Sports Luxury (Takumi) or FSport?

[Kozzie]

Hi All,
Looking at a new ES300H but can’t decide on the ‘Sports Luxury’ grade,  Australia ( ‘Takumi’ grade,UK) or the Fsport.

I’m late 50’s and retiring at the end of the year, have a wife and a 9 yr old. This will be car number 22 and want it to be more suited to retirement.

I understand the top grade Takumi has all the bells and whistles but I just love the look of the Fsport. 
My concerns with the Fsport   -   Adaptive Variable Suspension maintenance issues after warranty - true or false

                                                   -   Tahara seats, I read they’re soft, durable and easy to clean but prefer leather.

                                                   -   No reclining rear seats, rear centre armrest controls or side window shades.

                                                   -   is ground clearance lower on the Fsport.

                                                   -   Most importantly is ride quality. I read everything from great to disappointing.

Would love to hear from the experts who own the beautiful ES300 H and the real reason for your choice.

Thanks Paul

PS  I had a look at Lexus Uk site but it doesn’t show the Fsport grade, where the Lexus Australia site clearly does. Has it been discontinued? Interested to know if there was any difference between yours and ours.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Hello Paul, I am early 60’s and just retired, can’t comment on the F Sport but I have a Takumi and absolutely love it. It’s the same power train for both so I suppose it comes down to personal preference and price. The F Sport does have larger wheels, don’t know if that would make the ride a bit firmer.

hopefully visiting Newcastle NSW and Byron Bay next year to visit relatives 

[Slucky]

Hi Paul,

I recently got the F Sport Takumi from my previous IS F Sport.

By take on the ES:

• Tahara seats, they are soft and comfortable, much better quality than my IS
• Ground clearance seems slightly higher compared with the IS
• Ride quality on 19 inch wheels is smooth, and not jarring. You can feel the road without it being too intrusive. Tyres all on bridgestone.

 

[Kozzie]

 Good to hear Antony that you’re happy with your Takumi and thanks for your feed back.

Happy Australia holiday.

[Kozzie]

Smart looking car in white Lucky. The black wheels against the  white really sets it off. Great combination.

[Dippo]

This (Australian) website gives you the ground clearance for the various Australian models.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/lexus/es/car-dimensions/2022

[Kozzie]

 Thanks Ian. I see the site mentions - ‘The height, measured from the ground to the top of the car is 1445mm across all variants.”, so I guess the ground clearance is also the same on the Fsport as the Takumi unless I’m missing something.

160 mm seems to be fine but under 150 mm and there can be problems navigating our Australian roads and driveways.

[Dippo]

If you scroll down, it shows the ground clearance. If you then click on a different model, you can see the ground clearance by model.

[Marko89]

In terms of ride quality our F-Sport if easily the comfiest car I've ever driven. It was barely registering expansion joints over the Friarton and Tay Bridges at the weekend that previously would have sent thuds through the cabin in my old cars. 

I'm new to Lexus, but, compared to the many cars I've had that I previously thought were well dampened I'm pleasantly surprised. To be honest I've been surprised to read comments on the ride not being as good as other Lexus model, but my reference points are all either German (VAG/BMW) or Mazda and Toyota.

The change in suspension modes is nowhere near as pronounced as you'll find in other marquees either, change an Octavia VRS to its firmest setting and you'd rattle your back teeth out on our potholed roads. 

[Kozzie]

11 hours ago, Dippo said:

If you scroll down, it shows the ground clearance. If you then click on a different model, you can see the ground clearance by model.

Thanks Ian, I didn’t realise I could click each grade.  

[Kozzie]

8 hours ago, Marko89 said:

In terms of ride quality our F-Sport if easily the comfiest car I've ever driven. It was barely registering expansion joints over the Friarton and Tay Bridges at the weekend that previously would have sent thuds through the cabin in my old cars. 

I'm new to Lexus, but, compared to the many cars I've had that I previously thought were well dampened I'm pleasantly surprised. To be honest I've been surprised to read comments on the ride not being as good as other Lexus model, but my reference points are all either German (VAG/BMW) or Mazda and Toyota.

The change in suspension modes is nowhere near as pronounced as you'll find in other marquees either, change an Octavia VRS to its firmest setting and you'd rattle your back teeth out on our potholed roads. 

Thanks Mark! That’s reassuring. I have read and seen videos referring to the Fsport having some sort of low speed disconnect but very glad to hear of your real experience .Of course I’m not  familiar with the expansion joints of the bridges you mentioned but certainly know the thud they can make on our brigdes.

I have also noticed the US Fsport reviews don’t appear to have Adaptive Variable Suspension, so not a fair comparison. 

What cars have you owned that you’re comparing?

 

[Kozzie]

Can anybody give me their thoughts on the 17 speaker Mark Levinson audio compared with the standard, which I believe is a 10 speaker Pioneer?

There is one enhancement pack you can choose with the Fsport in Australia which is the 17 speaker Mark Levinson audio and heated steering wheel for AUD$3672. I will never use the heated steering wheel, never gets cold enough. Is it worth the extra coin?
 

[Marko89]

11 hours ago, Kozzie said:

Thanks Mark! That’s reassuring. I have read and seen videos referring to the Fsport having some sort of low speed disconnect but very glad to hear of your real experience .Of course I’m not  familiar with the expansion joints of the bridges you mentioned but certainly know the thud they can make on our brigdes.

I have also noticed the US Fsport reviews don’t appear to have Adaptive Variable Suspension, so not a fair comparison. 

What cars have you owned that you’re comparing?

 

I have had more cars than hot dinners due to working for a couple of manufacturers and working UK wide for construction companies over the years. Between 2015-17 I had over a dozen motors from VAG as I worked for Scania. We would swap the cars out at 7,500 miles / 3 months which ever came first. It is a manufacturer trick for feeding both new reg stats and their dealer stock with nearly new cars. 

VAG; Passat (SE Business / R Line), A3/4/6 (S-Lines where possible I specced the Sport suspension rather than S Line as it was back breaking), Octavia (VRS) / Superb (SEL/L&K).

Toyota wise during my 11 month stint with a dealer group I tended to get either Auris or Rav 4 hybrids, although I did have a diesel Auris at one point which was awful. Was very surprised to find out it was a BMW unit due to the lack of any form of torque. 

My own personal cars over the past few years have been; Mazda 3 (mk 3), Mini Clubman (Terrible ride and reliability), Astra 1.6T (running on 16" doughnuts). 

There can be a little bit of a disconnect where you feel like the seat is reacting a little different to the springs but, it tends to only be over very uneven surfaces where I've noticed it. I haven't noticed that in day to day driving. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Kozzie said:

Can anybody give me their thoughts on the 17 speaker Mark Levinson audio compared with the standard, which I believe is a 10 speaker Pioneer?

I had the standard system in my IS (dont think it was 10 speakers) and have the Mark Levinson in my ES, the difference is massive.  I had Harman Kardon in a previous BMW and the Levinson system is better in my view, I believe they are now part of same company. The Mark Levinson system does seem better the louder you have it. Well worth it in my view

[Kozzie]

10 hours ago, Marko89 said:

I have had more cars than hot dinners due to working for a couple of manufacturers and working UK wide for construction companies over the years. Between 2015-17 I had over a dozen motors from VAG as I worked for Scania. We would swap the cars out at 7,500 miles / 3 months which ever came first. It is a manufacturer trick for feeding both new reg stats and their dealer stock with nearly new cars. 

VAG; Passat (SE Business / R Line), A3/4/6 (S-Lines where possible I specced the Sport suspension rather than S Line as it was back breaking), Octavia (VRS) / Superb (SEL/L&K).

Toyota wise during my 11 month stint with a dealer group I tended to get either Auris or Rav 4 hybrids, although I did have a diesel Auris at one point which was awful. Was very surprised to find out it was a BMW unit due to the lack of any form of torque. 

My own personal cars over the past few years have been; Mazda 3 (mk 3), Mini Clubman (Terrible ride and reliability), Astra 1.6T (running on 16" doughnuts). 

There can be a little bit of a disconnect where you feel like the seat is reacting a little different to the springs but, it tends to only be over very uneven surfaces where I've noticed it. I haven't noticed that in day to day driving. 

Sounds like you’re very happy with the AVS. 

[Kozzie]

6 hours ago, Derant said:

I had the standard system in my IS (dont think it was 10 speakers) and have the Mark Levinson in my ES, the difference is massive.  I had Harman Kardon in a previous BMW and the Levinson system is better in my view, I believe they are now part of same company. The Mark Levinson system does seem better the louder you have it. Well worth it in my view

Yes, I have read the quality of the ML is exceptional but it is a lot of extra money to spend if the standard system is good. I must say I have never regretted paying extra for quality, so maybe worth it.

[LenT]

8 hours ago, Kozzie said:

Yes, I have read the quality of the ML is exceptional but it is a lot of extra money to spend if the standard system is good. I must say I have never regretted paying extra for quality, so maybe worth it.

With respect, Paul, I suggest that the choice of audio system might be more influenced by the standard of your hearing!  I’ve never thought that a car interior is the best place to listen to high fidelity reproduction anyway.

I have the ML system and I’m pretty sure it’s wasted on my hearing aids!  But you’re not yet 60 and I imagine hope to have the car for some years and this appears to be a retirement present to yourself.

It’s always easy to spend other people’s money, but I would think that if audio quality is important to you - and the additional cost less so - then enjoy the extra quality of the ML while you still can!

It’s only a small thing, but once retired you don’t want to look back on things you might have done.

[Kozzie]

36 minutes ago, LenT said:

With respect, Paul, I suggest that the choice of audio system might be more influenced by the standard of your hearing!  I’ve never thought that a car interior is the best place to listen to high fidelity reproduction anyway.

I have the ML system and I’m pretty sure it’s wasted on my hearing aids!  But you’re not yet 60 and I imagine hope to have the car for some years and this appears to be a retirement present to yourself.

It’s always easy to spend other people’s money, but I would think that if audio quality is important to you - and the additional cost less so - then enjoy the extra quality of the ML while you still can!

It’s only a small thing, but once retired you don’t want to look back on things you might have done.

 

44 minutes ago, LenT said:

With respect, Paul, I suggest that the choice of audio system might be more influenced by the standard of your hearing!  I’ve never thought that a car interior is the best place to listen to high fidelity reproduction anyway.

I have the ML system and I’m pretty sure it’s wasted on my hearing aids!  But you’re not yet 60 and I imagine hope to have the car for some years and this appears to be a retirement present to yourself.

It’s always easy to spend other people’s money, but I would think that if audio quality is important to you - and the additional cost less so - then enjoy the extra quality of the ML while you still can!

It’s only a small thing, but once retired you don’t want to look back on things you might have done.

You make a very valid point Ian. My hearing is still fine and I do enjoy listening to clear, crisp music, certainly not loud, just not sure if the standard 10 speaker stereo will satisfy.
Are you driving a Takumi?

Maybe someone who has the standard stereo can share their thoughts.

[Kozzie]

Just now, Kozzie said:

 

You make a very valid point Ian. My hearing is still fine and I do enjoy listening to clear, crisp music, certainly not loud, just not sure if the standard 10 speaker stereo will satisfy.
Are you driving a Takumi?

Maybe someone who has the standard stereo can share their thoughts.

My apologies Len. 😀 Your name is not Ian.

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Kozzie said:

 

You make a very valid point Ian. My hearing is still fine and I do enjoy listening to clear, crisp music, certainly not loud, just not sure if the standard 10 speaker stereo will satisfy.
Are you driving a Takumi?

It’s a Premier version with a 15 speaker ML system….so I’m told!

1 hour ago, Kozzie said:

My apologies Len. 😀 Your name is not Ian.

I’ve been called worse…🙁

[Tonyw]

1 hour ago, Kozzie said:

 

You make a very valid point Ian. My hearing is still fine and I do enjoy listening to clear, crisp music, certainly not loud, just not sure if the standard 10 speaker stereo will satisfy.
Are you driving a Takumi?

Maybe someone who has the standard stereo can share their thoughts.

I was worried about the speaker setup,  I had the 800W Meridian surround in my previous XF which was fantastic, far better than the BO and HK in previous Audi and Mazda.

I took a 10 spk Pioneer out for a quick drive round the corner and played some of my tunes through my phone before buying, I thought I really wanted the ML and to be honest if money was unlimited I probably would have upgraded. I was driving back from a day in the office last night, sunroof open, Queen playing at full level and I am quite happy, yes it hasn’t got the bass in my back from giant subs, or the centre speaker to lock vocals ahead of me, but from the front seats it has plenty to give, I say front seats as the pioneer setup is very front biased. 
 

my suggestion, go and give one a try with your fav tracks, you might be pleasantly surprised, it is more like a mid upgraded premium system in a peer rather than a bog standard setup like the Germans give out of the factory.

[Dippo]

33 minutes ago, LenT said:

I’ve been called worse…🙁

I think you've just been highly honoured!

[Kozzie]

52 minutes ago, Tonyw said:

I was worried about the speaker setup,  I had the 800W Meridian surround in my previous XF which was fantastic, far better than the BO and HK in previous Audi and Mazda.

I took a 10 spk Pioneer out for a quick drive round the corner and played some of my tunes through my phone before buying, I thought I really wanted the ML and to be honest if money was unlimited I probably would have upgraded. I was driving back from a day in the office last night, sunroof open, Queen playing at full level and I am quite happy, yes it hasn’t got the bass in my back from giant subs, or the centre speaker to lock vocals ahead of me, but from the front seats it has plenty to give, I say front seats as the pioneer setup is very front biased. 
 

my suggestion, go and give one a try with your fav tracks, you might be pleasantly surprised, it is more like a mid upgraded premium system in a peer rather than a bog standard setup like the Germans give out of the factory.

Great to hear Tony, sounds pretty good to me. 

Sunroof open in the UK, you’re kidding me.

[Tonyw]

35 minutes ago, Kozzie said:

Great to hear Tony, sounds pretty good to me. 

Sunroof open in the UK, you’re kidding me.

Crazy weather here, on target for our hottest day ever early next week

[Kozzie]

15 minutes ago, Tonyw said:

Crazy weather here, on target for our hottest day ever early next week

Yes, I’ve heard.