To hybrid or not to hybrid ... that is the question

[ScoFair]

Serious question,

I am looking at selling my stunning super low mileage Jaguar E-Pace R-Dynamic diesel due to the dreadful fuel economy. I'm lucky if i achieve 39mpg and last month i had the dreaded DPF blocked fault that maint the car went into limp mode and ended up costing me a pretty penny to sort!

I mainly do non motorway short journeys (home to work 9 miles) and the occasional motorway runs maybe once or twice a month. After the DPF blocked, the Jaguar specialist i used to clean it told me that the car really isn't best suited for our journeys and general style of driving.

Therefore i'm looking for a more suitable car and i'm really not ready to make that jump to all electric, so the next best option appears to be hybrid. After hours on the tinterweb, and the odd dealership visit i ended up in my local Lexus showroom and mainly due to economy, my focus was towards the UX250h.

Having never owned a hybrid before, i would really appreciate real and honest feedback from Lexus hybrid owners rather than the sugar-coated spiel from sales people. 

Did you guys go for hybrids for any specific reason. Was it mainly economy or to secure a smoother driving experience?

[Spock66]

4 minutes ago, ScoFair said:

Having never owned a hybrid before, i would really appreciate real and honest feedback from Lexus hybrid owners rather than the sugar-coated spiel from sales people. 

I too was sceptical and was weighing up between an RX and Jaguar F-Pace 3.0 Diesel.  My thoughts were surely you have the complexity of both an ICE and EV and all that extra weight etc. What swung my decision was the Lexus reputation for reliability, service and the Relax warranty vs the poor reputation of JLR products.

Having now owned the RX for about a year I continue to be amazed at how much improvement in fuel economy you get from the Lexus hybrid system and how smoothly it operates.  At the weekend I made a 500 mile round trip, very relaxed driving experience and averaged 40 mpg, and that's a >2 ton car with a 3.5L V6.

I do still prefer the looks of the F-Pace though compared to the RX.

[Bluemarlin]

For me it was the economy of a luxury SUV against the hassles of diesel. I also needed to change cars because of ULEZ, and so the RX was the most appropriate choice. I've had it a year and get between 30 and 40 mpg, depending on type of journey. The driving experience is very smooth and comfortable too, and the reliability reputation is backed by long warranties and extensions, which gives added peace of mind.

[Loken]

For me the decision was all about reliability.

No good having a fancy car if you are at the side of the road with the hazards on! I did consider a Land Rover Discovery Sport but the reliability is appalling.

It is also nice to be treated like royalty every time you go to the dealership- missus has a VW and they are so bad it is unbelievable. Dreadful customer service.

I have a UX250h and I average 50.2 at the moment ( 36 mile round trip commute with a 50/50 Mway/ B road split). I tend to average 68 on the way to work in eco mode and a lot less in power mode when I want to get home! Handling is surprisingly good.

Loads of safety equipment - lots of useful videos online to go through all of it.

Cosy in the back and boot space at a premium but they were not important factors for me.

Only criticism I have is over the shoulder visibility is a bit poor but other than that I adore it.

Bulletproof-highly recommend.

 

 

[KentColin]

I chose a hybrid because I wanted the economy of a diesel but with a petrol engine.  Last time I checked I am getting 53 mpg and I use ECO  mode 100%.  The reason for a Lexus is the amazing build quality and the service from the dealers 

[Brian R]

Your Jaguar dealer was entirely correct, and when I had my XE and XF I was always very aware the dpf could be problematic given the chance. The Jaguar brand was/is better than practically all the LR products, given their engines are in line rather than transverse. In practice, this means the dpf is nearer the engine and therefore can get hot enough to burn off particulate and not ingest diesel on failed regens like the LR's can and do. I also suspect you used a main dealer to resolve the dpf problem, and it does seem they know how to charge! From what I used to see on various forums dealers would often and wrongly so offload their responsibilities to fix/repair onto the customer.

I would have thought getting 39 mpg from a car that covers (in the main) such short journeys is really rather good. I will however admit, JLR products whilst beautiful to look at leave a lot to be desired in terms of reliability. Furthermore, I fear much of their troubles stem from sourcing so many parts from far  too many global manufacturers, along with what I perceived as poor quality control.

From what I can make of it, much of the Lexus parts bin is "in house"/Japanese, giving the brand far more control on quality and manifesting itself in  superior reliability. I would however look very carefully into any anticipated mpg and in particular against the typical journeys you make. Perhaps even take a demo car out on your normal journey and physically see what it can and does achieve. As they say, seeing is believing!

[H3XME]

Ask for an extended test drive, they give you a day or two. Once you make peace with the way hybrids drive, and yes it is a little different to normal ICE cars, you'll be happy. Toyota/Lexus hybrid is the only one to go to, really.. they are pioneers in this and the general reliability of these cars makes it a no brainer to get one if one likes the look of them.

[Illogan]

Having had three Mercedes (the last being an S500) I became very unhappy with the build quality. I wanted a comfortable, reliable and well-made car.

Needing a vehicle I could step down from (age comes to us all - if we're lucky) an RX450 fitted the bill just perfectly. Its reliability has been flawless, it's a pleasure to drive, and mpg isn't bad either.

As an addendum, I was lent a courtesy car for the annual service - a UX, and have to say I was impressed, both with performance and mpg, for after a good 100 miles of mixed roads, it still provided 52mpg.   

 

[ScoFair]

I really appreciate all the informative responses. It will has certainly assist in making me more confident to make the jump.

The fact that Lexus offer this 10 year warranty makes me think that they have faith in the build quality and general reliability of their product.

I will now enquire about an extended test drive, to see if i can make use of a UX250h for my normal daily routine. My wife needs some more convincing as she currently feels it could be too small for us .... even though that now the kids have flown the nest it's just me, the wife and a daft Cockapoo. I think that the fact that the UX sits quite a bit lower than the E-Pace makes her think that it's much more like a general hatchback as opposed to an SUV. We can cope with a smaller boot as for weekends away, we could invest in roof rails and a top box.

[rayaans]

The UX should be fine if there's only two of you and of course has the occasional space for more if required. 

The economy is OK but dont expect wonders at a journey of 9 miles. You may get around 40-42mpg in that sort of distance as the vehicle will be warming up for around 1-2 of those miles at least dependant on temperatures outside.

In any case you should find that the interior quality and ride is much much better than the Jag E-Pace. 

[Spock66]

57 minutes ago, ScoFair said:

I will now enquire about an extended test drive, to see if i can make use of a UX250h for my normal daily routine.

You may find the NX is a closer substitute for an e-Pace.

[ScoFair]

I did test drive both an NX and a UX but discounted the NX because of fuel economy. In the half hour test drive i got 56mpg from the UX and 41mpg from the NX. Also for our budget (£28k) they could only offer me a 17 plate NX with 37k miles. My Jag is an 18 plate with 23k miles, so felt like i would be taking a backward step in some respects

[ScoFair]

The NX did appear overpriced at £30,999

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Spock66 said:

You may find the NX is a closer substitute for an e-Pace.

1 hour ago, ScoFair said:

I did test drive both an NX and a UX but discounted the NX because of fuel economy. In the half hour test drive i got 56mpg from the UX and 41mpg from the NX. Also for our budget (£28k) they could only offer me a 17 plate NX with 37k miles. My Jag is an 18 plate with 23k miles, so felt like i would be taking a backward step in some respects

The E-Pace should really be compared to the UX with both being around 4.4m long.

The NX is closer to the F-Pace both being roughly 4.7m long 

So it makes sense that the NX would be more expensive as a used buy, more so as its quite popular in the range.

Additionally, you seem very hung up on the mpg? Even if you managed 56mpg all the time in a UX and 41mpg in an NX, it'd only save you £400 over an entire year. Dont buy a vehicle based on the mpg as its such a small difference at low miles anyway, thatd be my advice

[Duggie B]

2 hours ago, Illogan said:

As an addendum, I was lent a courtesy car for the annual service - a UX, and have to say I was impressed, both with performance and mpg,

I'll second this, I too was mightily impressed with the UX whilst I had it as a courtesy car think I would be I clined to wait though for new model year with the updated dash etc.

[ScoFair]

Well to be fair, the two main reasons to selling the Jag were down to fuel economy and the dreaded DPF.

It's also out of warranty now so makes me a touch more twitchy.

I do love the thought of purchasing an approved 3year old Lexus that would have a further 7 years of warranty

[SSUR]

UX is an outstanding small car, very smooth, economical, comfortable and well built. Armed with the excellent 10 year warranty and Lexus back there is no way you will regret it. 
 

I have a LS and CT and both are super cars. Recent terrible customer experience at Genesis has confined just how good Lexus are! I will write a separate post in that 

 

 

 

 

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, ScoFair said:

Well to be fair, the two main reasons to selling the Jag were down to fuel economy and the dreaded DPF.

It's also out of warranty now so makes me a touch more twitchy.

I do love the thought of purchasing an approved 3year old Lexus that would have a further 7 years of warranty

But why are you worried about the fuel economy? Is it a case of saving money or the planet?

If you're only doing 18 mile round trip commutes a tank of fuel would last a month anyway at 40mpg

I understand the DPF and reliability issue is making you consider changing cars but again, don't worry about the MPG as the costs will not be too different between a 40mpg and a 56mpg vehicle so don't make a decision simply based on MPG

[serbarry]

Hi Scott, the reason why I bought a hybrid car was mainly that in 2004 when the Prius V2 was released I was among a few customers in Italy to be drawn to have it for an entire week as a test drive. I literally fell in love with the Prius and generally with the Toyota HSD system. The Prius was so futuristic with the MFD and the energy screen showing the functioning of the HSD. The ride was so smooth and relaxing and the automatic transmission simply fantastic. It was the first automatic that I drove. When I returned the Prius to the dealer, my Civic coupé made me go back in the past 40 years. Unfortunately the Prius was too expensive for me as a new car, but when I moved to Ireland in 2007 and in 2010 was forced to scrap my Civic, I bought without thinking twice a 2004 Prius which was a Japanese import (MFD in Japanese so unable to understand some of the information). I have kept the Prius for nearly 12 years with absolute satisfaction. Fuel economy was outstanding with 4.4 litres/100kms. I always managed more than 1,000 kms with a full tank. In 12 years only one problem as I had to replace the power steering module, found from a scrap for 50 euros. I sold the Prius last December when I found a GS450H in the high spec that I had been looking for nearly a year. I would not have replaced the Prius if my wife had not started to push me for another car and anyway she is not happy that the GS is only 4 years newer than the Prius. I love the GS but the fuel economy is not as good as I thought it would be before buying it or maybe I am not capable of driving it properly to get the best of it. As for warranty: the Prius was only warranted 3 months from the seller (not Toyota dealer) and in 2010 Toyota did not offer the 10 years warranty. The GS next year will be out of the 15 years warranty or at least the one given to the Battery pack every year with the hybrid health check. As Rayaan told you: I would not worry much about the fuel economy and I would not base my choice on it unless you do a very high mileage every year. I sometimes miss my Prius (especially its huge boot) I hope I will see her again one day on the road.

One more thing: when my wife insisted that I had to replace the Prius, I put one only condition: the new car had to be either Toyota or Lexus hybrid, because after driving the Prius for 12 years I would not have chosen a conventional petrol car. 

[Bill Dawes]

I have been driving hybrids for over three years now, mainly in my Kia Niro which I have now exchnged for a UX.  Always been well impressed with hybrid technology, excellent fuel economy, 55-65 mpg should be attainable, sometimes more, not affected on short journeys like a conventional ICE is. I did agonise considerably over electric v hybrid but settled on hybrid in the end as it gives best of both worlds to an extents, good economy without the worry (maybe more imagined than real) of running out of juice without a charging point, or finding one and it's occupied or out of order etc.

Had my UX less than two weeks but love it. space not as good as my Kia to be honest despite being a bit bigger but for two of us it serves our purpose and love the Limo feel to it.

Bill D.

[doog442]

5 hours ago, ScoFair said:

Well to be fair, the two main reasons to selling the Jag were down to fuel economy and the dreaded DPF.

It's also out of warranty now so makes me a touch more twitchy.

I do love the thought of purchasing an approved 3year old Lexus that would have a further 7 years of warranty

Can't you get an extended warranty on the Jag ? The 39mpg you quote is pretty good in the big scheme of things and probably shouldn't be a reason to change. The 7 years of warranty is you getting your car serviced at Lexus btw .

Without doubt the Lexus will be more reliable in the long term but the cost to change at the moment will see any fuel savings wiped away in an instant.  

 

[Ed the Ted]

Scott

A little bit of my car history……….Since June 2007 every car I’ve owned has been a Lexus. The first 3 were none hybrids (IS 200, IS300 and RX300) average mpg for these cars was 20 in town and 30 on motorways. In June 2013 I bought my 1^st Hybrid a CT200h then another in July 2019 and finally a UX250h in Sept 2020. The CT’s would average 60mpg during summer, 50mpg in winter. The UX250 average mpg is 52 summer and 45 winter. I tend to run in echo mode. The only problem I ever had was with my 1^st IS (the fuse had blown in the 12v power socket) all the others were fault free. All cars were fully serviced by Lexus Stoke. 

[ALAW]

As pointed out I wouldn't worry too much about MPG. This varies between winter and summer and you can drive to be really frugal if you want. my advice would be as always its the demands and needs that suit you only you will know this. the UX is a smashing car.

[ScoFair]

I really appreciate you guys taking the time and effort. I am certainly in a better and more informed position now to proceed ..... although I got too greedy and lost out today on a White UX250h with red leather that was for sale at a Toyota dealership in Wreham. It was exactly the right colour & specification and to be fair their trade-in offer was pretty good, but tried to push for another £500 before leaving a deposit and lost out to someone that went in to look at a C-HR but immediately fell in love with the Lexus.

Back to the drawing board!

[VFR]

On 7/20/2022 at 2:38 AM, Bluemarlin said:

For me it was the economy of a luxury SUV against the hassles of diesel. I also needed to change cars because of ULEZ, and so the RX was the most appropriate choice. I've had it a year and get between 30 and 40 mpg, depending on type of journey. The driving experience is very smooth and comfortable too, and the reliability reputation is backed by long warranties and extensions, which gives added peace of mind.

The same thoughts here & once I drove one it confirmed it for me.

Hybrid over BEV ?, used to think Hybrid was a stupid idea myself and that was based on ignorance mostly but I now understand a good deal more about them and reading about the sorry state of the EV charging infrastructure (except Tesla) here in the UK I would not even consider an EV if I could not charge at home.

Even then they will so be making that as expensive as possible ?