To buy or not to buy? (The IS300H)

[Adj209]

Hi everyone.

I currently drive a Honda jazz 2006...and after getting a new job think I've been due an upgrade for a while. My budget is around 12-13k but that's really the top end. I think I'm ok with a car around 80k miles.

At the moment the IS300H from around 2012 onwards is my first choice. For that price I get a model around 2014-14 at 70-80k miles for around 12-13.5k.

I understand used car prices are the worst they've ever been.

My question is, is the 300H marked up that much? How much would the same car cost 2 years ago?

I can hold off on my purchase but I'm really really eager to get a new car as I'm looking for something nice to drive!

I'm also considering competitors such as the C200 saloon/estate, Octavia vrs, 320i

Thanks

 

[Ala Larj]

I wouldn’t worry too much about the cost per se as it’s impossible to judge whether or price will go up or down in the next couple of years. However, getting an IS or any Lexus is a no brainer especially if you want to keep it for a while. They’re comfortable, quality and reliable. Take a test drive and if you like it buy it. You’re almost guaranteed it won’t go wrong as long as you look after it and get it serviced regularly. 

[Adj209]

1 minute ago, Ala Larj said:

I wouldn’t worry too much about the cost per se as it’s impossible to judge whether or price will go up or down in the next couple of years. However, getting an IS or any Lexus is a no brainer especially if you want to keep it for a while. They’re comfortable, quality and reliable. Take a test drive and if you like it buy it. You’re almost guaranteed it won’t go wrong as long as you look after it and get it serviced regularly. 

Thanks for the response. Well everyone is speculating that used car prices will drop significant between spring 2024 and end of 2024 - coupled with the fact that the mark up rate is supposedly 30% higher than what it was, this might mean for a car now I'm paying 3kish more than i need to - which Is quite a big saving for me.

It looks like a great car. If I do end up getting one I'm going to get the windows tinted, slap on some black alloys and some interior mood lighting like the Mercedes 

[Ala Larj]

I’m that case wait 18 months and make a decision then!

[Adj209]

Just now, Ala Larj said:

I’m that case wait 18 months and make a decision then!

Haha - I know we can't predict the future, but if prices only dropped 1k next year I'd be happy because I could enjoy my lexus now! 

If it was 3k I'd feel a bit annoyed...

[IS300FSPORT]

Lexus attracts a certain type of character marketed or usually in the hands of the more mature people.

Dont buy it if you intend to do mods on it, it just does not suit this type of car. Its actually a bigger version of a Prius & everybody knows theyr not cool & dont have the street cred.

Saying that if you keep as it is without turning it into a chav mobile you will appreciate how well built they are generall very reliable in standard form. 

All the best!

[CypressPhil]

Oooh that’s a tough one mate. I can tell you that I purchased 65 plate f sport with 44k on the clock back in Jan 2020 and the value of it hasn’t changed a lot in the 2 and a bit years and 10k miles that I’ve had it. The used car market is bonkers right now. It’s impossible to say when it will change.

So the real question is, do you want to wait any longer before treating yourself to a new motor? If the answer is no, then for me the Lexus is a no brainer. Do yourself a favour and drive something well made, fairly rare and interesting to look at rather than being yet another german car driving clone. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, the BM is a good car to drive and a mate of mine had a VRS which he loved, but I’d choose a Lexus any day. 

[cadman2k]

Given the current and predicted state of the economy holding on a year or two may actually make no difference. 

It also depends on how you intend to purchase a car ( your own ready cash) or a bank/ finance houses cash that needs to be paid back. Given that interest rates are rising then borrowing becomes more expensive also.

Take the view on what your 12-13k will get you in Lexus terms v what it will get you in other terms ,(from the likes of ford/vauxhall). You may sharp conclude that even if you think that prices are high then what it would by you from another manufacturer just doesn't make the grade. By a car that's been looked after with FSH and you cannot go wrong when you should get another 80,-100k miles out of it if you continue to look after.

The market for cars just now is a bit like houses...put off and you just never know which way they will go in terms of value.

Good luck in your search

[Adj209]

14 minutes ago, IS300FSPORT said:

Lexus attracts a certain type of character marketed or usually in the hands of the more mature people.

Dont buy it if you intend to do mods on it, it just does not suit this type of car. Its actually a bigger version of a Prius & everybody knows theyr not cool & dont have the street cred.

Saying that if you keep as it is without turning it into a chav mobile you will appreciate how well built they are generall very reliable in standard form. 

All the best!

Thanks for the response. I get what you're saying! I'm 30+ , not chavvy I promise but I've seen IS with black alloys and I think it really makes it look a lot more cool - the stock wheels just don't do it for me. A light tint and black alloys is more than enough as I don't really care to do much else! The body styling is great already.

[Lex_1988]

Sounds like you need a IS300h sport with the blacked out alloys and wing mirror caps. 

 

 

 

 

[DavidCM]

If values do fall,then everything,no matter which manufacturer,will fall--with the obvious exception of hard to get Porsche or Ferrari.

[Adj209]

14 minutes ago, CypressPhil said:

Oooh that’s a tough one mate. I can tell you that I purchased 65 plate f sport with 44k on the clock back in Jan 2020 and the value of it hasn’t changed a lot in the 2 and a bit years and 10k miles that I’ve had it. The used car market is bonkers right now. It’s impossible to say when it will change.

So the real question is, do you want to wait any longer before treating yourself to a new motor? If the answer is no, then for me the Lexus is a no brainer. Do yourself a favour and drive something well made, fairly rare and interesting to look at rather than being yet another german car driving clone. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, the BM is a good car to drive and a mate of mine had a VRS which he loved, but I’d choose a Lexus any day. 

Thanks for the feedback. Do you mind me asking how much you paid? I'm trying to benchmark against historical prices but can't find much info..

True good point. We've got a little one on the way at the start of next year so it might make sense to get it soon.

I'm definitely going to pop into a dealer and give it a try. It is my number one at the moment.

 

[Adj209]

8 minutes ago, cadman2k said:

Given the current and predicted state of the economy holding on a year or two may actually make no difference. 

It also depends on how you intend to purchase a car ( your own ready cash) or a bank/ finance houses cash that needs to be paid back. Given that interest rates are rising then borrowing becomes more expensive also.

Take the view on what your 12-13k will get you in Lexus terms v what it will get you in other terms ,(from the likes of ford/vauxhall). You may sharp conclude that even if you think that prices are high then what it would by you from another manufacturer just doesn't make the grade. By a car that's been looked after with FSH and you cannot go wrong when you should get another 80,-100k miles out of it if you continue to look after.

The market for cars just now is a bit like houses...put off and you just never know which way they will go in terms of value.

Good luck in your search

That's a good point. I'm going to use personal finance for 5 years. I can afford to pay in cash, but at around ~250 a month that's a lot more manageable.

Yeah at the moment the IS is highest value for money especially considering the high price of petrol too.. Most reliable and most economical. Any FSH or specifically lexus dealer FSH?

True on house prices. Except those unlike cars will go up fairly consistently given the lack of housing in the UK

[Adj209]

4 minutes ago, Lex_1988 said:

Sounds like you need a IS300h sport with the blacked out alloys and wing mirror caps. 

 

 

 

 

Yes pretty much, it's beautiful.

The market is quite lacking in choice at the moment so I haven't seen many of these at all

[IS300FSPORT]

If it helps £16,800 for a 2015 F Sport in White & Rose Red Leather 

44,000 miles

Heated & cooled seats, Sat nav, 18 alloys etc

I paid that in July 2021 with a standard 1 year warranty.

& from looking online I havent made a loss yet. I was gutted at the time for paying around 1500 extra than what they were going for in 2020 but I havent spent a penny on it other than servicing & tyres which I changed out because they were budget tyres.

[CypressPhil]

1 minute ago, Adj209 said:

Thanks for the feedback. Do you mind me asking how much you paid? I'm trying to benchmark against historical prices but can't find much info..

True good point. We've got a little one on the way at the start of next year so it might make sense to get it soon.

I'm definitely going to pop into a dealer and give it a try. It is my number one at the moment.

 

I had to travel for mine and paid £16,300 from a BMW main dealer who’d taken it in part exchange, but said it was too good a car for them to send to trade auction. It came with a full Lexus history and had been well looked after. The same car locally would have set me back around £18,000. The value of it initially dropped like you’d expect, but then just kept climbing. At one point it was worth more as a trade in then I’d paid for it. The fact that I kept it rather than cashing out at that time says a lot. I could have leased a brand new well specced German offering for around £300p/m through work at that time, but chose to keep an older but far classier and more exclusive Lexus. The value has come down a bit now, but according to autotrader, the px value is now £14k and private sale value £15,700. 

[cadman2k]

I'm considering selling mine and upgrading to another Lexus but everytime I'm out and driving it I change my mind..Like IS300FSPORT it's only needed servicing the last 2 years and never misses a beat so reliability second to none

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Adj209 said:

My question is, is the 300H marked up that much? How much would the same car cost 2 years ago?

I can hold off on my purchase but I'm really really eager to get a new car as I'm looking for something nice to drive!

I'm also considering competitors such as the C200 saloon/estate, Octavia vrs, 320i

I would not say car prices increased that much, but the prices have not dropped as expected. So in normal market one would expect IS300h from 2014 to cost no more than £6k now. After all it is 8 years old car with 80k miles. Just as example I bought 2008 IS250 in 2014 for £4k, sure the mileage was on the higher side (122k), but it was 6 years old car. comparing more apples to apples I could have had 2010 car for £6k with like 60k miles. So IS300h are really not depreciating in line with the market. However there are many reasons for it, first of all economical hybrids are in higher demand now than ever, low tax, they actually look modern compared to competition. If you get right trim (the only two I recognise as being right are Premier and F-Sport), then they are well equipped... again if you get C200 or 320i it is going to be poverty spec. with so many blank button covers that is going to drive you mad. So they do exist in kind of vacuum where there isn't much competition for them, Lexus has not sold many of them and people who want them and know what they are are generally willing to pay for them. 

Now is £12k goo price for 8 years old car... I would not say so, but considering all the circumstances you not overpaying that much, perhaps £2-3k, but I assume it has to be nicely equipped F-sport ion good shape, at least premium Audio etc. If it isn't just hold on not until you find it cheaper (because you won't), but until you find the car which is in good condition, because from time to time there are cars in good condition. 

The other question you need to ask yourself - do you need a car with 80k miles or could it be over 100k? You see with Lexus relax the cars under 10 years old and under 100k miles command some premium, because they are warranted. But is it worth buying the car with warranty which will run out in 10k miles and 1 year for 2k more? Or is it better to find car in good condition which just gone over 100k and is maybe £2k cheaper? 

Now whenever it is worth holding off the purchase... I doubt it, you maybe holding it for years. Yes prices may drop, but don't expect them to drop massively. So if you going to wait, then wait for car in good condition, because if you waiting for price to drop, you may have to wait for 2 years to save £2k. At which point you will be buying car which is 10 years old for 10k and probably with 100k miles, which in my mind isn't that much better deal.

[IS300FSPORT]

100k + miles may be cheaper at purchase however long term it soon wipes out the savings & Lexus parts & labour is not cheap.

- Suspension shock absorbers springs corroded or worn out

- Suspension arms double wishbone rubber bushings wear out

- Water pump usually go after 100k, & coolant/invertor requires replacement

- Brake disc & pads likely due replacement too

- Aux belt

- High voltage traction Battery may also be tired

- Hybrid filter & fan requires clean and replacement

- Diff & transmission fluid replacement 

- Spark plugs at 120 (60k interval)

- Not to mention under carriage & bodywork suffer more corrosion at high mileage in the UK due to salty roads.

The parts soon add up so keep all this in mind at purchase & resale value also at a loss. Unless your good at DIY its v costly so be careful with high mileage examples. 

[Linas.P]

Nonsense. First of all when buying car with 100k+ you would expect normal service to be carried out in line with schedule, so water-pump, coolant, aux-belt are moot points - they should be done already. So buying say 110k mean you just missed few most expensive bills. Suspension, shocks other suspension parts won't be worn anymore significantly than they would be on 80k mile car. In fact mileage isn't even that relevant at all - car which did higher miles on motorway will always be in way better shape than low mileage car which spent it's time in city. 

Brakes and pads again it is in no way 100k milestone, you can buy car which is 40k miles but brakes were never replaced and it would need to be done, or you could buy 160k mile car with brakes which were done 10k miles ago. The sort of stuff you talking about here are standard points of inspection when buying the car.

Undercarriage corrosion will always be worse on low mileage car assuming they are same age, the car driven more has more time to get warm and dry out most vulnerable parts for rust like exhaust. The car which sits and just does local miles will be the one corroded the most. As well, a lot depends just on how previous owner cared for the car - again you can buy 160k car which feels and drives like new, because everything was done in time or you can buy 50k mile car which is trash because nothing ever was done on it. Again it does not matter how many miles you Lexus has, once it is 10 years old it will have no warranty and replacing car on 50k miles car will cost same as on 150k miles car. Now obviously, there are exceptions everywhere and all sorts of caveats, say if you buy car which was used as rental or taxi in the city with high mileage, then yes it will be trashed - city miles and poor maintenance is what trashes the cars. Although good way to avoid ex-taxis and rentals is to go for higher trim like F-Sport, taxis tend to be entry level trims like Luxury or SE (not that Lexus IS taxis are that common in UK).

Overall - low mileage cars are the worst value for money, the best value for money is to buy as new car as you can and with as many miles as possible. Again - if car is 6 years old and has 120k miles, then most likely it was driven on motorway, for long journeys and often and that is good for any car, if car is 10 years old and has 25k miles then stay away from it, it sat all it's live and that is not good. This obsession with low mileage car really has nothing relevant to reality. Sure there trashed out high mileage cars, same as there are trashed out low mileage cars - point is, mileage on it's own is not an indicator of condition of the car. When buying Lexus it is even less relevant, the key on Lexus is service history and no just stamps, but check invoices if you can access them, make sure that owners replaced what was required, not simply paid standard service prices and rejected everything extra for years. 

[IS300FSPORT]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Nonsense. First of all when buying car with 100k+ you would expect normal service to be carried out in line with schedule, so water-pump, coolant, aux-belt are moot points - they should be done already. So buying say 110k mean you just missed few most expensive bills. Suspension, shocks other suspension parts won't be worn anymore significantly than they would be on 80k mile car. In fact mileage isn't even that relevant at all - car which did higher miles on motorway will always be in way better shape than low mileage car which spent it's time in city. 

Brakes and pads again it is in no way 100k milestone, you can buy car which is 40k miles but brakes were never replaced and it would need to be done, or you could buy 160k mile car with brakes which were done 10k miles ago. The sort of stuff you talking about here are standard points of inspection when buying the car.

Undercarriage corrosion will always be worse on low mileage car assuming they are same age, the car driven more has more time to get warm and dry out most vulnerable parts for rust like exhaust. The car which sits and just does local miles will be the one corroded the most. As well, a lot depends just on how previous owner cared for the car - again you can buy 160k car which feels and drives like new, because everything was done in time or you can buy 50k mile car which is trash because nothing ever was done on it. Again it does not matter how many miles you Lexus has, once it is 10 years old it will have no warranty and replacing car on 50k miles car will cost same as on 150k miles car. Now obviously, there are exceptions everywhere and all sorts of caveats, say if you buy car which was used as rental or taxi in the city with high mileage, then yes it will be trashed - city miles and poor maintenance is what trashes the cars. Although good way to avoid ex-taxis and rentals is to go for higher trim like F-Sport, taxis tend to be entry level trims like Luxury or SE (not that Lexus IS taxis are that common in UK).

Overall - low mileage cars are the worst value for money, the best value for money is to buy as new car as you can and with as many miles as possible. Again - if car is 6 years old and has 120k miles, then most likely it was driven on motorway, for long journeys and often and that is good for any car, if car is 10 years old and has 25k miles then stay away from it, it sat all it's live and that is not good. This obsession with low mileage car really has nothing relevant to reality. Sure there trashed out high mileage cars, same as there are trashed out low mileage cars - point is, mileage on it's own is not an indicator of condition of the car. When buying Lexus it is even less relevant, the key on Lexus is service history and no just stamps, but check invoices if you can access them, make sure that owners replaced what was required, not simply paid standard service prices and rejected everything extra for years. 

Fair enough your entitled to your own view will leave it at that. 

[PaulWhitt20]

Hi,

The Mk1 Jazz and the IS are very different cars. My wife had a Mk 1 Jazz 1.4 DSI manual and it was a great car, She now has a Mk3 Jazz 1.3 Manual which is not as good as the Mk 1.  We use the Jazz to go on holiday as it has more space in the boot than the IS. Fuel consumption is about the same for the IS hybrid and the 1.3 Jazz, but that will depend on your commute. If it is short town driving you will get poor MPG (45 mpg), which is worse than the Jazz. Car tax should be £10 on an older IS.

The IS is a much nice place to be and I would rather drive that than the Jazz any day. The eCVT just works and is smooth and effortless. Don't listen to the comments about it being  noisy under harsh acceleration, that is only if you drive like a boy racer. Its great to waft about in. 

Hope that helps

Paul

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

Don't listen to the comments about it being  noisy under harsh acceleration, that is only if you drive like a boy racer. Its great to waft about in. 

You kind of disagreeing with yourself here - so it is noisy, you just saying "normal" driver should not drive it in a way that becomes an issue. And that is fine, I can agree with that, I usually call that - "learn to drive it like a hybrid", meaning don't accelerate quickly, cruise around or "waft about". Care does not reward you if you push it (which would be expected from "sporty" car), there is no way of avoiding eCVT drone, but I wouldn't even call it noisy, it just isn't pleasant or rewarding sound. As long as we don't call it "sports car with exhilarating performance" I think we are all on the same page.

That said coming from Honda Jazz... I am kind of lost for words... there is no comparison, it is all possible ways better car. Handles better, accelerates better, depending on exact Jazz, may even be more fuel efficient, much more comfortable, much more quiet - people will actually look at it and think "what a nice car"... which nobody has ever thought after looking at Jazz. So it isn't sports car, but it is very comfortable and well built, reliable, premium car. 

Likewise it is certainly better car than entry level C200, 320i, Octavia's or whatever stuff coming from Europe. Where it falls short is when you start looking at ~330i or C300 with £10k optional stuff on it, then BMW/MB will edge it on performance for sure, but even in terms of equipment. But BMW and MB has so many options that possibility of you finding one used with what you want is practically impossible. Other thing to note - I can recommend Lexus no matter the mileage as long as it was serviced. 80k - fine, 160k still fine for right price. That is not the case with BMW or MB or Audi, they will break and they will cost a lot to fix, Lexus is just much more reliable as long as it is serviced properly and that is why I kept maintaining my IS250 with Lexus all the way to 200k and never really had any major issues.

[doog442]

23 hours ago, Adj209 said:

Hi everyone.

I currently drive a Honda jazz 2006...and after getting a new job think I've been due an upgrade for a while. My budget is around 12-13k but that's really the top end. I think I'm ok with a car around 80k miles.

At the moment the IS300H from around 2012 onwards is my first choice. For that price I get a model around 2014-14 at 70-80k miles for around 12-13.5k.

I understand used car prices are the worst they've ever been.

My question is, is the 300H marked up that much? How much would the same car cost 2 years ago?

I can hold off on my purchase but I'm really really eager to get a new car as I'm looking for something nice to drive!

I'm also considering competitors such as the C200 saloon/estate, Octavia vrs, 320i

Thanks

 

My mother in law has a 2006 Jazz...I'd personally keep it until this market madness calms down. Cheap to run, super reliable and parts are cheap.  

Hybrids are getting a bounce due to fuel prices but that's starting to fall and so will your overpriced IS300h...I guess it depends on how much depreciation you can stomach when the market sorts itself out. In simple terms its the wrong time to buy a used car period unless you really need it.

Regarding the competitors, you probably need to to decide if you want a hybrid as its a completely different drive to a 320i . 

[Randomizer]

When I bought 300h, I test drove similarly priced petrol-Germans (with poor options, their base models just suck) and Lexus felt much more premium and exquisitive to drive, sit in and to look at. Sure the Germans are sportier and beefier to drive but on a daily, I'd choose Lexus any day of the week. Just much more refined ride and comfort. I'd rather compare it to bulk 5-series or E-class as much as comfort and refinement is concerned.

The hybrid versions with good specs however, the Germans may be better because they feel and perform more modern. However they are much more expensive to buy and to maintain and I'd be worried about the reliability of those hybrid systems bought second hand.