

NO  NO  NO   ...........  that's 87 years YOUNG  ...........

Malc

[royoftherovers]

3 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Counterintuitively, garaged can be the most expensive option compared to driveway or on street. Thieves have time to break in unnoticed/undisturbed in the view of the insurance industry. 

I know Colin. Seems that many don`t.

[Malc1]

when I was phoning round about my insurances for both cars I did understand that keeping the cars on the highway / parked on the road outside, was a benefit in reducing the premiums

Malc

[Glyn Jennings]

13 hours ago, Ken Timbers said:

I have an unblemished driving record of over 60 years.  I've made three claims during that period, but each was for no-fault accidents and the last one was 15 years ago. I tried a lot of insurance companies, including the one I've been insured with for the past 10 years. I live in SE London in a quiet street. The car is on my driveway. My wife is on the policy, as she has been on all my past policies and has the same length of unblemished record and made no claims. I wouldn't have thought I was a bad risk, especially as I expect to do less than 4K miles/year.

I guess it all comes down to my being 87 years old.

 

13 hours ago, Ken Timbers said:

I have an unblemished driving record of over 60 years.  I've made three claims during that period, but each was for no-fault accidents and the last one was 15 years ago. I tried a lot of insurance companies, including the one I've been insured with for the past 10 years. I live in SE London in a quiet street. The car is on my driveway. My wife is on the policy, as she has been on all my past policies and has the same length of unblemished record and made no claims. I wouldn't have thought I was a bad risk, especially as I expect to do less than 4K miles/year.

I guess it all comes down to my being 87 years old.

Well done Ken for driving a sports car at 87. Wow they certainly whop the premium up at your age. At 71 now, I hope to be still driving at that age never mind a sports car. The annoying thing about getting older is how insurance goes up. Apart from car insurance once I got to 70 my holiday insurance had a £55 pound top up and I have to pay another £50 for everything that’s wrong with me. Even my 2 year old dogs pet insurance I don’t claim on as this will increase the premium the following year which they say can be any amount and at 10 years old they will only pay out 60% of the claim.
On top of that all insurances now have an excess. It seems insurance companies only want to make more money without taking any risks which is ironic when that is the whole reason we use their services for so we end up taking the risk that they will even pay out.

[Lexiguy]

3 hours ago, Glyn Jennings said:

 

Well done Ken for driving a sports car at 87. Wow they certainly whop the premium up at your age. At 71 now, I hope to be still driving at that age never mind a sports car. The annoying thing about getting older is how insurance goes up. Apart from car insurance once I got to 70 my holiday insurance had a £55 pound top up and I have to pay another £50 for everything that’s wrong with me. Even my 2 year old dogs pet insurance I don’t claim on as this will increase the premium the following year which they say can be any amount and at 10 years old they will only pay out 60% of the claim.
On top of that all insurances now have an excess. It seems insurance companies only want to make more money without taking any risks which is ironic when that is the whole reason we use their services for so we end up taking the risk that they will even pay out.

Hi Ken

Fantastic, well done 87 and still driving a beautiful SC430. That is so good to hear and encouraging for us all!

Hi Glyn

I think we could be slipping into a grumpy old men's club but I will throw my two-pennth in!

The trouble is that guys like us with fantastic claim history throught our life with home, car, life, animals etc etc, it's not worth a jot! All they are interested in is raking in the premiums and in the event of a claim looking for an excuse not to payout or hoping the customer has a great big excess! 

I know it is possibly not true in all cases but I have heard about so many tales of woe, and besides I find a good rant cathartic!

Anthony