My Introduction and why an 'Audi Loyalist' chose Lexus

[Hillie]

Hi everyone.  

I been following this forum in stealth mode for a few weeks now and its time I introduced myself having already placed an order for a Lexus NX450H+ F-Sport, Sonic Titanium with Black interior.  The order date was 19/5/22 and I now have an ETA of 27/12/22 through Snows, Hedge End.

The order process was courteous, smooth, factual, to the point but IMO customer service was not as class leading as I would have expected or wished for from a Lexus dealership.  Other than the receipt for the deposit, getting a check copy of the actual vehicle order, and confirmation of the delivery date has involved a lot of extra effort initiated by myself and was not spontaneously provided by the dealership.

The ‘My Lexus’ website and ‘Lexus Link’ app, are not particularly helpful and other than confirmation of the order number, there is little else available or of any other value to me right now on these tools.

Why Lexus….

Currently I drive a cy2009 Audi  A4 S-Line 3.0 TDI Quattro (B8 Model) from new with 140Kmiles on the clock today  having owned three other Audi A4 saloons prior to this one.  My experience with Audi has been first rate and I cannot fault the reliability or ownership experience.  So why a change now?  I was not planning to change my car as new car lead-times were >12months, the chip shortages are still impacting vehicle delivery times, and the dealers have absolutely no incentive or desire to negotiate or offer deals. It is a sellers market.  My current vehicle is in excellent condition considering its age and mileage, still delivering a consistent 40mpg to 44mpg on a good motorway run, but the persistent rise in fuel costs and ever-increasing list of moans, groans and maintenance costs, I decided to take a more serious look at the market for a new car with better economy.  A fully refundable deposit now to secure price and delivery with a cancel later option if a better deal comes up is a low risk strategy.

My key parameters for a new car were: Cost of ownership, Reliability, Economy with some EV only capability for local jounreys and best in class safety and comfort.   I usually hang on to a vehicle for several years so longevity is also key.  All wheel drive was essential as having driven a quattro for a long time I can’t go back to front or rear wheel drive only.  I also need a vehicle that is capable of extended same day journeys due to work.

Having spent several hours playing with online configurators, visiting dealerships, reading reviews and test drives this was my take on my top list of choices and why I defected to Lexus:

Audi.

·         The Q3 looks great on the outside and while the reviews are excellent, the exterior is really nice, space is good, and the technology is top class, but the interior design IMO is not what I expected.  Too much hard plastic, and the drivers area was not inspiring.  I am sure the materials are resilient, quality and functionality is outstanding but it was not a place I wanted to be when stuck in long traffic queues or on long journeys.  Cost of owenership was much less than the NX.

·         The ‘e-tron’ Q4, is a really nice but also really expensive. I am not ready for full EV yet mostly due to range anxiety. 

·         The Q5 is very dated and I am convinced it will look even more dated next year when the new Q5 is launched.

·         The most annoying part of this experience when considering Audi was the fact the sales teams assumed that as I was a long term ‘Audi loyalist’  it was a forgone conclusion I would buy from them again.  They were also less willing to even discuss dealer incentives and sweeteners.  When they eventually do call me to check on my situation,  I will enjoy the conversation.

Jaguar, Volvo, BMW

·         Jaguar E-Pace & F-Pace.  Nowhere near the same value on specs compared to the Lexus NX.  For the E-Pace when adding options to achieve the same equipment levels, it becomes significantly more expensive. The F-Pace is huge and more expensive again but neither car matches the NX for economy and cost of ownership.  Many of the options that Lexus include as standard for all NX models are cost options for all Jaguar vehicles. 

·         Volvo XC60 and XC40 PHEV models seem expensive like for like. Space and quality was good. The economy was not as good as the Lexus on paper but close and the interior design was not to my taste.

·         BMW X3 30e x-Drive PHEV was about the same cost than the Lexus 450H+ F-Sport.  Driver and Passenger space is good but the boot space with seats up is really poor.   Also I am not convinced on the outside styling and absolutely not a fan the BMW front grill design.    

Not considered

·         Mercedes / Tesla :  (Another discussion topic)

My Conclusion : None of the PHEV alternatives considered could match the Lexus NX on specs, performance, economy, practicality or overall cost of ownership over a 5 year period given my requirements and priorities.  EV’s are hard to ignore on environmental grounds and I did look long and hard at them, but my range anxiety coupled to the complete lack of UK charge point infrastructure would prevent me from enjoying or using the full potential of the vehicle as-and-when I want to use the vehicle.   I don’t see this being fixed in the next few years.  This also includes the issue of serviceability of the public charge points that do exist today with many being constantly Out-of-Service.

The NX has one of the best interiors and over all design packages I have seen.  It draws you in and makes you smile.  There is enough technology and gadgets to keep the engineer in me fully occupied and entertained for a few years to come.  It is a cabin I can and want to spend time in.  Lexus quality and reliability was never in doubt.  EV only range looks great and can handle all my local journeys. Overall combined fuel economy on paper and from reading the various threads here about actual real world range experiences helped me with my choice.   

Thank you all

[Malc]

Paul, welcome to the Club

just wondering if you had heard of the Nio and the different style of EV charging that's entailed .......  and the likelihood of that methodolgy being the near-time preferred and probable type maybe emerging sometime soon 

Malc

[Ken R]

Great choice. The NX450h+ is an amazing car. Today I did a 51 mile round trip involving city streets and motorways utilising electric power only.

[Hillie]

6 minutes ago, Malc said:

Paul, welcome to the Club

just wondering if you had heard of the Nio and the different style of EV charging that's entailed .......  and the likelihood of that methodolgy being the near-time preferred and probable type maybe emerging sometime soon 

Malc

Malc,  

I think the Battery Swap Technology concept is good but the infrastructure worldwide will take time to come on line. Against is the fact it is limited to ONLY Nio vehicles which seriously limits user choice today.

https://electrek.co/2021/07/09/nio-plan-open-battery-swap-stations-to-other-electric-automakers/

I think it will be hard for Nio to push a fundamental change across the industry but if they get some adoption from the likes of Toyota,  VAG, Ford or GM (non Chinese manufacturers) it will gain traction more quickly.   

I can see the issue of vehicle warranties and above all Battery safety and vehicle warranty being the biggest hurdles to overcome.  I also believe that incremental steps in energy storage technology (energy density),  charging technology (charging speed), Battery Life (charge cycles) or other generation technology (fuel cell) will counter or reduce the value of this concept. 

Nio has a tough challenge ahead of it.

Hillie

 

 

[Malc]

Only reason I mention Nio was reading that Norway as a Nation has seemingly fully adopted the Nio as the EV of choice effectively AND that comes from the Nio preponderance now in China 

I have no other knowledge .  other than their system seems so much more sensible with the majority of car owners, at least in the UK, like me, having zero ability to simply recharge with a lead ........ no where for it to link up to my cars parked up the street ......  along with my various neighbours Bentleys etc 

Malc

[Las Palmas]

Welcome to the forum.

German cars had a reputation and I also used to like the reliability of MB and VW (incl. Audi). You have been more lucky with Audi than I was with MB.

Your meaning about EV is same as mine. Only good for people not interested in long range and really only good for people having solar cells on top of their house so they have power reasonably cheap and easy.

Lexus make great hardware and stupidly poor software; only know about the one we have and maybe they have improved since 2017 model, but I doubt it. About the economy driving cars all factories paint far too beautiful pictures. Never had a car that did as well as promised with regard to fuel economy. The little Lexus CT we have is just the same. Best and closest fuel economy to what was promised from factory we have had were from a Smart Roadster Coupé and a VW Golf 2.0tdi DSG.

I am sure you will be happy with the Lexus and wish you all the best. You will probably not need advice with regard to repair your car the next very many years, but should it happen there will be knowledgeable people here ready to help.

[Hillie]

4 hours ago, Malc said:

Only reason I mention Nio was reading that Norway as a Nation has seemingly fully adopted the Nio as the EV of choice effectively AND that comes from the Nio preponderance now in China 

I have no other knowledge .  other than their system seems so much more sensible with the majority of car owners, at least in the UK, like me, having zero ability to simply recharge with a lead ........ no where for it to link up to my cars parked up the street ......  along with my various neighbours Bentleys etc 

Malc

Norway has the highest level adoption rate for EVs per capita of any country. at 60%+     Tesla takes the pole position then VW ID.3  in 3rd split by the RAV4.  The Norway Government has actively drives EV adoption and infrastructure and punishes non-EV very agressively.  Having travelled in Norway a lot, the impressive aspect is the charging infrastructure which is far superior to any other country I have been.  Chargers are everywhere.  IMO when we see this in the UK then we will see the adoption rate for EV massively increase. 

I can see why Nio launches in Norway first as they are the premier EV country in Europe by a very big margin.  Tesla did exactly the same a number of years ago and before any other country outside of the USA.  It is mentioned in the following article.  This approach will allow Nio to test the concept in a EV friendly country so bit it initially around Olso only.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/electric-cars-take-two-thirds-norway-car-market-led-by-tesla-2022-01-03/

On your second item,  you make a very good point about the value of the Nio Battery swap solution for consumers like your self that do not have access to, or ability to install off street wall boxes and chargers,  or even utilise UK 13 amp plug adapters safely or practically.  I do sympathise with you on this point. 

The question that I need to look up now is if the Nio solution can also be charged by conventional plug in methods  7Kw, 22Kw or higher.  I dont see why not but have not checked this out yet. 🤔

Hillie

 

 

[Malc]

last night on our Town Quay where we have electric points for boats to plug into ( and pay for the electric ) a sole EV car was being charged-up by a long lead with some sort of adaptor while he was overnight on our " scrubbing berth " sleeping on his boat prior to working on his hull at the coming low tide and access for cleaning etc

My backyard effectively 

I would go for the simplicity of the Nio straight EV charged Battery swap when and if I ever move onto the EV concept  ............... until then it's the simplicity of a petrol pump with E5 for my V8 4 ltr limo Ls400 and  .......... E10 for the Honda Legend  3.5 ltr V6 limo ...... both with a 400 -  500 mile range thankfully 

Malc