LS430 Mark Levinson audio problems

[Antharro]

Could use the forum's input on an audio issue please!

2004 LS430 with Mark Levinson sound system. Front door speakers have been refoamed, subwoofer replaced with second hand unit. Bluemusic Bluetooth module installed, connected fine to my OnePlus 6 phone.

 

Problem One

On my previous 2001 LS (also ML), I remember that I didn't need to set the bass particularly high for it to be really booming and loud. In this car, with it set to a similar level, most of the time, the bass is present but hardly impressive. When connected to my phone, I get more bass overall, but I get noticeably more lower frequency bass (even though I'm not running any EQ or bass boost on the phone).

Sometimes, I'll get GREAT levels of bass - it fills the car and sounds absolutely perfect. It feels like the bass is coming from all around, not just from the back, like I'm getting better frequency response from the front speakers as well. Exactly as I remember it in my earlier LS. Other times, the subwoofer rattles and clatters like it's failing, there's almost no mid-bass but plenty of low frequency sub-bass.

I've played around with the built in audio controls including the ASL and position. Position makes a lot of difference to the sound - ML obviously did some tuning for that. Apart from that, no difference.

The problem is at its worst when I'm listening from my phone, with position set to four passengers.

In an attempt to troubleshoot, I picked up a non-genuine sub from a Lexus breaker in the UK who sells them as a cheap option when your ML sub gives up. It had the same problems - not enough bass sometimes but other times it would feel like the sub was being overdriven or failing.

 

Problem Two

I don't have another LS I can use for reference here, but I'm sure that the volume isn't as loud as it should be. When listening to the radio or a CD, I generally need to have the volume in the mid-40ies to approach a "reasonable" listening volume. It needs to be slightly louder for the phone. I often find myself listening with the volume set to nearly 50; whereas I'm sure in my 01, I rarely got out of the 30ies. I'm sure this is affecting the bass levels; I remember in my 01 that as the volume was set louder, the bass level would drop slightly, presumably to provide a more balanced sound and to protect the subwoofer.

 

I *know* the ML sub isn't 100%, but I can't help but feel there's something else going on here. Maybe the amp? (I hope not given the price...). Appreciate any input you guys have.

[SpicyBlimp]

I use 25 when listening from the phone using bluemusic adapter, and about 35 from CD's to be loud.

[BigBoomer]

It sounds to me like your ML Amp (in the boot) is starting to fail. I believe that Reman can repair them but may be cheaper to try with a used one from eBay first.
They suffer from being made with zero-Lead solder and often fail intermittently or fail on just one channel (like the Sub channel).
I suspect that you Sub channel is intermittent which is why you at times feel the bass is inadequate and need a higher volume.
The Sub does fill out the sound and without it you need more volume to compensate.

[BMCWP]

I would start with a decent reference CD first to make sure everything works as it should. That way you can rule out (or confirm) the subs and amps work. Levels from external sources will vary from device to device and I find there is a huge difference in levels when using my Bluetooth adaptor with its onboard SD card reader using .wav files vs audio fed from the phone via Bluetooth (so effectively in that case I am amplifying a transmitted BT signal from my phone into a FM adaptor to be rebroadcast by the system so obviously its not going to be great.

 

[Micholas]

Man do I hate the ML sound system in LS430’s. My sound cuts out if the volume is barely turned up. Gone through 2 second hand amps that both do the same thing. Can only run it on the front two speakers at low volumes. 
 

Separately I also tried to buy one of those GROM Bluetooth adapters. That didn’t work at all, so GROM told me they think my stereo head unit is faulting as well. 
 

I’ve never had a car where I wish I could just walk in to Halfords and give them some money and get them to fit a decent head unit. Unfortunately on this car, you can’t do that, you just have to put up with it!! 😭

[Las Palmas]

You have new loudspeakers installed. Some loudspeaker systems have stiff membranes and will change their ability to play loud after having been played a while, some after a long while.

Never had other Lexus cars than the CT, but the quality of the sound is really far above what I have expected and if compared with after-market systems the price of the audio systems that are comparable to the ML in the CT will cost more than 5K£.

Some amplifiers will need at least 1F to stabilize the power supply in order to play bass loud.

[DavidCM]

The only complaint with my ML is that on some(particularly bassy)tracks the rear view mirror vibrates slightly to the music.Just noticed it for the first time today.

[BigBoomer]

22 hours ago, Micholas said:

Man do I hate the ML sound system in LS430’s. My sound cuts out if the volume is barely turned up. Gone through 2 second hand amps that both do the same thing. Can only run it on the front two speakers at low volumes. 
 

Separately I also tried to buy one of those GROM Bluetooth adapters. That didn’t work at all, so GROM told me they think my stereo head unit is faulting as well. 
 

I’ve never had a car where I wish I could just walk in to Halfords and give them some money and get them to fit a decent head unit. Unfortunately on this car, you can’t do that, you just have to put up with it!! 😭

Might be worth splashing out on a used head unit for £50. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284508073131
It says that the CD player is dead, but you could test it as is and if that fixes your volume problem then you can grab the CD player from your system and fit it to the working radio for a working radio and CD player. Then you can flog your extra ML Amp (or keep it) and put the old radio and busted CD player on a concrete slab and SMASH them with a sledgehammer! If you get a video of it, I'm sure some on here would appreciate seeing it. 🤣

It's no worse than any other 21 year old audio system. The one in my '98 Honda Legend was nearly impossible to replace as well and didn't have anywhere near the sound quality of the ML. The one in my '01 S-class worked well except that it would turn on/off when it felt like it and it was often a lottery as to which channels worked, but then the whole car was like that.

[Micholas]

1 hour ago, BigBoomer said:

Might be worth splashing out on a used head unit for £50. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284508073131
It says that the CD player is dead, but you could test it as is and if that fixes your volume problem then you can grab the CD player from your system and fit it to the working radio for a working radio and CD player. Then you can flog your extra ML Amp (or keep it) and put the old radio and busted CD player on a concrete slab and SMASH them with a sledgehammer! If you get a video of it, I'm sure some on here would appreciate seeing it. 🤣

It's no worse than any other 21 year old audio system. The one in my '98 Honda Legend was nearly impossible to replace as well and didn't have anywhere near the sound quality of the ML. The one in my '01 S-class worked well except that it would turn on/off when it felt like it and it was often a lottery as to which channels worked, but then the whole car was like that.

Haha very good! 

Well this post prompted me to call a car audio specialist in Crawley who are going to come out and have a look. They claim that they used to repair dozens of ML audio systems in RX’s back in the day. They’ve also said it sounds like a speaker, and they’re going to isolate each speaker at the amp wiring to see what one it is. 

Apparently when a speaker is faulting the amp goes into some protective mode and shuts off the sound. But they’ve quoted me between £66 and £132 so I’m not complaining!! I’ve never had proper car audio in this car since I’ve got it, so if they diagnose it for that it’ll be a steal!! 

[Antharro]

On 7/28/2022 at 9:41 AM, SpicyBlimp said:

I use 25 when listening from the phone using bluemusic adapter, and about 35 from CD's to be loud.

That's pretty much what I remember from my 01 LS. I never had to have it anywhere near 50.

 

On 7/28/2022 at 11:09 AM, BigBoomer said:

It sounds to me like your ML Amp (in the boot) is starting to fail. I believe that Reman can repair them but may be cheaper to try with a used one from eBay first.
They suffer from being made with zero-Lead solder and often fail intermittently or fail on just one channel (like the Sub channel).
I suspect that you Sub channel is intermittent which is why you at times feel the bass is inadequate and need a higher volume.
The Sub does fill out the sound and without it you need more volume to compensate.

That answers a lot, thanks. I wonder... given the zero-lead solder, would going over the board re-flowing all the solder joins it help any? Maybe adding in a little lead solder at the same time where possible?

 

On 7/28/2022 at 8:42 PM, BMCWP said:

I would start with a decent reference CD first to make sure everything works as it should. That way you can rule out (or confirm) the subs and amps work.

I'm using a couple of songs I know very well to figure out what's working and what isn't. The problem is definitely sub related and without it the whole system sounds "off".

 

On 7/31/2022 at 5:07 PM, DavidCM said:

The only complaint with my ML is that on some(particularly bassy)tracks the rear view mirror vibrates slightly to the music.Just noticed it for the first time today.

I wish I had that problem. I'm sure my 01 had it! 😀

Thanks everyone. I have some definite ideas where to take this next. Hopefully it'll be something simple and cheap, but knowing Lexus, maybe not!

[BigBoomer]

3 hours ago, Antharro said:

That answers a lot, thanks. I wonder... given the zero-lead solder, would going over the board re-flowing all the solder joins it help any? Maybe adding in a little lead solder at the same time where possible?

Yes, but if you are not used to soldering on SMD (Surface Mount Devices) circuit boards beware as you can cause a lot of damage. Make certain that you follow good anti-static procedures, use a temperature controlled soldering iron, and don't overheat any one connection. I'm pretty certain that this is what places like Reman do, but they are professionally setup for it.
If you have worked with SMD before and know electronics by all means have at it, but otherwise I would leave well alone and get the professionals to do it.

[Bluesman]

28 minutes ago, BigBoomer said:

Yes, but if you are not used to soldering on SMD (Surface Mount Devices) circuit boards beware as you can cause a lot of damage. Make certain that you follow good anti-static procedures, use a temperature controlled soldering iron, and don't overheat any one connection. I'm pretty certain that this is what places like Reman do, but they are professionally setup for it.
If you have worked with SMD before and know electronics by all means have at it, but otherwise I would leave well alone and get the professionals to do it.

Wise words.