What replacement 12V battery to use?

[Poundy]

1 minute ago, Las Palmas said:

If we agree that acid is not good for paint, skin and other things: AGM batteries are the right choice.

 

First time I remember seeing an AGM battery was in Toyota Supra 3.0 Targa maybe in 1984 - 1986. I noticed the label: Maintenance Free.

What a thing of beauty that Supra was.

[Las Palmas]

10 minutes ago, Poundy said:

What a thing of beauty that Supra was.

Disaster. ****ty car. Brand new, on a tour through Europe yellow warning lamp for engine lit up whenever speed was above 160km/h. Went to Toyota in 2 countries to get it fixed. Both places told that they did not yet have info about the new model.

Back to Switzerland where it was bought.

Traded it for a Nissan 300ZX. What a bless the Nissan was. 500% better than the Supra. Did not have a Toyota again before 2005 when buying a MR2 Spyder. Very nice also.

[ColinBarber]

14 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

I noticed the label: Maintenance Free.

That didn't mean it was AGM.

[Poundy]

9 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Disaster. ****ty car. Brand new, on a tour through Europe yellow warning lamp for engine lit up whenever speed was above 160km/h. Went to Toyota in 2 countries to get it fixed. Both places told that they did not yet have info about the new model.

Back to Switzerland where it was bought.

Traded it for a Nissan 300ZX. What a bless the Nissan was. 500% better than the Supra. Did not have a Toyota again before 2005 when buying a MR2 Spyder. Very nice also.

I had a V12 E-type around that period in time that had its faults but was still a thing of beauty. 😅

[Las Palmas]

14 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

That didn't mean it was AGM.

No, but it was sealed and no place to pour in water. What other batteries are sealed?

[Poundy]

10 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

No, but it was sealed and no place to pour in water. What other batteries are sealed?

They were first developed for the military and started getting popular in the early eighties for the higher end cars so possible to be AGM. There were also sealed wet cell batteries still available, considered maintenance free and more user friendly from a safety point of view than the top up type, so could have been either

[ColinBarber]

15 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

What other batteries are sealed?

Maintenance free flooded batteries have existed for a long time - where the plate materials and additional elements have improved over time to reduce the amount of water loss, and they don't include caps to top up the water.

Toyota didn't start using AGM batteries until 2000 and only mainstream from 2003 with the introduction of the Prius series II.

[SonnyA85]

If you really want efficient the. You should be buying lithium batteries. They will weigh many KG lighter, hold more power, can be discharged much lower and give out better power overall. You can upgrade both the hybrid and the 12v Battery to lithium. They aren't cheap but upgrading the hybrid means it can work up to 3 times the distance the normal Battery does. It can effectively pay for itself if you do a lot of miles.

[Las Palmas]

8 hours ago, SonnyA85 said:

If you really want efficient the. You should be buying lithium batteries. They will weigh many KG lighter, hold more power, can be discharged much lower and give out better power overall. You can upgrade both the hybrid and the 12v battery to lithium. They aren't cheap but upgrading the hybrid means it can work up to 3 times the distance the normal battery does. It can effectively pay for itself if you do a lot of miles.

It was quite a revelation. If true, a CT could become a 3L/100km car. Do you believe that?

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas said:

If true, a CT could become a 3L/100km car. Do you believe that?

The hybrid system in the CT requires the petrol engine to run when travelling at moderate to high speed and the electric motor itself isn't that powerful which means the petrol engine is running and assisting quite often. Therefore increasing the size/capacity of the Battery has diminishing returns.

Moving to Lithium would therefore probably only have a maximum of 10% improvement in economy, but with a higher vehicle purchase price which is why Toyota stuck with NiMh batteries for most of their hybrids.

Not many vehicles use Lithium for the 12 v aux Battery - too expensive, charging is more complex and with most Lithium based cells you cannot get to 12.8 v (cells are 3.7 v so 4x would be 15.8 v) so you either need to upgrade the vehicle's voltage (and all the systems that work from that voltage) or add in an expensive DC-DC converter. Newer LFP/LiFePO cells at 3.2 v are ideal - so maybe these will become standard fitment in the future.

[Las Palmas]

48 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Not many vehicles use Lithium for the 12 v aux battery - too expensive, charging is more complex and with most Lithium based cells you cannot get to 12.8 v (cells are 3.7 v so 4x would be 15.8 v) so you either need to upgrade the vehicle's voltage (and all the systems that work from that voltage) or add in an expensive DC-DC converter. Newer LFP/LiFePO cells at 3.2 v are ideal - so maybe these will become standard fitment in the future.

 

14.8V is correct.

No! I do not believe that what was claimed is correct.

What will come in the future is not for me to predict.

 

Only ??????€ for 12.8V if these are the new cells. Enough power to start the computer is all that is needed - yes? Will they need cooling or ventilation?

https://www.manomano.es/baterias-solares-y-eolicas-2259?model_id=27532032&referer_id=703210&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuZjEif-T-gIV45PVCh25fAqdEAQYAyABEgKZqvD_BwE

[SonnyA85]

Try £2000

 

https://projectlithium.com/products/prius-lithium-replacement-pack

 

1. 1/2 of the weight of the original Battery pack Stock NiMH Battery weights 80 lbs! Dr. Prius lithium pack weight less than 35 lbs.

2. 4 times more power Nexcell lithium pack delivers 260Amp peak power compared to 100Amp peak power from stock NiMH Battery.

3. Better fuel economy with improved EV range Nexcell lithium pack maintain at an optimal voltage range to trick the computer in running more on electric power. Resulting in better fuel economy.

4. Highest Level of safety Nexcell LiFePO4 lithium solution is proven to be safe and has been tested in extreme conditions around the world (sub-zero temperature, extreme humidity, extreme desert heat) with more than half million miles logged, checkout all testing video on YouTube keyword "dr. prius lithium test".

5. Toxic free No more hazardous chemical from a NiMH chemistry pack.

5. Affordability Nexcell Lithium Upgrade Battery replacement costs less than stock Toyota replacement! We searched and purchased large quantities of the highest quality LiFePO4 cells and translate the saving onto customers.

[Las Palmas]

9 hours ago, SonnyA85 said:

Try £2000

 

https://projectlithium.com/products/prius-lithium-replacement-pack

 

1. 1/2 of the weight of the original battery pack Stock NiMH battery weights 80 lbs! Dr. Prius lithium pack weight less than 35 lbs.

2. 4 times more power Nexcell lithium pack delivers 260Amp peak power compared to 100Amp peak power from stock NiMH battery.

3. Better fuel economy with improved EV range Nexcell lithium pack maintain at an optimal voltage range to trick the computer in running more on electric power. Resulting in better fuel economy.

4. Highest Level of safety Nexcell LiFePO4 lithium solution is proven to be safe and has been tested in extreme conditions around the world (sub-zero temperature, extreme humidity, extreme desert heat) with more than half million miles logged, checkout all testing video on YouTube keyword "dr. prius lithium test".

5. Toxic free No more hazardous chemical from a NiMH chemistry pack.

5. Affordability Nexcell Lithium Upgrade Battery replacement costs less than stock Toyota replacement! We searched and purchased large quantities of the highest quality LiFePO4 cells and translate the saving onto customers.

If something sounds too good to be true, it often is.

Do you know if all parts are delivered in order to change from the NiMH to LiIon and AGM to LiFePo4 so a skilled technician can do the job? Have you any idea of the total cost?

It sounds too good to be true.

[SonnyA85]

23 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

If something sounds too good to be true, it often is.

Do you know if all parts are delivered in order to change from the NiMH to LiIon and AGM to LiFePo4 so a skilled technician can do the job? Have you any idea of the total cost?

It sounds too good to be true.

It's an American company and you would need to go on American forums and ask people who have bought it.

 

At one point your hybrid Battery will die. You will then have options.

 

Do you just run the car inefficiently using just petrol and get poor mpg.

 

Get a new Battery. New or refurbished.

 

Repair your current or refurbish your current Battery.

 

Plenty of people have been in this situation in America and some decided to upgrade to lithium.

 

I don't see anything that's too good to be true we all know lithium is much better than other older Battery methods.

[northernstar]

there was a place in the uk a few years ago selling these or something very similar.

[Poundy]

Not really worth contemplating when the yearly Lexus hybrid check gives you free Hybrid Battery warranty for 15 years.

Chances are most will have moved the car on by then and those that haven't may think a replacement is good value'

Of all the cars I have owned or own the CT is the only one that has cost me zilch in repair costs (just servicing) so if I have to put my hand in my pocket after over 15year I will be well pleased 😄

[SonnyA85]

On 9/16/2022 at 6:48 PM, Poundy said:

Not really worth contemplating when the yearly Lexus hybrid check gives you free Hybrid battery warranty for 15 years.

Chances are most will have moved the car on by then and those that haven't may think a replacement is good value'

Of all the cars I have owned or own the CT is the only one that has cost me zilch in repair costs (just servicing) so if I have to put my hand in my pocket after over 15year I will be well pleased 😄

I've had to do some minor repairs but now I am getting it serviced by an indy for buttons compared to dealer and he will also be able to do repairs for buttons too.

 

Also the warranty only covers 10 years or younger vehicles and below 100k miles I thought. The car is just a fancy Prius at the end of the day. Fantastic car but the Prius has been around for several decades now and ironed out majority of issues over that time and refined the car.

 

There are people who have done crazy miles in a Prius and now in this car too. It's a very well made car and a good price too. I plan on keeping this car until either it's uneconomical to repair or uneconomical to run because petrol is now £3+ a litre and electric cars are cheap. I normally upgrade every 4 years but I plan on keeping this and my BMW until they die or I'm forced to give them up.

[ColinBarber]

21 hours ago, SonnyA85 said:

Also the warranty only covers 10 years or younger vehicles and below 100k miles I thought.

The hybrid health check in the UK (part of a service, or available separately) covers your hybrid Battery for 12 months/10k miles and will be issued for vehicles less than 15 years old.

[Vadim]

On 7/25/2022 at 7:39 PM, ColinBarber said:

3rd party are fine but you ideally want an AGM battery and certainly one that can take a vent hose.

Couple of notes:

1. The vent house adapters of more popular size can be sourced from Halfords.

2. There was a heated discussion on the value-added of AGM batteries. The AGM's primary advantage is higher tolerance to deep-discharge (>50% and under 12V). Where the standard lead-acid Battery start to loose its capacity due to discharge, the AGM would hold for a few hundred cycles. This is why AGM batteries in Lexus Hybrids tend to last years. The secondary advantage discussed was the fact that AGM batteries contain acid in gel pads, and don't spill in accident. In my view this is non-critical, as the acid is diluted, and anyway if you smash you car in a way when the Battery is crashed and forced into the saloon, the acid leak will probably be of relatively little concern.

Overall, if you want the replacement Battery to last 5+ years, go for AGM, despite higher price.