Paddle shifters on an eCVT

[Sybaris]

Perhaps someone could clarify this for me.

The RX450h has an eCVT and those flappy paddle shifters.  Do they actually do anything?  I have them on my 6 speed auto and they are responsive and I can shift up and down as needed.

However in a hybrid, do they actually simulate the up and down shifting close to a regular auto or is it like you click them and nothing happens?

 

Thanks

[PaulWhitt20]

They work in a similar way to the 6 speed auto flappy paddles, but are a bit of a gimmick. Sometimes useful to change down a "gear" if you are about to want quick acceleration, eg for overtaking, or to change down a gear on a steep hill to maintain engine braking. You may also use a higher "gear" if starting on snow.

More of a tick on a spec sheet than useful.

Thanks

Paul

 

[Sybaris]

So they do actually do something when you flick them.  I only tried it once on a cvt and I noticed no change.  Thats mainly what I want them for, overtaking in normal mode and the occasional burst of speed on a clear open road.

[Spock66]

23 minutes ago, Sybaris said:

Thats mainly what I want them for, overtaking in normal mode and the occasional burst of speed on a clear open road.

Or you could just use Sport / Sport+ mode for quicker throttle response, as the transmission is CVT and there are no gears to change you pretty much get immediate power when needed.

I agree engine braking on steep hills is probably the only scenario you need to force a lower gearing, although the hybrid system may well have switched off the engine so you are actually engine braking with regenerative braking.

[DBIZO]

23 minutes ago, Sybaris said:

So they do actually do something when you flick them.  I only tried it once on a cvt and I noticed no change.  Thats mainly what I want them for, overtaking in normal mode and the occasional burst of speed on a clear open road.

My primary use for them is engine breaking, either for gentle control of speed (mostly when someone pulls into my lane or I'm blocked from overtaking), or when I want to prime the computer for hard acceleration, so it doesn't take another second for it to realise we want to move apace.

Unfortunately, there is no setting that would dictate it to mimic discreet gearing, but downshifting one or two notches during deceleration or steady speeds tends to have the desired / expected effect on gearing. When you go hard on the throttle, the computer will just override pretty much any gearing input, down or up, which in most cases is optimal for torque/power delivery.

I think not having virtual discreet gearing is a major marketing miss for Lexus, because that's what people expect initially, especially from a sporty looking car. No one would actually use it 99% of the time once you realise how smooth, comfortable and efficient the eCVT is. I just hired a regular automatic car, the yanky-twitchy pull feels like a joke, but even a Merc automatic is just sloppy and slow. But we are all humans, we want to feel like we are in control, and that our machine is capable of some lofty road stuff. And 1% of time we might actually want to pull off some hairy driving. But yet again, too much common sense from the Japanese.

[NemesisUK]

If the RX is the same as my RC300h then the paddles work as one would expect so long as the transmission (not the drive mode) is in Sport mode. Then the gear changes are very realistic and very PlayStation like. Engine revs rise and fall one would expect.

In normal transmission mode they charge the degree of engine braking to the detriment of regenerative braking 

[Sybaris]

So if you use the paddle shifters down hill for engine breaking and you are in EV mode, does that energy then recharge the batteries kind of in a self perpetuating cycle

[Spock66]

22 minutes ago, Sybaris said:

So if you use the paddle shifters down hill for engine breaking and you are in EV mode, does that energy then recharge the batteries kind of in a self perpetuating cycle

Yes electrical energy is recovered from braking (regenerative braking), no need to touch the paddle shifters, another bonus is discs and pads last much longer, also much less brake dust on your wheels.

[Herbie]

30 minutes ago, Sybaris said:

So if you use the paddle shifters down hill for engine breaking and you are in EV mode, does that energy then recharge the batteries kind of in a self perpetuating cycle

When going downhill there's a chance that the traction Battery could reach maximum charge, so if this happens the hybrid system cuts off fuel supply to the engine and begins to rotate it using the motor MG1. This uses the excess electricity being generated and I seem to remember that it can also take some from the Battery as well if needed, but I may be wrong on that. This is engine braking, so no need to use the paddles at all.

The hybrid system really is engineered to perfection.

[Sybaris]

Cars have got so complicated 

[Haylands]

The other thing to remember is that the eCVT is NOT a CVT it is a series of planetary and sun gears... They should have come up with a better name so as not to confuse the issue....!!

[NemesisUK]

12 minutes ago, Haylands said:

The other thing to remember is that the eCVT is NOT a CVT it is a series of planetary and sun gears... They should have come up with a better name so as not to confuse the issue....!!

It is a constantly variable transmission, just not one using cones and belts but I take the point. The CVT of old (DAFmatic?) was hilarious to use! This eCVT is wonderfully engineered, simple (mechanically at least) and (hopefully!) very reliable with no clutches and brake bands as used in 'normal' automatic boxes.

 

 

 

[Sybaris]

Planetary and sun gears? My car is a space ship

[Herbie]

38 minutes ago, Sybaris said:

Planetary and sun gears? My car is a space ship

This video may help to get your head around the way these eCVTs work. This is about the Toyota RAV4 but our cars are the same:

 

 

[Mincey]

2 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

 The CVT of old (DAFmatic?) was hilarious to use! 

This gives me the perfect excuse to repost this wonderful footage:
 

 

[Spock66]

1 hour ago, Sybaris said:

Planetary and sun gears? My car is a space ship

No, it's missing the flux capacitor 😉

[royoftherovers]

2 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

No, it's missing the flux capacitor 😉

A Time Machine is not a Spaceship ?

[Spock66]

23 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

A Time Machine is not a Spaceship ?

Unless it's the Tardis 😉

[Sybaris]

So is this car ok at overtaking on A roads and motorways etc?  or getting gup to speed quickly on fast roads.  A lot of reviews say it doesn't have that punchy feeling when you put your foot down but not sure if that is true.

[Haylands]

3 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

It is a constantly variable transmission, just not one using cones and belts but I take the point. The CVT of old (DAFmatic?) was hilarious to use! This eCVT is wonderfully engineered, simple (mechanically at least) and (hopefully!) very reliable with no clutches and brake bands as used in 'normal' automatic boxes.

 

 

 

The eCVT does not constantly vary it's gears, it is electronically controlled to operate in various gears... There is a big difference... To cut a long story short the difference in gearing is controlled by the engine or motor generator speed...

For others information there is no reverse gear in there either, reverse is taken care of by one of the motor generators...

 

 

[Spock66]

2 hours ago, Sybaris said:

A lot of reviews say it doesn't have that punchy feeling when you put your foot down but not sure if that is true.

I would disagree, it's not a tarmac eating sports car but performance is more than adequate with plenty of power available when needed.

[Sybaris]

Cool thanks.  Thats cleared my doubts. 👍

[Herbie]

4 hours ago, Sybaris said:

Cool thanks.  Thats cleared my doubts. 👍

Just to expand on what Dan said (because you may be back on here panicking if you don't know about this), if you slam your foot to the floor, the engine will scream its head off.

This is natural and normal but some people don't like it and/or they think something's wrong. It's actually just this very clever eCVT doing its thing to keep all parameters (such as torque, power, efficiency and so on) at their best values for the given conditions.

If you don't want the engine to scream, simply press the pedal firmly down in a controlled manner and don't just stamp on it.

[NemesisUK]

Not sure if the NX has the same Sport mode for the transmission as my RC but I find this gives the best mode for "making progress". Very realistic gear changes and using the paddles gives instant PlayStation like shifts. The car will reject any shifts that over-rev or labour the engine. Great for 'downshifting' prior to an overtaking manoeuvre. With the rev counter displayed one can see the engines response to the paddles, revs rising or falling as one 'changes gear'. With the ASC enabled one hears it also, quite convincing 

Amazing technology! 

[Sybaris]

My NX has a standard 6 speed auto and is very quick and smooth and has a lot of acceleration (0-60 in 7.1 secs). I am so used to that which is why I am little hesitant when switching to an RX.  I am happy to cruise around when needed but I also like that burst of nearly instant power at times too.  I guess it does have a 3.5 v6 vs the 2.0 Turbo so its not going to be sluggish.