Jacking RX450h using supplied Scissor Jack and handle

[Barry14UK]

At the last service I was told the front discs and pads needed changing on my RX450h.  I have not done many miles since but have a longish trip coming up soon, so decided I would take a wheel off and check whether I could leave it until after my trip.  Admittingly, I have never jacked any car quite so heavy hitherto and the jack for those located in various ways on through or under a reinforced sill.  This meant it was a short reach making it comparatively easy to operate.  However, the scissor jack locates well inboard on the RX and the means of turning as supplied is long and of small if solid section.  This 'handle' although the jack was well greased, proved very difficult to operate and required so much force that it twisted about under torque. (A very feeble effort by Lexus). I am not surprised that people tend to leave it to Rescue Services to change wheel/tyre at roadside!  I have a long reach trolley jack for when I do the job at home plus of course axle stands.

The car has circa 45K miles and the pads will indeed need changing soon after my trip.  There is minimal wear on the disc and assuming other disc shows similar wear, I will check whether I can get these machined locally and remain comfortably within spec at reasonable cost  and if not buy new replacements.

[Spock66]

The supplied wheel nut wrenches are usually rubbish too, I always keep a decent quality one in the boot.

[Barry14UK]

3 hours ago, Spock66 said:

The supplied wheel nut wrenches are usually rubbish too, I always keep a decent quality one in the boot.

Agreed and this aspect is true for just about all cars.  I use a socket with short extension and T bar with 1/2" drive and two short lengths of tube to extend leverage to undo as garages/tyre shops sometimes over tighten.  Then for final refixing I also carry a spare torque wrench and tighten in a correct pattern.

Reverting to the scissor  jack, it would have helped if Lexus had used a lower gear. I could produce a better handle but for the number of times it is used, I will do like others and call Rescue Services should the need  arise when away from home.

[cruisermark]

Agrred - I have been meaning to change the front brake pads on my 430 myself - but don't have the confidence in the supplied jack.

[LenT]

8 hours ago, cruisermark said:

 - but don't have the confidence in the supplied jack.

And rightly so, Mark.

I presume you’re referring to its security.  So I take it that you don’t have a pair of axle stands.  This sort of thing:

https://www.halfords.com/tools/garage-workshop/axle-stands-trolley-jacks/halfords-advanced-2-tonne-ratchet-axle-stands-657131.html?istCompanyId=b8708c57-7a02-4cf6-b2c0-dc36b54a327e&istFeedId=367c5610-f937-4c81-8609-f84582324cd6&istItemId=wrxqixrqt&istBid=t&_$ja=tsid:|cid:17363835999|agid:|tid:|crid:|nw:x|rnd:12545023101212641209|dvc:t|adp:|mt:|loc:1006551&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIt_7PrKSN-QIVDOztCh1v5QidEAQYBCABEgLgbPD_BwE

And of course the wheel you take off is placed under the chassis so that, if everything fails, that’s what the car drops on to.

And if you planned to do more work, good trolley jacks are very reasonable.

My apologies if you already do all this!  🙂

[cruisermark]

11 hours ago, LenT said:

And rightly so, Mark.

I presume you’re referring to its security.  So I take it that you don’t have a pair of axle stands.  This sort of thing:

https://www.halfords.com/tools/garage-workshop/axle-stands-trolley-jacks/halfords-advanced-2-tonne-ratchet-axle-stands-657131.html?istCompanyId=b8708c57-7a02-4cf6-b2c0-dc36b54a327e&istFeedId=367c5610-f937-4c81-8609-f84582324cd6&istItemId=wrxqixrqt&istBid=t&_$ja=tsid:|cid:17363835999|agid:|tid:|crid:|nw:x|rnd:12545023101212641209|dvc:t|adp:|mt:|loc:1006551&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIt_7PrKSN-QIVDOztCh1v5QidEAQYBCABEgLgbPD_BwE

And of course the wheel you take off is placed under the chassis so that, if everything fails, that’s what the car drops on to.

And if you planned to do more work, good trolley jacks are very reasonable.

My apologies if you already do all this!  🙂

Hi Len

thats exactly what I mean - I wanted to paint my calipers and replace brake pads - but for a one-off job I didn't want to buy more tools.

I am on the look out for some reasonably priced jack/axle stands 

[ColinBarber]

It doesn’t matter what jack the vehicle comes with, you should never just use it to work on a vehicle where your head will end up in the wheel arch (e.g. changing pads or painting callipers) or you are underneath. jack and axle stands, or at a minimum two jacks. 

[LenT]

13 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

Hi Len

thats exactly what I mean - I wanted to paint my calipers and replace brake pads - but for a one-off job I didn't want to buy more tools.

I am on the look out for some reasonably priced jack/axle stands 

With respect Mark, these are reasonably priced …to me.  And you can pay even less.  And they are less than a set of brake pads!

But Colin has got it absolutely right.  The fact that you currently think you’ll only use them this once is really irrelevant.  It’s not what they cost you to buy, but what they could cost you if you don’t!

Also bear in mind that once you have them, it’s often the way that you’ll find future uses that you hadn’t considered.  Or that having them will make possible.

 

[cruisermark]

14 minutes ago, LenT said:

With respect Mark, these are reasonably priced …to me.  And you can pay even less.  And they are less than a set of brake pads!

But Colin has got it absolutely right.  The fact that you currently think you’ll only use them this once is really irrelevant.  It’s not what they cost you to buy, but what they could cost you if you don’t!

Also bear in mind that once you have them, it’s often the way that you’ll find future uses that you hadn’t considered.  Or that having them will make possible.

 

Hi Len

Sorry what I really meant is if I can pick up a 3 ton jack and axle stands together - reasonably priced.

The stands are very reasonable.

[Bluemarlin]

I probably need to do similar and am contemplating my options.

The problem with axle stands is that they go where the scissor jack goes, and so it would mean getting a trolley jack too. I'm not really going to be getting my head under the car, as will only be removing the wheels to get the arch liners off, clean behind them and spray some rustproofing. Neverless, I'd rather the car didn't fall off the jack and scare the **** out of me.

I had thought of getting another scissor jack and lifting front and rear together, removing both wheels, and putting the wheels under the sill. Before I do that, can anyone see any flaws in this approach that I might have overlooked?

[LenT]

3 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

The problem with axle stands is that they go where the scissor jack goes, and so it would mean getting a trolley jack too. 

I may be mistaken - and it may vary from car to car - but I suspect that axle stands can also go under the axles.  Hence the name.  😊

I’m not sure that two scissor jacks - or the pillar variety- are twice as safe as one.  I would suggest that the best combination for anything more serious than just changing a wheel, is a trolley jack used to lower the car onto axle stands.

Remembering, of course, to apply the hand brake!  In fact, I can remember when cars came equipped with a wheel chock as well

As mentioned earlier, I also put the wheels under the cills. They’ve got to go somewhere!

Best combination is a well maintained trolley jack to lower the car on to stands.  The only people who should be encouraged to go under a car simply supported by a trolley jack are those individuals after your catalytic converter.

 

[Bluemarlin]

Fair comment Len 😃

I was trying to avoid the hassle of storing a trolley jack, as I only need to lift, rather than get under the car, but may have to bite the bullet.

[Barry14UK]

Hi Bill,

What you need is a Rover 10 like this one which has built in jacks that you access  from within the car LOL.  A near neighbour  of mine when I lived in Surrey had one in his garage that hadn't seen the light of day for well  over 30 years.  It's probably still there.   I suppose the type of chassis and extra weight would rule out such a good application nowadays. https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/reviews/classic-rover-reviews-10hp

[VFR]

Never ever !!!!

Try to lift any part of a vehicle that already has a scissor jack under it as it’s odds on the moment you try that it will cause the first jack to give way. 

[Harrier Man]

18 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

I probably need to do similar and am contemplating my options.

The problem with axle stands is that they go where the scissor jack goes, and so it would mean getting a trolley jack too. I'm not really going to be getting my head under the car, as will only be removing the wheels to get the arch liners off, clean behind them and spray some rustproofing. Neverless, I'd rather the car didn't fall off the jack and scare the **** out of me.

I had thought of getting another scissor jack and lifting front and rear together, removing both wheels, and putting the wheels under the sill. Before I do that, can anyone see any flaws in this approach that I might have overlooked?

Please don't try this Bill. With respect, you don't sound too technical and the potential for things to go wrong isn't worth the risk. Even if you can minimise the time your head is under the wheel arch, other body parts will be there much longer and I'm guessing you'd like to keep them all! As VFR says, "Never ever !!!!", it really isn't worth the risk to go down this route.

[LenT]

14 hours ago, Bluemarlin said:

Fair comment Len 😃

I was trying to avoid the hassle of storing a trolley jack, as I only need to lift, rather than get under the car, but may have to bite the bullet.

I expect that by now, Bill, you may have got the impression that relying on the car’s jack is generally thought to be a bad idea! 😊

But I suspect it’s a widely held belief that what the car maker provides must be up to the job.  But they are only intended for temporary use for wheel removal under ideal conditions.  In such circumstances your hands are away from the car body and you’re only applying a horizontal, pulling force.

Once you start to work in the wheel space, then you’re exposing more of your body and applying forces in different directions that could destabilise the supporting jack.

For general information, I thought this article by, admittedly, a Company that makes stands and jacks, might be if interest.

https://www.sgs-engineering.com/help-advice/how-to-use-axle-stands/

[Bluemarlin]

Thanks all. I appreciate your comments. I would never rely on just the scissor jack. I'm reasonably technical/practical, and am aware that a trolley jack and axle stands is the best approach, but was looking to see if there was an alternative way of cleaning the arches that would eliminate the risk of the car falling on me.

To be clear, as stated in my post, I wasn't intending to rely solely on the jacks. I don't even like doing that when changing a wheel. I was also going to place two wheels under the sill once the car was raised. Which is something I'd likely do anyway, even if I was using a trolley jack and axle stands.

However, I asked you all to point out any flaws in this approach, which you've all kindly done, and so I'll heed the warnings and either buy or hire a trolley jack for the day.

 

[Malc]

On 7/22/2022 at 2:54 AM, Barry14UK said:

I am not surprised that people tend to leave it to Rescue Services to change wheel/tyre at roadside! 

and when one gets a flat tyre at the roadside it's simply sensible and prudent to have the Recovery Company change the wheel ...... might take a little while for the call-out to arrive but it will save one a bad headache if it all goes " bang "  ...  there's 2 ton of metal and leather up there being supported by a tiny metal bracket thingy 

I once tried many years ago to change my first ever Ls400 flat tyre at the roadside with the provided jack and brace and it was evident the car was shortly going to be on the move downwards if I had continued the exercise ..........  never again eh !

Malc

[Spock66]

3 minutes ago, Malc said:

I once tried many years ago to change my first ever Ls400 flat tyre at the roadside with the provided jack and brace and it was evident the car was shortly going to be on the move downwards if I had continued the exercise ..........  never again

If you do try always loosen the wheel nuts a fraction before jacking up the car, that way there is less chance of the car coming off the jack as you struggle with over tightened wheel nuts.