Catalytic converter security

[Hillie]

Intersting article discussing UK regional catalytic converter theft statistics.  They also discuss the most targeted vehicles and the Toyota brand scores highly.  3 out of 4.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/driving-1/2022-09/revealed-the-uk-areas-most-targeted-by-catalytic-converter-thieves/#

 

 

 

 

[LenT]

3 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Scumbag won't give two hoots about this, if you think hardened criminals are getting all soft about this you need to sharpen up a bit, do experts that you love not tell you criminals will get whatever it is they want to get done, they have resources - like exporting it, it's not like they will be extracting precious metals from cats next door to a police HQ in Birmingham or whatever - A Prius is going to be a target with or without a sticker saying that the cat is marked

 

Criminals - hardened or otherwise - tend to take the path of least resistance. So 'Passive' precautions - such as using a garage, parking under streetlights or against a wall et al can be effective and have the benefit of being free. They have been recommended by Police, Motoring Organisations and Car Manufacturers for many years.  But they're not available to everyone.

So it's no surprise that these same organisations also recommend 'Pro-Active' actions, such as Cat Shields (where available), Smar****er and etching systems.

In fact, in May 2021 Toyota (GB) announced that it would be covertly marking more than 100,000 CCs in order to help combat their theft.  They also issued 20,000 Smar****er kits to the Police to support their initiatives.  So clearly, Toyota believes that these are effective methods.

In Toyota's case, it was the second and third generation of Prius (2004-2009 and 2009 - 2016) that were particularly attractive because of the relatively high metal content.  More advanced technology has reduced the metal content of the CCs and made them less attractive to 'scumbags'.

 

[LenT]

2 hours ago, Hillie said:

Intersting article discussing UK regional catalytic converter theft statistics.  They also discuss the most targeted vehicles and the Toyota brand scores highly.  3 out of 4.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/driving-1/2022-09/revealed-the-uk-areas-most-targeted-by-catalytic-converter-thieves/#

 

 

 

 

An interesting article indeed, Paul, especially if you live in one of the high-risk areas - which fortunately I don't!

I note in the section headed:  How can I prevent Catalytic Converter theft?  that it also advises that you should... 'have a unique serial number etched onto your catalytic converter so it can be easily identified if it is stolen.'

Sound advice indeed.  👍

What I have been searching for - without success - is any indication of the comparative relationships between the CC thefts of those who had taken various security actions and those who hadn't - as an indication of their effectiveness.

As with most security matters, I suspect that doing something is better than doing nothing!

 

[Howplum]

Presumably joining the Cats Protection League isn't going to help!

[Hillie]

On 10/21/2022 at 3:34 PM, LenT said:

An interesting article indeed, Paul, especially if you live in one of the high-risk areas - which fortunately I don't!

I note in the section headed:  How can I prevent Catalytic Converter theft?  that it also advises that you should... 'have a unique serial number etched onto your catalytic converter so it can be easily identified if it is stolen.'

Sound advice indeed.  👍

What I have been searching for - without success - is any indication of the comparative relationships between the CC thefts of those who had taken various security actions and those who hadn't - as an indication of their effectiveness.

As with most security matters, I suspect that doing something is better than doing nothing!

 

Agreed,  doing something is always better than doing nothing.  IMO, prevention is the best option,  Cat Lock / Cat Clamp and basic security measures such as Off-road parking  / Private Garage Parking,  CCTV, illuminated parking areas etc. 

I am not sure that marking or tagging will bring any real benefit to us as vehicle owners as the idiots probably cannot read and wont care anyway. By the time the police or other agencies find your cat, and identify the owner (if the unit was forensically marked)  it will be beyond repair, and you would have already replaced it to get your vehicle back on the road.  Your insurance company almost certainly would have marked this as an 'At Fault' claim impacting your next premiums so for them it is a dont care.  Customer pays eitherway in the long term.  The forensic mark will only help the police in prosecution by linking the unit to a suspect and a known crime.

For the statistics, like you I cannot find any data that shows the annual recovery ratio of security marked Cats' or Cats' that were protected by clamps and locks.   Direct line indicate that number plates were the most stolen items closely followed by Catalytic converters at 40,000 units in 2021 and the crime rate is increasing.

• https://www.directlinegroup.co.uk/en/news/brand-news/2022/p71-2-million-of-stolen-car-parts---number-plates-and-catalytic-.html

My biggest gripe and one for the  LOC  'RANT' thread is this:  This is clearly a known risk to manufacturers, insurers, and law enforcement. Adding a CAT lock at the manufacturing stage with VIN marking included would bring much greater re-assurance, customer satisfaction and risk reduction.  This is no different to the 90's when alloy wheels were prime targets for the cretins leading to locking wheel nuts being fitted as standard.  I must finish this and also say: bad on Toyota and Lexus that still top the most affected vehicle lists.  <End of RANT>

[toffee_pie]

I've seen how quickly they remove these, the wives Jazz as per my previous post was a victim and on full HD CCTV - you are talking minutes, the Prius and more cars like that are higher off the ground so even less time - stickers or engravings wont do much in such a situation as its highly likely the car will be destroyed even if they leave it alone when they find out its been 'tagged'

 

[toffee_pie]

On 10/21/2022 at 3:09 PM, LenT said:

Criminals - hardened or otherwise - tend to take the path of least resistance. So 'Passive' precautions - such as using a garage, parking under streetlights or against a wall et al can be effective and have the benefit of being free. They have been recommended by Police, Motoring Organisations and Car Manufacturers for many years.  But they're not available to everyone.

So it's no surprise that these same organisations also recommend 'Pro-Active' actions, such as Cat Shields (where available), Smar****er and etching systems.

In fact, in May 2021 Toyota (GB) announced that it would be covertly marking more than 100,000 CCs in order to help combat their theft.  They also issued 20,000 Smar****er kits to the Police to support their initiatives.  So clearly, Toyota believes that these are effective methods.

In Toyota's case, it was the second and third generation of Prius (2004-2009 and 2009 - 2016) that were particularly attractive because of the relatively high metal content.  More advanced technology has reduced the metal content of the CCs and made them less attractive to 'scumbags'.

 

The 'path of least resistance' probably will be a mangled car at best - its not like they have grave concerns for the welfare for ones motor and replacing cats is expensive business, in my case several thousand pounds.

[LenT]

55 minutes ago, Hillie said:

Agreed,  doing something is always better than doing nothing.  IMO, prevention is the best option,  Cat Lock / Cat Clamp and basic security measures such as Off-road parking  / Private Garage Parking,  CCTV, illuminated parking areas etc. 

I am not sure that marking or tagging will bring any real benefit to us as vehicle owners as the idiots probably cannot read and wont care anyway. By the time the police or other agencies find your cat, and identify the owner (if the unit was forensically marked)  it will be beyond repair, and you would have already replaced it to get your vehicle back on the road.  Your insurance company almost certainly would have marked this as an 'At Fault' claim impacting your next premiums so for them it is a dont care.  Customer pays eitherway in the long term.  The forensic mark will only help the police in prosecution by linking the unit to a suspect and a known crime.

For the statistics, like you I cannot find any data that shows the annual recovery ratio of security marked Cats' or Cats' that were protected by clamps and locks.   Direct line indicate that number plates were the most stolen items closely followed by Catalytic converters at 40,000 units in 2021 and the crime rate is increasing.

• https://www.directlinegroup.co.uk/en/news/brand-news/2022/p71-2-million-of-stolen-car-parts---number-plates-and-catalytic-.html

My biggest gripe and one for the  LOC  'RANT' thread is this:  This is clearly a known risk to manufacturers, insurers, and law enforcement. Adding a CAT lock at the manufacturing stage with VIN marking included would bring much greater re-assurance, customer satisfaction and risk reduction.  This is no different to the 90's when alloy wheels were prime targets for the cretins leading to locking wheel nuts being fitted as standard.  I must finish this and also say: bad on Toyota and Lexus that still top the most affected vehicle lists.  <End of RANT>

I think you’re right, Paul.  Unfortunately, I was getting a 404 when I tried your link - possibly a couple of extraneous dashes?

Prevention is very much in the hands of the manufacturers.

However, with regard to this statement:

The forensic mark will only help the police in prosecution by linking the unit to a suspect and a known crime.
 

I would suggest that’s slightly dismissive.  After all, such evidence is at the heart of all successful prosecutions. 

 

[Hillie]

48 minutes ago, LenT said:

I think you’re right, Paul.  Unfortunately, I was getting a 404 when I tried your link - possibly a couple of extraneous dashes?

Prevention is very much in the hands of the manufacturers.

However, with regard to this statement:

The forensic mark will only help the police in prosecution by linking the unit to a suspect and a known crime.
 

I would suggest that’s slightly dismissive.  After all, such evidence is at the heart of all successful prosecutions. 

 

Here is the link again without the indented bullet point.  I tried a cut-n-paste and it worked.

https://www.directlinegroup.co.uk/en/news/brand-news/2022/p71-2-million-of-stolen-car-parts---number-plates-and-catalytic-.html

I may well come accross as an un-believer in the net benefit of tagging / marking to us as owners in the long term, but irrespective I am a supporter of doing whatever can be done to eventually bring the cretins to account.  I am totally on board with this, and all my work tools are tagged with Micro Dots but I have still been victim to the odd tool theft despite visible labels and to date not one item recoverred.   It would be nice if the vendors that market the ident kits / marking kits, published some impirical data to back up their claims. It would be good if the media that promotes these options as a viable deterents also research the topics to show how effective they are. Hence my slightly sceptical position.

 

[toffee_pie]

Link doesn't work, but manufacturers want money they don't care about the end user of people victim of cat theft.

[LenT]

15 hours ago, Hillie said:

Here is the link again without the indented bullet point.  I tried a cut-n-paste and it worked.

https://www.directlinegroup.co.uk/en/news/brand-news/2022/p71-2-million-of-stolen-car-parts---number-plates-and-catalytic-.html

I may well come accross as an un-believer in the net benefit of tagging / marking to us as owners in the long term, but irrespective I am a supporter of doing whatever can be done to eventually bring the cretins to account.  I am totally on board with this, and all my work tools are tagged with Micro Dots but I have still been victim to the odd tool theft despite visible labels and to date not one item recoverred. 

 

I tracked down the Direct Line Report and have tried inserting my own copy of the link.  

https://www.directlinegroup.co.uk/en/news/brand-news/2022/p71-2-million-of-stolen-car-parts---number-plates-and-catalytic-.html

As you rightly say, it only serves to highlight the increasing nature of the problem without trying to indicate the deterrent effectiveness of the various active and passive solutions currently available.

Simply knowing the percentage relationships between successful and unsuccessful attacks in the presence and absence of the various security measures, might be a guide.  But I think you have identified the crux of the problem: It's down to the car manufacturers to take responsibility for the security of the products they sell. 

16 hours ago, Hillie said:

It would be nice if the vendors that market the ident kits / marking kits, published some impirical data to back up their claims. It would be good if the media that promotes these options as a viable deterents also research the topics to show how effective they are.

Of course, we come back to the problem of authoritatively compiling such data. 

When I had to work for a living, I was occasionally involved in advertising and launching new automotive-related products.  I would always be quite insistent that clients should provide independent and authoritative research to support the inevitable claims that they made.

They would often say that they 'had a drawerful of praise from ordinary customers' and were surprised when I told them that 'a shed full ' wouldn't be enough to convince the organisations that controlled the accuracy of Press and TV advertising! 

In the meantime, if £25 spent on security etching deters even one cat thief, then in my book that's money well spent.

 

[Spock66]

23 minutes ago, LenT said:

But I think you have identified the crux of the problem: It's down to the car manufacturers to take responsibility for the security of the products they sell.

I think much more should be done to crack down on the rogue traders who knowingly take in stolen CCs, if thieves couldn't sell them on then they would not be stolen in the first place.

[royoftherovers]

4 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

I think much more should be done to crack down on the rogue traders who knowingly take in stolen CCs, if thieves couldn't sell them on then they would not be stolen in the first place.

Correct. It is theft pure and simple and Society is far too tolerant of those who do not conform.

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Spock66 said:

I think much more should be done to crack down on the rogue traders who knowingly take in stolen CCs, if thieves couldn't sell them on then they would not be stolen in the first place.

Undoubtedly true.

That was the purpose of the 2013 Scrap Metal Dealers Act which made it much harder - and riskier - to try to move stolen metal through the more transparent - and better paying- outlets.

Having your potential market reduced will give the buyer the advantage and probably reduce profitability and increase the risk.  But as ever, the key is enforcement.  As ‘Operation Goldiron’ demonstrated in April 2021, when resources are precisely directed, remarkable results can be achieved in just a few days.

[LenT]

20 hours ago, Hillie said:

For the statistics, like you I cannot find any data that shows the annual recovery ratio of security marked Cats' or Cats' that were protected by clamps and locks.   Direct line indicate that number plates were the most stolen items closely followed by Catalytic converters at 40,000 units in 2021 and the crime rate is increasing.

• https://www.directlinegroup.co.uk/en/news/brand-news/2022/p71-2-million-of-stolen-car-parts---number-plates-and-catalytic-.html

 

Well I have no idea what’s up with this link!

When I first copied it into my post, it worked.  Now it reports a 404 error.  However, I also have it on another page on my PC - and it works!

I don’t know if it conflicts with something in the LOC system.  Not had this problem before.…

[Andy B]

20 hours ago, LenT said:

Well I have no idea what’s up with this link!

When I first copied it into my post, it worked.  Now it reports a 404 error.  However, I also have it on another page on my PC - and it works!

I don’t know if it conflicts with something in the LOC system.  Not had this problem before.…

I think it's possible that the amount of dashes (-) in the link is confusing some web browsers. The following version of the link may work:-

https://www.directlinegroup.co.uk/en/news/brand-news/2022/p71-2-million-of-stolen-car-parts-%2D%2Dnumber-plates-and-catalytic%2D.html

 

[Andy B]

OK - so that alternative version of the link is still "hit and miss". 

Not wishing to labour the point but just in case anyone wants to access the link and content, I would suggest cutting and pasting the following directly into their browser's address bar (i.e. don't click on it from within this thread):-

https://www.directlinegroup.co.uk/en/news/brand-news/2022/p71-2-million-of-stolen-car-parts-%2D%2Dnumber-plates-and-catalytic%2D.html

Note to moderators - I think the "referral" link that the LOC web server adds to URLs is having an adverse effect on this particular URL.

[BigBoomer]

45 minutes ago, Andy B said:

Note to moderators - I think the "referral" link that the LOC web server adds to URLs is having an adverse effect on this particular URL.

And on many other URLs too. Why do they feel the need to even have a referral link, or is it part of the anti-scammer setup?

Back to the CAT security, most manufacturers and especially Toyota are already designing their new cars to make access to the CAT more difficult but it's yesterdays problem as full electric vehicles don't need a CAT and hardly anyone is designing new ICE cars. Once enough people switch to electric vehicles the scum will just switch to stealing batteries or whichever part they can get the maximum cash out of for the minimum risk.

[Malc1]

On 10/22/2022 at 4:11 PM, Howplum said:

Cats Protection League

do join, we're always wanting sensible Volunteers 

Malc

[Wolfie1959]

On 10/20/2022 at 2:51 PM, BigBoomer said:

And I'm guessing the station car park that you pay a small fortune for had no/crappy CCTV that showed nothing of any use to the Police? 
The CAT shields seem to deter them as it makes it a much longer job.
What you really need is air-suspension so that when parked you can drop it so low that they can't even get a jack under it! 
 

There is CCTV apparently, put in place by British Transport Police.  But when I reported the crime to the BTP and got a crime number, they replied saying they would not take the matter further even though I had pointed out there was CCTV there which they had installed!!  

[toffee_pie]

3 hours ago, Wolfie1959 said:

There is CCTV apparently, put in place by British Transport Police.  But when I reported the crime to the BTP and got a crime number, they replied saying they would not take the matter further even though I had pointed out there was CCTV there which they had installed!!  

Same as what happened to me, the woke cops won't do anything to apprehend crims nowadays so they can do as they wish - they will be in touch if you go speeding 5 mph over the limit however ; the hotel where the jazz had the cat taken had hi res footage showing them lifting the car up and the vehicle they used with it's registration plate clearly visible 

[First_Lexus]

https://news.sky.com/story/nearly-100-000-catalytic-converters-stolen-in-three-years-data-reveals-12777355

[b4u2]

Unfortunately I have been a victim of catalytic converter theft twice.

First was with my honda accord and second was with my honda civic which I'm still driving now. Just replace it with an aftermarket one as apparently they have no value and aren't targeted. 

[Malc1]

On 1/1/2023 at 3:21 PM, toffee_pie said:

Same as what happened to me, the woke cops won't do anything to apprehend crims nowadays so they can do as they wish - they will be in touch if you go speeding 5 mph over the limit however ; the hotel where the jazz had the cat taken had hi res footage showing them lifting the car up and the vehicle they used with it's registration plate clearly visible 

I think I'd be prone to checking out that villains number plate and getting me'self a baseball bat 

Malc

[b4u2]

@Malc1

Hi Malc

These thieves are ruthless and very dangerous, it's not worth messing with them.

I have seen on video how they even stop people coming out their house so they can steal your catalyic converter.