1998 LS400 window and door trims paint finish

[Razor61]

After sorting nearly all the main issues and niggles on the car, I'm ready to paint the black front windscreen screen trims and door trims.
They have black paint missing and look scruffy so I'm going to remove the windscreen trims and paint them. I'll need to 'mask off' the door trims and paint them I think, the 'Front Door Belt Moulding' can be removed but not sure how much of the door needs to be dismantled first. Maybe removing just removing the inner trim (Frame Garnish) will enable me to get to the 5 screws and 4 nuts for the 'Front Door Belt Moulding'. If that's the case I'll remove it and paint it off the car.

Question I have though is what finish did the car have when new, satin black or gloss black?
Does anyone know what the original finish was?

Thanks

[Malc]

Take care with the likely fragility of those trims .. being sacrificial to some window fitters in times past and NOT now being available to replace 

I know i had an issue many moons back with a replacement windscreen ......  so for the sake of painting I'd be inclined to be ultra ultra careful

Malc

[Razor61]

39 minutes ago, Malc said:

Take care with the likely fragility of those trims .. being sacrificial to some window fitters in times past and NOT now being available to replace 

I know i had an issue many moons back with a replacement windscreen ......  so for the sake of painting I'd be inclined to be ultra ultra careful

Malc

From what I can see the trims are bolted on. I'm talking about the LH and RH side trims or 'Outside Mouldings' on the windscreen, nothing else.

[Howplum]

The screws for the windscreen side trims are revealed by peeling back the rubber seal along the front edge of the door aperture. I am going to do mine, but I found that one of the screws was seized, so my current plan is to vinyl wrap them in situ. You will need to remove the rubber moulding at the bottom of the windscreen pillar.

To remove the vertical trims on the doors will probably involve some serious dismantling. I know that to remove the chrome trim involves removing the interior door trim, glass guide and glass before the fixings can be accessed. OTT!

It should be possible to vinyl wrap the vertical trims in situ, with very careful use of a craft knife. I did the little "buttons" in the top corner of each of the door glasses and it still looks good after 2.5 years. I used satin black vinyl.

[Razor61]

8 minutes ago, Howplum said:

It should be possible to vinyl wrap

Not thought of that, good idea👍
I’ll see if the screws on the windscreen trims are seized or not, if they are then it’s vinyl trim or paint them in situ.

[Razor61]

Just had a look at the 3m 2080 satin black wrap stuff, I think that’s the way to go for the door trims and probably for the windscreen trims as well, even if I can remove them ok.
Thanks for suggesting it Howard.

[Malc]

23 hours ago, Razor61 said:

From what I can see the trims are bolted on. I'm talking about the LH and RH side trims or 'Outside Mouldings' on the windscreen, nothing else.

yes, these are the ones I'm referring to ....  and with one windscreen I did replace ( under insce of course ) those silly simple trims were incredibly expensive .......  and then on another later windscreen, just no longer available

take care, do in situ if possible methinks

Malc

[Razor61]

8 minutes ago, Malc said:

take care, do in situ if possible methinks

I will be very careful, any hint of trouble taking them off - I'll stop and re think what to do.
The door seal looks to be very tight next to the trims, I'll have a good look at the weekend how easy it is to remove and then figure out if it will go back as it was.
I don't want wind noise after cos it's loose or something so if I'm not sure they will stay where they are.

[Supafly]

I too would err on the side of caution and follow Howards advice.  Excellent idea about using wrap instead of paint 

The windscreen trims are straightforward enough to remove.  I watched as my windscreen was replaced, but the installer did say that he has experienced the screws snapping off on these cars.

[Razor61]

Had a good look at removing the windscreen trims, I only looked at the passenger side. Suffice to say they are staying where they are, at least for now. Screws are in tight, I may have another go with an impact screwdriver if and when I feel like having a go.
At least I know what to do now to get the door seals off and then the trims. I also cleaned around the bottom where all the crud collects and the water drains through the inner wing, after removing the rubber cover things. Nice and clean now after degreaser and lots of water to clear it all out. It was very manky and worth doing.
Back to the original question of what the original finish was, if the finish was the same as the door trims then it was gloss black. I’m pretty sure the door trims were gloss and not satin. I had a brand new IS200 in 2003 and the door trims were gloss black.

[Howplum]

On my 1996 the black trims definitely look like a satin finish, although may be that's the effect of being outside for 26 years. If you opt for vinyl I think you might be disappointed with the finish. Get samples of both satin and gloss before deciding.

[Razor61]

Couldn’t help myself this morning and had a go at removing the drivers side window trim screws.
Got all 3 screws out without much trouble, tighten first or try to, then undo and I could feel them moving then worked them out gradually. It helps having a long ratchet screwdriver with a good quality new bit to get the purchase and torque, I just had a quick go yesterday with a normal screwdriver. No prizes for guessing which make of ratchet screwdriver I used today😉
Cleaned up the threads with a m5 0.8 die and wd40. Did the same thing on the car with a m5 0.8 tap and wd40.
Passenger side first 2 screws, lower and middle, were no problem using the same method. Top one………….pozi had been rounded (not by me) so cut a slot in the top with a piece of hack saw blade, took a while cos it’s awkward. Filed down a flat bladed screwdriver bit at the end so it fitted into the slot I created and the screw came out no problem. Cleaned all the threads up as above.
Trims ready to remove and paint, looking at the finish underneath the door seal where the sun hasn’t got to them they do look satin as Howard has said. I may look at getting them anodised or maybe remove the black paint and see what they look like underneath. Looks like they are a polished finish underneath.
The screws were rusty but not seized, they can be removed though with some patience unless they really are seized solid. If that’s the case they can be carefully drilled out and tapped.
Chuffed to bits now, door trims are a different matter though and these will be painted on the car I think.

[Razor61]

The problem screw which had the pozi rounded.
 

[Malc]

5 hours ago, Razor61 said:

Looks like they are a polished finish underneath.

and quite " silver polished " too where the black paint has worn/flaked/chipped off on mine 

 

Malc

[Howplum]

To paint them properly would involve removing the existing paint and abrading the polishing surface before applying etch primer, paint and satin lacquer. Vinyl wrap would be a lot easier!

[Razor61]

Removed the windscreen trims and sanded off the old paint, the finish looks really good so placed them on the car and took a pic. Looks really good on the car but they are being painted and 3 coats of etch primer has been applied. Tomorrow they will be gone over with very fine wet and dry, cleaned, wiped down with panel wipe and sprayed with satin black.
One of the thin rubber seals has detached so will be glued back on after they have been sprayed with the final coat and dried overnight.
There was some corrosion round the top screw fitting on the drivers side so it’s been cleaned, scraped and De-ox gel applied to work it’s magic overnight.
Whole thing should be finished on Monday, not spent a lot of time on it. It’s the time you need to wait for things to dry properly or leave to do their stuff.

[Howplum]

Or maybe spray it body colour?

[Razor61]

3 hours ago, Howplum said:

Or maybe spray it body colour?

If I had some paint I may have done but I’ve already bought the satin black paint.
flattened the primer this morning, 3 coats of satin black applied approx 6 mins apart and they are hung up drying.
Painted the bits around the screw fittings that were rusted with a touch up kit I bought a couple of weeks ago from Chipex to sort some stone chips. I’ve covered everything with cling film and masking tape so it doesn’t get wet where the trims are supposed to be.
Tomorrow, when the paint is dry, I’ll glue the rubber seal on and refit them.
 

[cruisermark]

sounds like this went well - they will be as good as new !

 

[Razor61]

17 hours ago, cruisermark said:

sounds like this went well - they will be as good as new !

 

They did look like new and it did go well…………until I came to glueing the rubber trim on one of the trims😠
I should have glued it on before I sprayed the trims. I didn’t realise the paint wasn’t quite dried/hardened so when I placed them onto some clean material to check and glue the rubber trim, the material left a weave pattern in the paint in some areas with just the weight of the trims. I wasn’t chuffed at all………….so with rubber trim glued in place now, it was back to the garage - cleaned them down and another 2 coats of paint. Left them for an hour then moved them into the house where it’s warmer. They will stay there for a few days before I fit them to the car.

[Razor61]

Job completed, trims refitted and I’m pleased with the result. Bigger job than I thought but glad I did it, if nothing else I sorted the rusty bits under the trims. The worse rusty bit would have rotted through in a year or so I think. There is some glue on the roof from where the masking tape was stuck for a few days but will remove that when I next wash the car. Leaving that for a few weeks to let the paint harden.
The paint is still soft but should cure and harden in a few weeks, I hope. Wax applied to give some protection. I nicked a bit of paint with a fingernail putting the door seal back, only a very tiny bit so touched it up with a touch up stick using the black paint I used, did it after I took the photos.
If there is a next time for this I would buy a second hand pair if possible, paint them and swop them over. There is a pair for sale on eBay but they are £55 each and were available before I started this job, if they were £20 each I would have bought them.
I might buy them anyway, will have a think about it.

 

 

[Howplum]

They look very smart.

[Razor61]

40 minutes ago, Howplum said:

They look very smart.

Thank you Howard, next job is the door trims in Gloss Black.
The drivers side is ok but the passenger side is pretty tatty and permanent black marker only last so long.
Removing them to spray isn't an option or practical, I don't fancy masking off the side of the car just to rub down/spray them and doing them outside with the time you need to wait between primer and top coats isn't an option either.
So I think your idea of vinyl wrap is the best option. I'll need to build up the paint where it's come off with some kind of fine filler or just spray the affected areas with some primer and paint and flatten so the surface is nice and flat for the wrap.
I'll order the stuff today when I get chance and see how it goes.
 

[Malc1]

16 hours ago, Razor61 said:

There is a pair for sale on eBay but they are £55 each

when my windscreen was changed many moons back the price new was maybe £200 a pair and the screen insurers blew a fuse I believe ............. 😂    oh dear how sad

 

Malc

[cruisermark]

Thy look smart - but I noticed both have the orange peel effect towards the bonnet end - why did the paint react?