Underseal

pgtipple · September 17, 2022

Hi to all, I,ve got a RX450H 58,000 and have been thinking about getting it undersealed, any views or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,Rob

Bluemarlin · September 17, 2022

Getting it professionally undersealed could cost anywhere from a couple of hundred to almost a thousand, depending on how much preparation (cleaning off existing rust etc) and what they're going to do, eg all cavities etc. How much work is needed will in part depend on what the currrent condition is. I would guess a comprehensive job would be around £700.

Funnily enough I'm about to do my own today. At a basic level you could just get a pump spray bottle and spray something like ACF 50 all over the underside. More comprehensively, you could remove the wheels and arch liners, and spray those with wax, along with the underside and cavities, and check/do the brake and fuel filler lines.

Personally I think it's worth doing. Whether you pay to get it done, or do it yourself, depends on your preference/willingness to do it yourself or open your wallet.

Spacewagon52 · September 17, 2022

Do you mean bitumen underseal? Not recommended really. There are better products on the market. In the past, I have used Waxoyl using an electric spray gun. There are even better products available now. Someone will comment further.

Jaystar77 · September 17, 2022

That's true, have used the bitumen product which messy and takes a lot of prep as well as the more modern alternatives.

The Bilt Hamber range has a lot of very effective products if you want to dive deep into it, I used them on my more cherished cars with sound results however for ease of application the Lanoguard was really simple. Just needs a respray every year but as application is quick you could treat it as part of the annual check over. Heard good things about Dinotrol and POR15 but never sampled them. Would be interested to hear how others rate them.

From what I've seen on my own 2006 RX I'd recommend treating it as soon as you can, wish I'd done mine sooner!

VFR · September 17, 2022

One of the members used this company & gave a write up about it (I think)

https://www.southwestrustproofing.co.uk/

Bluemarlin · September 17, 2022

Did behind one of the wheels today. I used the Bilt Hamber stuff. I sprayed Dynax UB fairly liberally, and then Dynax S50 into any visible cavities, and found it very quick and easy to apply. Will probably use them when I get around to the underside, and then do an annual once over with ACF 50.

As Jay says, the sooner you do it the better. Last year I took off the near side rear wheel and liner, to check the fuel filler pipe. It was all very much rust free, and so I sprayed ACF-50 all over. This afternoon I did the driver's side and there was a little surface rust around the liner bolts, as well as on the outside of the sill, so I was glad I was able to clean it up and treat and coat it.

It's not the most fun thing to do on a Saturday afternoon, but there's a sense of satisfaction knowing that it should be good now for another few years.

PCM · December 27, 2022

On 9/17/2022 at 3:18 PM, Jaystar77 said:

I used them on my more cherished cars with sound results however for ease of application the Lanoguard was really simple. Just needs a respray every year but as application is quick you could treat it as part of the annual check over...

Sounds intriguing.

Lanoguard hasn't really registered in my brain before, but it looks quite good, and easy to do...?

Jaystar77 · December 28, 2022

I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to apply Piers. Longevity wise, it seems to be holding up fine on my caldina that I sprayed over the summer, was able to give it a look prepping for MOT this week. The winter weather over the next few months is usually the real test though!

That being said the Bilt Hamber Dynax spray tin is a good option too. The only disadvantage is that the application straw and tin is a bit harder to get into position in some areas. If you chose the clear version it dries to a nice matt finish that you can see through.

PCM · December 28, 2022

1 minute ago, Jaystar77 said:

I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to apply Piers...

Thank you, Jay. I'll give an update when I have tried it... weather permitting!

GSLV6 · December 28, 2022

I'd recommend Lanoguard. It has served me well for years on my cars and is environmentally friendly, easy to apply and exceptionally good at protection of the metal sub chassis and general underside. It's safe on all surfaces and won't damage rubber, plastic, paintwork nor anything else (just don't get it on your tyres!).

Bluemarlin · December 28, 2022

5 hours ago, Jaystar77 said:

That being said the Bilt Hamber Dynax spray tin is a good option too. The only disadvantage is that the application straw and tin is a bit harder to get into position in some areas. If you chose the clear version it dries to a nice matt finish that you can see through.

The Dynax S50 spray can comes with 2 foot long application lance, with a 360 degree nozzle on the end, so is much easier to get into cavities and crevices. It's not as hard wearing/setting as the UB, as it's meant for cavities, that aren't subjected to as much wear, but the lance can be reused and swapped between tins. I used a combination of both when doing my car, and found them easy to apply.

PCM · December 29, 2022

On 12/28/2022 at 11:27 AM, GSLV6 said:

I'd recommend Lanoguard. It has served me well for years on my cars and is environmentally friendly, easy to apply and exceptionally good at protection of the metal sub chassis and general underside. It's safe on all surfaces and won't damage rubber, plastic, paintwork nor anything else (just don't get it on your tyres!).

I'm curious...

Do you use ramps? If so, do you put up the back wheels, or front, or both, and work from... the back to front, or front to back, or both?

Regards.

Bluemarlin · December 29, 2022

1 hour ago, PCM said:

I'm curious...

Do you use ramps? If so, do you put up the back wheels, or front, or both, and work from... the back to front, or front to back, or both?

Regards.

Piers, I only removed my wheels to clean and do the wheel arches, as well as the fuel filler pipe on the near side. I was able to spray the underside with the wheels on and no ramps, as there enough ground clearance.

For the ACF-50 I used a pump sprayer like below, as it has an extention lance which gives you some extra reach and makes it easier to get at harder to access areas. I imagine it would work just as well with Lanoguard.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08N58758Y/?coliid=I3IPVH0UFFFCFJ&colid=203AFAPEB1ZSC&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

PCM · December 30, 2022

Thank you, Bill. That's very helpful.

Hopefully when the rain stops raining, I can 'do it'.

GSLV6 · January 12, 2023

I found I didn't need ramps with the RX. I was able just to squeeze under front and read and get to everything not already protected but yes, you could use ramps and move them from front to back and do each end.

PCM · January 12, 2023

On 12/30/2022 at 9:13 AM, PCM said:

Thank you, Bill. That's very helpful.

Hopefully when the rain stops raining, I can 'do it'.

Well... I've used Lanoguard and think it's great. Easy to apply, no awful chemical smell.

Yes, it does in theory need reapplying every 12 months, but the cost is nominal.

I did use ramps at the back, and it took about an hour.

m4rkw · January 12, 2023

My local garage undersealed mine a few years ago, I think they charged me about £150 and this included fixing some patches of surface rust. Will probably ask them to re-apply it soon.

EP80 · January 12, 2023

Once the Lanoguard has been on a while does it dry and go matte or does it stay shiny and sticky?

I was wondering about MOT and brakelines, fuelines etc. The "covered in grease" line seems to get used alot even on good brakelines.

Bluemarlin · January 12, 2023

1 hour ago, EP80 said:

Once the Lanoguard has been on a while does it dry and go matte or does it stay shiny and sticky?

I was wondering about MOT and brakelines, fuelines etc. The "covered in grease" line seems to get used alot even on good brakelines.

Never had problem with MOTs, despite liberally spraying everything with ACF 50. The worst you might get is a note or advisory, saying it's covered in too much oil/grease to properly assess.

The best way to avoid that is to do your rustproofing immediately after your annual service/MOT, so by the time it gets to the next MOT most of it has either dried or washed off, ready to do again.

mikesands · January 13, 2023

On 12/28/2022 at 11:27 AM, GSLV6 said:

I'd recommend Lanoguard. It has served me well for years on my cars and is environmentally friendly, easy to apply and exceptionally good at protection of the metal sub chassis and general underside. It's safe on all surfaces and won't damage rubber, plastic, paintwork nor anything else (just don't get it on your tyres!).

Is there any point in me doing my 400H at 177k miles when it looks pretty bad underneath at the moment? A guy who is welding my exhaust for me showed me a leaflet for Lanoguard and says he can apply it, but I wonder how effective it would be going on top of pretty corroded parts.

Mike

EP80 · January 13, 2023

13 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

Never had problem with MOTs, despite liberally spraying everything with ACF 50. The worst you might get is a note or advisory, saying it's covered in too much oil/grease to properly assess.

The best way to avoid that is to do your rustproofing immediately after your annual service/MOT, so by the time it gets to the next MOT most of it has either dried or washed off, ready to do again.

Yeah thats a fair point, so it has time to harden etc. Have looked into these a bit and there seems to be some different options for Lanolin based treatment. Of the ones easily available in the UK Lanoguard seems most well known, there is also Fluid Film which seems very popular in North America and also Corrolan.

Bluemarlin · January 13, 2023

6 hours ago, mikesands said:

Is there any point in me doing my 400H at 177k miles when it looks pretty bad underneath at the moment? A guy who is welding my exhaust for me showed me a leaflet for Lanoguard and says he can apply it, but I wonder how effective it would be going on top of pretty corroded parts.

Mike

Not many things are going to be too effective going over already corroded parts. Best advice is to treat or clean off any existing corrosion first.

That said, I believe there are Bilt Hamber products that claim to halt further corrosion, and ACF 50 claims to neutralise it. I don't know if Lanoguard neutralises it, or just creates a protective barrier. If the latter then I wouldn't put it over existing rust wiithout cleaning it off or neutralising it first.

This site has a lot of useful information about how to treat rust, and different products and what they do:

https://www.rust.co.uk/product/acf-50-anti-corrosion-formula-195

Bluemarlin · January 13, 2023

1 hour ago, EP80 said:

Yeah thats a fair point, so it has time to harden etc. Have looked into these a bit and there seems to be some different options for Lanolin based treatment. Of the ones easily available in the UK Lanoguard seems most well known, there is also Fluid Film which seems very popular in North America and also Corrolan.

Fluid Film looks pretty decent. I think I have an aerosol can of it that I've used to lubricate bike parts and, if I recall, it's a little messy, although most of these products are. Here's link to the Rustbuster page on it:

https://www.rust.co.uk/product/fluid-film-liquid-a-rust-proofing-original-71

The thing to remember with things like Lanoguard or ACF 50 is that they'll usually need to be re-applied annually, although it's quite quick to do, whereas a wax type underbody coating should last a few years. Personally I prefer to apply the latter initially, and then go over everything with one of the others, which I then re-apply every autumn.

mikesands · January 13, 2023

acf50 washes off exposed motorcycle parts within 2 or 3 winter rides, so I assume it will be gone from the underside of a car just as quickly. It does however penetrate nooks and crannies and if those nooks are not exposed to a jet of salty water from the roads then it will do some good in those parts. XCP is a compound many motorcyclists are switching to.

Mike

GSLV6 · January 26, 2023

Anything already pretty corroded can't usually be effectively treated, but what I have done in the past is using a stiff brush, clean off the underside, removing any loose rust then liberally apply ACF50 which can neutralise and prevent further corrosion, leave it a few days to really work in, then using a few old rags, clean it all up as bet you can, drying surfaces. At that point, Lanoguard will at least offer protection against further corrosion. I don't know why its not better known over here where it's made but the groups of off road enthusiasts calling their vehicles "overlanders" (modded 4wd exploration RVs in effect" swear by it in Australia and South Africa where a liberal application only needs re-applying every 3 years or so. Rain won't wash it off as it forms a durable protective film. It's all I use now. Videos taken by Lexus as part of my 450h servicing show the underside as being in very good condition and I put that down to using Lanoguard.