Ls400 investment potential then ??

[Malc]

     good and sensibly used Ls400s  .......  well looked after, or even not so well looked after cars ..........  thoughts anyone 

Interest rates on your savings are only just now edging up from almost a big fat zero ...... worldwide stock markets have always been a bit of a gamble methinks .... 

I suppose the cost of " holding " car stock is quite steep, car storage, physical maintenence etc .  whereas a simple push of a finger keeps your on-line " paper " investments virtually cost free .  apart from those possible and potential 'orrible " paper losses "  ....  and at the end of life, mine, yours or the paper investments, ....  zero value maybe ......... even a car thereat will have a scrap value for one's kids to inherit 

I don't know .... there's a few useful investments in " classic " cars but they are really quite unusual ........... 

An odd-ball thought process going on here BUT oh my, pushing surplus cash around has never proved more of an embarrassment right now 

AND my own Ls400 in daily use for 27 years has proven to be a sound investment for me these past 11 years of ownership for sure 

I don't know ....  any thoughts one and all ?

Malc

[Razor61]

LS400 prices have increased, that’s a fact, but so have all other used car prices.
The mk3 I bought 3 years ago with 65k on the clock was £2750 and wasn’t the cheapest at the time by any means. Same car now would be £6k I would imagine so doubled in value.
The LS400 as an investment is an interesting discussion. We all know you need to be a certain type of car enthusiast to appreciate how good the LS400 is.
Certain makes of car and models are desirable despite their inherent problems, whether it’s a BMW M car, Mercedes AMG car, Audi S/R/S car, Honda Type R etc. and is a badge thing to some extent. The BMW M cars are the best though😉
Personally, I don’t think the LS400 is an ‘investment car’ in the same way as the cars mentioned above or close to it. Some desirable cars will command a high price even though they are a bit of a wreck, not the LS400 though. A LS400 needs to be as near new as possible to command a high price.
All the above is my opinion of course and I suspect the vast majority of LS400 owners simply want to drive them and appreciate how well they drive plus how reliable they are if maintained well.

[Spock66]

I suspect certain cars will become investments as we approach the 2030 deadline for ICE sales, for those petrol heads who want the sound and feel of a large petrol engine eg Bentley Continental W12, Mustang V8, Jaguar F-Type, BMW M-Series, Mercedes AMG and Lexus LC500.

I think diesel cars will be confined to history, where they belong.

[Malc]

7 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

I think diesel cars will be confined to history,

ordinary new diesle cars perhaps BUT for traversing the Outback etc then maybe big bug-ger diesel monsters like a Toyota sumat or other will still be there 

BUT this is about old and ancient cars for potential investment ...  even a 100% paper profit over 10 years might be good on an old Ls400 .......  if storage costs etc weren't an issue ,  say from £5k to upvalue to £10k might be achieveable ?

Malc

[Razor61]

8 minutes ago, Malc said:

say from £5k to upvalue to £10k might be achieveable ?

I’d take £10k for mine right now😀

[First_Lexus]

45 minutes ago, Malc said:

ordinary new diesle cars perhaps BUT for traversing the Outback etc then maybe big bug-ger diesel monsters like a Toyota sumat or other will still be there 

BUT this is about old and ancient cars for potential investment ...  even a 100% paper profit over 10 years might be good on an old Ls400 .......  if storage costs etc weren't an issue ,  say from £5k to upvalue to £10k might be achieveable ?

Malc

Keep most cars for long enough, and in good enough condition, and I’d guess they’ll be an ‘investment’ (ignoring inflation in most cases).

I was away last night, and popped into a Waitrose store on my way home. In the car park was a beautiful 1920s/30s Austin Seven. As an aside I’d love a pre-war car, but back on topic - I wonder how that would have stacked up as an investment had the original owner kept it and passed it on? Probably worth no more than £15-20k now.

You can also never tell with cars. Modern classic dealers sell plenty of lovely stuff for relatively low prices. Fancy an XJ6 Jaguar? £15k gets you a great one. Similarly a Rover P6. But a mint early 2000s Ford RS is now selling for over £100k. Yes, you read that right!

It will be interesting to see what happens to prices post 2030 once new fossil fuelled cars aren’t available for sale new. For now @Malc I’d keep what you have and continue to enjoy it. The Lexus LS400 and things like the Honda Legend are fantastic vehicles that most people will never have the privilege to own.

I’m jealous!

[Malc]

33 minutes ago, Razor61 said:

’d take £10k for mine right now

even tho' you've invested all that    " blood toil tears and sweat "   and about £1mn so far ........  and it's sadly not a Mk3 .......... hehehehehehehe

[ambermarine]

The issue for Japanese cars making it in to the very fashionable classic car hall of fame is originality.

The Lexus LS400 was built around the format of the Mercedes S class in the guise that Mercedes took at the time .When the Ls 400 was launched it was already two years behind the times and therefore was always playing catchup.

Furthermore the Japanese effect on products was still sufferinfg from the second world war generation of veterans here and in the USA who detested any Japanese products and sales in the initial launch suffered from that.

By the time the next generation had realised that Lexus was a good and bespoke brand the classic had turned to modern and they bought it for the realistic value and cared little for its long term appreceation as againt its short term depreciation,  good for Lexus bad for classic valuation .

As former posters have said if you have one of these LS400,s whatever marque enjoy it and count any appreciation as a bonus.

[Malc]

1 minute ago, First_Lexus said:

The Lexus LS400 and things like the Honda Legend are fantastic vehicles that most people will ever have the privilege to own.

you're quite right I know  ..  and the UK     Honda Legend          is extremely rare and sadly worth almost bug-ger all £££  ...........  if i was to " invest " in modern classics then they would probably be the Ls400 .........

My 1932 Triumph Southern Cross Sports Tourer isn't worth a great deal even tho' it's believed to be one of only 8 remaining worldwide ....  it's main market outside of the UK was Australia / New Zealand       . maybe worth £ 20/30k today  .  but fragile in its use for sure and almost impossible for me to drive too ...  I'm old .........Cost me about £7,500 maybe 20 years ago ..... so in actual fact a sound investment ..  new cost was I think about £420 .....  and my car  KV2596  was the Triumph Works show car too in its day 

.......... even ( somewhere ) got a picture outside 10 Downing Street ..........  maybe they had a cat too in those days 

11 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

I was away last night, and popped into a Waitrose store on my way home.

and she often appears in the Waitrose Newmarket car park where she resides close by too ...........  must be a Waitrose thingy with old and venerable steeds 

Malc

[Razor61]

4 minutes ago, Malc said:

even tho' you've invested all that    " blood toil tears and sweat "   and about £1mn so far ........  and it's sadly not a Mk3 .......... hehehehehehehe

Absolutely I would………money talks and I would make a few quid, not a massive amount but a profit is a profit. It would have to be £10k though and not a penny less.
Question is, if I sold the car for £10k then what would I buy?
 

[Malc]

1 minute ago, Razor61 said:

if I sold the car for £10k then what would I buy?

a Mk3 to fettle and " do " maybe 

Malc

[Razor61]

Just now, Malc said:

a Mk3 to fettle and " do " maybe 

Malc

I would look for a mk3 but the reality is I probably wouldn’t find one good enough.
I’m happy with the car I have, apart from being a MK4 and not a MK3 of course. It’s all sorted now for the next 100,000 miles, logic tells you to just keep it after all the work but logic doesn’t seem to fit with owning cars🙃
 

[BigBoomer]

You might make a profit from keeping your LS in a dry-nitrogen filled bag, but as with all investments the emphasis is on "might".
Yes, if the LS becomes rare enough, and most importantly if collectors and museums actually want them, then they "might" increase in value.
If they don't, then you just spent several hundred pounds per year keeping an LS in mint condition for someone else to enjoy.

Almost all cars that people go whappy over are ones that they have special memories of, or dreamed of when they were younger.
Not many youngsters dreamt of driving an LS unless Daddy had one, and even then I'll bet they were badgering Daddy to get a Maserati Quattroporte or a Lotus Carlton/Omega.
That generation wants Escort RS Cosworths and Scoobys and Evos, hence the silly prices for those, especially the Fords.
The LS is too sensible, too understated, and until the gaping fish mouth of the recent Lexus's, had no image to speak of.

Now if you had an LFA, then it would almost certainly be appreciating in value. 

[Cotswold Pete]

I never saw the point of a car as an investment.  I recall being a passenger in an E-type on a M4 trip and the owner had bought it as a car to enjoy, rather than as an investment.  A mate of mine has just bought the MG originally owned back in 1996, which he had already restored.  Since then it has been restored twice and so the time and money in restoring must surely be greater than any investment value.

Same with a house, not an investment, its a roof over my heads, and the LS is wheels under my backside to enjoy.

[Howplum]

I wouldn't say the Ls400 was an investment per se, but my criteria is to keep expenditure within bounds so that if ever have to (reluctantly) sell it then I hope that my repair and maintenance costs will be covered. This concept gives me a self financing hobby and a happy wife - win, win!

Bar one, it's worked on the few Mercedes and BMWs that I have "fettled" since retirement 10 years ago.

 

[Spock66]

Most cars do eventually seem to rise in value eg cars that I have owned previously Vauxhall Cavalier Mk 1, VW Golf GTi Mk 2, both now worth way more than what I sold them for.

[Malc]

I s'pose I'm thinking relative potential future value of a " car holding investment " in these straightened times with inflation at maybe 10% and the return on invested cash in a bank at a negligible ......  say 0.1% thru' to the heady heights of say 1.5% .....

.............. there's an algorithm there waiting to come out BUT I can't yet put my finger on it 

Malc

[dutchie01]

10 hours ago, BigBoomer said:

You might make a profit from keeping your LS in a dry-nitrogen filled bag, but as with all investments the emphasis is on "might".
Yes, if the LS becomes rare enough, and most importantly if collectors and museums actually want them, then they "might" increase in value.
If they don't, then you just spent several hundred pounds per year keeping an LS in mint condition for someone else to enjoy.

Almost all cars that people go whappy over are ones that they have special memories of, or dreamed of when they were younger.
Not many youngsters dreamt of driving an LS unless Daddy had one, and even then I'll bet they were badgering Daddy to get a Maserati Quattroporte or a Lotus Carlton/Omega.
That generation wants Escort RS Cosworths and Scoobys and Evos, hence the silly prices for those, especially the Fords.
The LS is too sensible, too understated, and until the gaping fish mouth of the recent Lexus's, had no image to speak of.

Now if you had an LFA, then it would almost certainly be appreciating in value. 

Seems correct to me, its just the wrong type of car. Look at any 7 series, S class or A8, all fully loaded sold new to companies ( never ever to private buyers) for huge sums and after 3 years they just seem to disappear into oblivian as nobody wants them. If cars are disposable washingmachines this is the segment.

[Razor61]

20 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Seems correct to me, its just the wrong type of car. Look at any 7 series, S class or A8, all fully loaded sold new to companies ( never ever to private buyers) for huge sums and after 3 years they just seem to disappear into oblivian as nobody wants them. If cars are disposable washingmachines this is the segment.

Very true, even a Miele washing machine isn’t worth a huge amount after 20 years🤣

[Malc]

8 minutes ago, Razor61 said:

even a Miele washing machine isn’t worth a huge amount after 20 years

BUT it's still going strong and might last another 20 years too 

Malc

[steve2006]

I think access to spare parts is the fly in the ointment, over the last few years more and more parts are NLA.

Take springs for example now very hard to source OEM.

OK there are always aftermarket suppliers of various quality but would this detract from the value when a buyer discovers XYZ autospares UCAs on the car?

In the UK rust is another factor despite taking action to prevent it, rear arches spring to mind.

[Howplum]

1 hour ago, steve2006 said:

over the last few years more and more parts are NLA.

An issue that seems to affect old BMWs less than most.

[Malc]

13 hours ago, steve2006 said:

UK rust is another factor

that's possibly a reason why my 1932 Triumph is now one of only 8 remaining worldwide .....  and no-one will really want them either methinks ...  only us old diehards and well, we will eventually pass and the Ls400 will be a novelty, the one or two remaining ......... 

 .............. and my stockpile of the last 1153 cars in the UK tucked up in storage somewhere 

Malc

[plastic orange]

When I sold my Mk 4 DHP last year I struggled to get £2k for it, but then again, I stay in Scotland and that's the end of the universe for folk to travel. However, I only lost £500 in the 12 years I owned it, and the new owner was delighted, so I'm quite pleased it's gone to a good home. Looking at current ads, I'd guess I  undersold it, but that's life. I have several old cars and I really don't look upon them as investments as i'll never sell them as they'll be passed down to family members. Whether an LS 400 will achieve Ford Escort prices is debatable as I can't believe what folk are getting for what were very ordinary cars.

[Malc]

17 hours ago, plastic orange said:

Whether an LS 400 will achieve Ford Escort prices is debatable

Oxford Union Debating Society Agenda next week then .........  heahahahahhaha ............  no I jest, of course .........  I'm sure you're right ........Just a nice car to have and to use , our Ls400s ....  but with no real intrinsic value apart from 2 tonne of scrappage at some point down the line 

Malc