Why are folk selling their is250's

[toffee_pie]

On 9/23/2022 at 7:34 PM, MattDH said:

No it doesn't have ML, thats about the only. After some research before buying it I've found two things that are rare on JDM 2nd gen IS... Mark Levinson and Sunroof. 

My IS250 SE has ML and comparing it to my IS350 it's not that great of a difference in my opinion.

 

Thinking about it that's a good idea, I'll start a new thread about the IS350

 

[toffee_pie]

On 9/23/2022 at 7:34 PM, MattDH said:

No it doesn't have ML, thats about the only. After some research before buying it I've found two things that are rare on JDM 2nd gen IS... Mark Levinson and Sunroof. 

My IS250 SE has ML and comparing it to my IS350 it's not that great of a difference in my opinion.

 

Thinking about it that's a good idea, I'll start a new thread about the IS350

I think you can forsake a ML and sunroof for that engine...

[MattDH]

Got a video of my exhaust, waiting to add a 1792 resonator and then I'll be happy with the setup on that section 

[Mr Vlad]

Ooooh that sounds niiiiiiiiiice 👍

[MattDH]

Just realised I posted that on the wrong topic

[Lex_utor]

On 9/12/2022 at 9:38 AM, H3XME said:

There are G37s saloons. To be honest, they are quick with ~300hp and manual, but quite ugly in my opinion. I'd rather just have an IS350 and live with an automatic. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175352124203

Indeed. But only the coupe comes close to the IS250 in beauty. 🙂 

Plus, I haven't looked but the G37 saloons look so heavy just standing there. I doubt they handle as good as the IS250, do they?

Driving on the Autobahn a coupe of weeks ago, I was impressed with the car. Fast! Before you know it you're flying. So smooth and confortable. It's not that it is super fast. It's fast enough. It's that you don't really notice how fast you're going or how quick it gets up to speed. Might not make sense. But feels way quicker than my RX8 ever did.

A coupe of BMWs and Mercedes came out to play when I was on the autobahn. Even newer ones. No problem for the IS. This guy in a newish Volvo saloon. You know these people that are driving slow but when you start to overtake they speed up? Yeah, when the curve came he had to step on the brakes and dropped behind. The IS had no problem. I felt totaly secure to take the hot curve. Totally understand why the IS250 beat the BMW 3-series on the slaslom. 

It will really be a sad and difficult choice when I have to replace it. I don't want a BMW. But I'm not seeing much choice beyond that. But I will surely keep the Lexus for a couple of years at least. 🙂 

[Lex_utor]

On 9/12/2022 at 11:56 PM, H3XME said:

Yeah manuals but not all I don't think.

How does one find out if a manual has a LSD? VIN number?

[Lex_utor]

On 9/12/2022 at 9:24 PM, toffee_pie said:

I had a manual IS250, I was in denial at the time I think as to how bad it was because any owner of a car is proud of what they own, but after getting the six speed Subaru it’s just night and day and unless you drive a 6 speed Subaru, or indeed a Honda or other car with a razor-sharp close ratio gear box you won’t understand – these keep the engine running to its peak in terms of changes between gears, maximising available torque –– the Subaru transmission can handle masses of torque so if you bodge a gear change are you will probably destroy the engine before the gearbox itself, its why you see them used in Subaru’s with 800bhp+ on drag strips

No denial here. I know exactly what I have in my manual IS250. 😉 

Before it I had a RX8. And other cars I have had are RX7, 944 Turbo, MR2 etc to mention a few of the performance cars or sports cars I owned. 

The IS250 is my family car and daily driver. I'm not under the illusion it's a sports car. But I still get to have fun on the commute home from work or after dropping the kids at school.   Sure if you want an all out sports car there are loads better. But this is not what the IS250 is. It's a good all around package and covers many bases well. Not many out there that do that. I would have to compromise on the looks, or class, or comfort, or built quality, or engine, or not have a manual, or not have RWD, or not have four doors.

The Subaru might be a better shifter. But I doubt it is as confortable as the IS. I know it's not even close in the looks side. I find all Subarus very ugly. The IS is beautiful IMO, and classy, comfortable, plenty of poke and fun to drive. And as I found out, no problem keeping up with the Germans in speed and handling. I'm fine with that. 🙂 

Eventually I know I will get another companion for my IS. I see a 2 seater in my near future too. 

[toffee_pie]

52 minutes ago, Lex_utor said:

No denial here. I know exactly what I have in my manual IS250. 😉 

Before it I had a RX8. And other cars I have had are RX7, 944 Turbo, MR2 etc to mention a few of the performance cars or sports cars I owned. 

The IS250 is my family car and daily driver. I'm not under the illusion it's a sports car. But I still get to have fun on the commute home from work or after dropping the kids at school.   Sure if you want an all out sports car there are loads better. But this is not what the IS250 is. It's a good all around package and covers many bases well. Not many out there that do that. I would have to compromise on the looks, or class, or comfort, or built quality, or engine, or not have a manual, or not have RWD, or not have four doors.

The Subaru might be a better shifter. But I doubt it is as confortable as the IS. I know it's not even close in the looks side. I find all Subarus very ugly. The IS is beautiful IMO, and classy, comfortable, plenty of poke and fun to drive. And as I found out, no problem keeping up with the Germans in speed and handling. I'm fine with that. 🙂 

Eventually I know I will get another companion for my IS. I see a 2 seater in my near future too. 

I had a manual I250 and trust me, the 6 Speed Subaru is a different beast entirely – there is no comparison with a Lexus manual, I won’t go back to a manual IS250 again, or an auto - I would get a ISF or a LS460 or something with a V8 however but in terms of the 6 pots I found the manual on the IS250 sluggish and pretty terrible, the car itself is fine and the level of comfort is a different league to the Subaru but it’s the latter which is a better drivers car and that is what wins it for me.

To give you an example of how quick the Subaru is you just need to be either behind some slow vehicles in 3rd gear doing 30mph or so - or exiting a junction on a Motorway at the same speed and red line it and shift up to 4th gear - before you know it you are doing the most of 100mph and the sound is there to be heard in all its glory – I was back in Ireland recently and a few people were asking me about my car with its UK reg – my friend said I could hear that in the village and I was only reversing it, I was there at the same time as him and the village is small he was about 200 feet away or something  – its just got a SS cat back exhaust, I had a K&N intake on the Lexus but the Subaru sounds far better and it’s pretty quick and that is not counting the AWD ability on B roads and in the wet and snow, the 50:50 bias is key here and only the manual cars have that – unless you have a STi with a DCCD and can control the bias but for the manual SpecB its 50/50 stock and they have a torsen LSD at the rear as stock also of course which is another big positive - regarding handling

The downside is that is a pain in the proverbial to be driving in cities, If I was living in an urban environment a car like this would only be a weekend toy – economy in such a situation would make gown men weep also, you are talking <20mpg – the close ratio gear boxes have a knock-on effect to economy and also the emissions but for mixed driving as I do now or long run its fine, with 17 Saloon cars sold in the UK from 06-08 I doubt you will be seeing many on the road.

For 14+ years old they look pretty good but I agree the IS250 is still looking sharp also, I like the F-Sport bodykit 

[Mr Vlad]

At the end of the day Eric its personal choice and impression. Your Subaru is undoubtedly a ruddy good car and yes you Can make Direct comparisons with the manual gearbox is250. 

What I can say about comparing the Same car is that the same model/spec car can be like chalk and cheese. My personal experience is with a top spec is300h. I had 2 identical spec cars and the only difference was the registration number. However the two cars were oh so different. I've posted this on here too many times. 

What I'm saying is the possibility of Your is250 is that it wasn't as good as what a manual gearbox is250 should be.

Lexus make superb cars But unfortunately within the same model there are too many differences. One car will be great yet the next won't. 

What Lex experienced in his car was fantastic and although comparisons with other cars wasn't the best way to go without it being from direct experience Don't put him down because of it.

You love your subaru he loves his Lexus. 

Actually I'd love to race you on a road like the Snake Pass or over the Woodhead Pass. I'd surprise you. Yes your car has more power and 4 wheel drive. I care not. I've lots more driving experience than you and many many more miles than you. 

Ok back to not being silly. What I'm saying is Don't 'slag' off saying your subaru is better than the is250. I say it Isn't. You say it Is. No I've not driven a subaru nor do I want to. There's nothing about them that interest me. As for rallying there's only one car for me and I had one for over 7 years. 

Here endeth my sermon 👍

 

[toffee_pie]

13 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

At the end of the day Eric its personal choice and impression. Your Subaru is undoubtedly a ruddy good car and yes you Can make Direct comparisons with the manual gearbox is250. 

What I can say about comparing the Same car is that the same model/spec car can be like chalk and cheese. My personal experience is with a top spec is300h. I had 2 identical spec cars and the only difference was the registration number. However the two cars were oh so different. I've posted this on here too many times. 

What I'm saying is the possibility of Your is250 is that it wasn't as good as what a manual gearbox is250 should be.

Lexus make superb cars But unfortunately within the same model there are too many differences. One car will be great yet the next won't. 

What Lex experienced in his car was fantastic and although comparisons with other cars wasn't the best way to go without it being from direct experience Don't put him down because of it.

You love your subaru he loves his Lexus. 

Actually I'd love to race you on a road like the Snake Pass or over the Woodhead Pass. I'd surprise you. Yes your car has more power and 4 wheel drive. I care not. I've lots more driving experience than you and many many more miles than you. 

Ok back to not being silly. What I'm saying is Don't 'slag' off saying your subaru is better than the is250. I say it Isn't. You say it Is. No I've not driven a subaru nor do I want to. There's nothing about them that interest me. As for rallying there's only one car for me and I had one for over 7 years. 

Here endeth my sermon 👍

 

The gearbox in the IS250 is not close ratio, its nothing like the Subaru type and there was nothing really wrong with it in the first place, it was a heck of a lot better than the car I replaced it with - the CL55 AMG

My old Lexus sailed through MOTs during my ownership but I found it lacklustre for want of a better word - Its not really about my current car being a Subaru Legacy, its the gearbox - that is what makes it, check how much used Subaru's cost in Japan with a 6 speed gearbox then compare to a used IS250 or even IS350. - check youtube for Subaru Imprezas on 1/4 mile runs, 6 speed gearbox, I know its 6 speed because if you put 1000bhp through the drivetrain of the 5 speed it would not cope and like I said previously try put that power through your IS250 and it would split into thousands of pieces.

You still probably wont believe me but thats fine but unless you drive cars like that you wont ever know what makes them different from your manual IS250, there are cars far greater than my Subaru as there are ones to a IS250 - you need to appreciate them all

 

 

[Lex_utor]

11 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

I had a manual I250 and trust me, the 6 Speed Subaru is a different beast entirely – there is no comparison with a Lexus manual, I won’t go back to a manual IS250 again, or an auto - I would get a ISF or a LS460 or something with a V8 however but in terms of the 6 pots I found the manual on the IS250 sluggish and pretty terrible, the car itself is fine and the level of comfort is a different league to the Subaru but it’s the latter which is a better drivers car and that is what wins it for me.

To give you an example of how quick the Subaru is you just need to be either behind some slow vehicles in 3rd gear doing 30mph or so - or exiting a junction on a Motorway at the same speed and red line it and shift up to 4th gear - before you know it you are doing the most of 100mph and the sound is there to be heard in all its glory – I was back in Ireland recently and a few people were asking me about my car with its UK reg – my friend said I could hear that in the village and I was only reversing it, I was there at the same time as him and the village is small he was about 200 feet away or something  – its just got a SS cat back exhaust, I had a K&N intake on the Lexus but the Subaru sounds far better and it’s pretty quick and that is not counting the AWD ability on B roads and in the wet and snow, the 50:50 bias is key here and only the manual cars have that – unless you have a STi with a DCCD and can control the bias but for the manual SpecB its 50/50 stock and they have a torsen LSD at the rear as stock also of course which is another big positive - regarding handling

The downside is that is a pain in the proverbial to be driving in cities, If I was living in an urban environment a car like this would only be a weekend toy – economy in such a situation would make gown men weep also, you are talking <20mpg – the close ratio gear boxes have a knock-on effect to economy and also the emissions but for mixed driving as I do now or long run its fine, with 17 Saloon cars sold in the UK from 06-08 I doubt you will be seeing many on the road.

For 14+ years old they look pretty good but I agree the IS250 is still looking sharp also, I like the F-Sport bodykit 

I'm sorry. But reading your post, it looks like you didn't get my point at all!

It matters not that the Subaru might shift better or be faster. I don't care. I just would never have one. Period!

It just not my type of car and it doesn't check enough of my boxes. It could check the shifting box and that's it. Speed was never a box I needed checked. This is my daily driver and I'm not delussional. I didn't expect a sport car. I mean, it's a saloon.

I knew exactly what I was looking for when I bought the IS250 and speed was a nice to have. Being an well rounded package was the important thing.  If what I wanted was something that was very fast and shifted awesomely, and this was the priority, there are about a billion other options. Better than the Subaru too in my book. The Subaru would still be at the bottom of my list. But this was never my priority. An well rounded package was my priority.

So the Subaru would check ONE box. But it would still leave comfort, class, looks, RWD etc unchecked. So it matters not how good it shifts. It's not a car for me. I never saw anything special on the Suburus. They were always either a bit boy racer or a bit of a lackluster attempt at a luxury saloon. If they are that at all. But if I had to buy a Subura, because somebody put a gun to my head, it could only be a Legacy. An Impreza is just not at all whatsoever a car I would have. 

  If I want a sports car, I buy a sports car. 😉 I would not go for a saloon posing as a sports car. And this is what Im going to do next. Buy me a real sports car for the weekend. 🙂 

The Lexus is a classy, luxury saloon with a bit of fun sparked on top. This is exactly what I want. My sport car will be an all out hardcore lightweight driving machine. I like using the right tool for the right job. 😉 

As for the ISF, if it was a manaul, it could well be a very good replacement for my IS when the time comes. Yes, it would still be as old. But at least the V8 novelty could strecth it for a few more years.  The one thing I don't like with the ISF is the looks. I think it doesn't look as classy and I also don't like the huge overhangs. I'm not sure if the front overhang was made longer to accomdate the V8. Even though as far as I know the chassis is the same. But maybe the bigger and longer bumper was needed because the cooling bits had to be pushed forward. But from the side, the ISF looks off balance IMO. The wheels look pushed it. IMO the best looking IS250 are the 2011 and newer cars. Secially in Fsport trim. They also have the shortest front overhand, which makes it look modern and better balanced. But if it was possible to manual swap an ISF and then take a 2011 Fsport bumer and make it wider to fit and put it on the ISF, it would be the perfect daily driver. Even tough I complain about the consuption of my IS250 for daly use. At least it would be a V8! 😁

Back to your Subaru, I understand you might be enamorated with your car. But this is a Lexus board and I think no ammount of writing and refute preaching for the Subaru will convince people here. Or they would already be on the Subaru forums. 😉 I know I'm done with the Subaru talk. Not for me, even if it drove as good as a Ferrari FF, which is about one car which could convice me to let go of a manual. Yes, it drives very good and yes I have driven it. I like it more than some of the mid engine Ferraris I have driven and this is saying a lot. They have real useful backseats too, which is important to me. I have kids. But being the clutch-shift knob addict I am, I'm sure even then I would miss rolling my own gears.

Keep one thing in mind when trying to understand how I feel about the IS250. I didn't buy it because I couldn't afford a newer or more expensive car.  I bought it because I wanted a RWD manual saloon and didn't want a BMW. I wanted a good looking, luxury, classy, well built, four doors, V6/V8 RWD manual car and didn't want a BMW. Even if you think a BMW would check all the above boxes. 

With that, I close the page on this. Enjoy your car! I know I'm enjoying mine. 🙂 

[Lex_utor]

10 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

What Lex experienced in his car was fantastic and although comparisons with other cars wasn't the best way to go without it being from direct experience Don't put him down because of it.

You love your subaru he loves his Lexus. 

 

The thing is I have not really properly driven any other IS250 to tell. I drove a couple of IS220 when I was looking for my car. Then I went around the block in an automatic IS250. But around the block is not enough to tell dynamics. Since I knew fully well I wanted a manual, I didn't make much of it.

But my car has surprised me a lot. Because I had always heard the second gen IS was boring to drive and not as nice as the first gen to drive. And that the manual IS250 sucked. So when I test drove my car, I was positively surprised. And now, owning it, even more surprised. Not at all what many people say.

My wife had a MX5 for years before we had kids and I drove that all the time. I also owned a RX8, which is basically a long wheelbase NC MX5. Even coming from that, I don't find the IS250 a bad drive. Of course, I know how to adjust my expectations to the fact this is a luxury saloon and not a sports car. It's like when I take cars to the track. Nobody will drive a MR2 and a Camaro on the track the same way. Doesn't mean one is worse than the other. They are different types of cars and your bring to the track the car which will give you the experience you are looking for. It's on one self, right? If you complain the Camaro doesn't handle like a MR2 on track, well, you should have brought a MR2 then. I enjoyed both cars on the same tracks, for different reasons. But I knew what to expect. 

Having said that, my car is not exactly stock. But I don't think it's even modified enough to even call it mildly modified. So I'm not sure the modifications are playing any major role here in making the IS250 not as boring as some say, specially BMW people. But like I said, I never properly driven another to compare. But all I have is suspension braces front and rear, 19" wheels, sports exhaust and the full Fsport intake.  The last two making the car sound totally different than stock. At higher RPM it sounds just sooo good. Which accounts for my silly expensive petrol bills 🙂  Al modifications were already there when I bought it. Sometimes, when I drop a gear, or step on it, I wonder if it has had a remap or something. Because it doesn't feel that letargic at all as some say. But then again I don't think remaps do much for NA engines. The Fsport intake and exhaust are supposed to give a few extra horses. But I would think it's neglegible. 

But I'm happy with my IS250. And I'm not in denial. I would have sold it already after over a year of ownership if I didn't like it. I have done that before. Bought a car and sold it after 3 months because it wasn't what I thought it was. 

So I don't know what it is. If my car is just modified enough, or if my experience with cars leads me to adjust my expectations enough when I'm in different types of car. But coming from a RX8 and having owned sports cars and driven even more of them from others, and having been on tracks with cars, I just am not disappointed with my IS250:

[Lex_utor]

P.S. I just re-read my last post and realized it might come across a bit differently than I intended. I'm not saying I'm The Stig. 😂

I'm sure people like H3XME have way more track experience than I do. I just have been to the track with my cars and driven friends cars on tracks too.

But I'm actually not the hands on type of petrolhead. I'm not the type who enjoys or even can work on his own cars. Basic stuff, sure. But I can't take an engine apart and put it back together etc. I'm not mechanically inclined. Not that type of petrolhead. On that side even basic things will evade me at times. I remember Jeremy Clarkson admiting to the same thing and I was like, "hey, I'm not the only one.  So if Clarkson is like this too, it means you can know about cars and enjoy them without also being a mechanic or handyman or a tech wizard." 🙂 

[H3XME]

13 hours ago, Lex_utor said:

How does one find out if a manual has a LSD? VIN number?

The only way you want to find out. Do a burnout. 
 

 

12 hours ago, dking22 said:

Non of them have LSD. 08 model had this option but only for AT and I never seen that anyone had ordered it back then.

What they have (all) is semi-slip diff that locks up slightly on low gear only to help at start off or slippery surface.

You do realise that the Torsen that’s in those cars is an LSD right? Torque sensitive limited slip differential. Depending on how much torque you send to the wheels, that how much lock you get. My ‘08 manual had a factory lsd. My mates 09 facelift automatic has one too. How do I know? Do a burnout. One wheel peel = open diff. Two wheel peel = lsd.

[Lex_utor]

8 minutes ago, H3XME said:

The only way you want to find out. Do a burnout. 

Is there a cheaper way, or a way which doesn't bother the police? 🙂 

The housing is the very same? Or if I look under I can tell? The VIN says nothing?

[H3XME]

29 minutes ago, Lex_utor said:

Is there a cheaper way, or a way which doesn't bother the police? 🙂 

The housing is the very same? Or if I look under I can tell? The VIN says nothing?

Do it on the grass. Quick 5-10s spin. 
yes everything’s the same, you can put a BRZ/GT86 Diff with no modifications. 
I don’t know about the VIN suggesting anything, sorry

[Lex_utor]

1 minute ago, H3XME said:

Do it on the grass. Quick 5-10s spin. 
yes everything’s the same, you can put a BRZ/GT86 Diff with no modifications. 
I don’t know about the VIN suggesting anything, sorry

I see. I can't think of any grass I could freely damage to test this. But maybe on thw wet at least then. 🙂 

Interesting that this wouldn't be listed somehwhere for a given car. Almost like they were trying to hide it.  Should be a feature they should shout from the mountains. 😄

[H3XME]

1 hour ago, Lex_utor said:

I see. I can't think of any grass I could freely damage to test this. But maybe on thw wet at least then. 🙂 

Interesting that this wouldn't be listed somehwhere for a given car. Almost like they were trying to hide it.  Should be a feature they should shout from the mountains. 😄

Perhaps It’s not an important feature to the buyers. BMW for example dont offer lsd unless you go for the M cars. 

[H3XME]

19 minutes ago, dking22 said:If you had it then what was the planned benefit to swap it for GT86 diff that is exactly the SAME Torsen LSD diff?

Probably just standard F20SX / FD20A Semi-Limited Slip diff.

The difference is that GT86 has a 4.1 final drive. Better acceleration but higher revs at same speeds = lower top speed. 

[toffee_pie]

4 hours ago, Lex_utor said:

I see. I can't think of any grass I could freely damage to test this. But maybe on thw wet at least then. 🙂 

Interesting that this wouldn't be listed somehwhere for a given car. Almost like they were trying to hide it.  Should be a feature they should shout from the mountains. 😄

A car with a real LSD will spin wheel in the opposite direction when lifted off the ground - with no rolling resistance, so a easy check is jack up both rear wheels and spin one and check which direction the other moves

As for the IS250 Vs Subaru - they are entirely different cars as the end of the day and not at all like each other, the Lexus is more comfortable but the Subaru has sharper handling, is quicker and sounds better – having had the Lexus for 2 ish years and the Subaru for moving to 7 years that is my opinion. The SpecB was designed for performance, which is why its had the LSD, 6 speed gearbox, Bilstein Dampers, momo steering wheel and so on - the Lexus was more a Luxury mid-range sedan. 

They are both Japanese so they are all reliable, a IS250 wont be a step up for me when it comes to replace my Subaru, I need a V8. 

[Steven9233]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:12 AM, Steven9233 said:

I was in motor trade for 12 years some time back , I knew before most that German cars especially Audi and merc are utter trash when it comes to reliability and “German engineering “ marketing tripe , the big stuff old E class etc were great but everything else is garbage , Honda / Toyota (Lexus ) are far far superior in engineering terms , but lack the so called image that people with no knowledge lust over . They have got progressively worse I’d rather drive a Honda jazz than a Audi A4 TDI or a merc C class , I simply couldn’t afford the catastrophic failure they all seem to get .  My old accord coupe was in family 22 years ( dads before mine ) ) ) never , not once had a fault or let us down , no one on this planet could say the same for a german car guaranteed Honda - Lexus - Toyota - happy life . Simple’s . 

To add to my post FYI , my son who is 21 is doing very well for himself and purchased a 2016 Mercedes C class couple in august last year , crazy car for a 21 year old and as a dad I wasn’t impressed ! Rather he saved up and buggered off to his own place 😅 

just look at this !  In the last 5 months with only 36k on clock he has had the following failures mostly and luckily fixed under Mercedes used car warranty as he bought from Southampton Mercedes’ main dealer 

electronic steering sensor failed - steering wheel vibrating when turning 

Air bag sensor failed earring lights up 

water pump- leaking coolant half the engine apart to replace lost car for 3 days 

engine light - loss of power on motorway fault traced to some engine control cam shaft sensor 

hand brake cable snapped !!! Yes it actually snapped they keep them on the shelf as it turns out as such a common problem .

knocking noise from front - he had to pay this one (wear and tear item ) both bottom ball joints although only done 2600 miles since purchase - I’m currently involved trying to get his costs back from the stealership 

this my friends is the difference between Japan and Germany !  This is a low mileage mint full merc history car and it is absolute mass produced junk !!  A Ford Focus would be far more durable , we counted up the cost had he of needed to pay all this from his own pocket looking at £3000 ish water pump alone was a 7 hour job .

NEVER allow your self to be fooled by the German lie !!  My 2012 is250 is as tight as a drum although 4 years older it is in a different galaxy in quality terms than his overrated s”” box . Obviously I don’t word it this way to my nipper he loves it and each to own he would much prefer the Lexus but being a v6 his insurance cost would buy a small country . But seriously if you needed an example of how the 3 pointed star or the Audi vus sprung technik or whatever the slogan is , then this is it .  I’ll walk to work before I ever spend my hard earnt money on the German lie . Im a Honda fan although I admit the range is now small and boring , but when you buy a Lexus a Honda a Toyota , you are buying a quality product , made by a workforce that value their jobs and reputation with quality and durability at the forefront of everything they do , yes they are machines and machines fail , the difference IMO is the Germans don’t give a s””” and it’s almost as if they are being built to fail .

Rant over -  god bless Toyota / Lexus / Honda 

[H3XME]

8 minutes ago, Steven9233 said:

To add to my post FYI , my son who is 21 is doing very well for himself and purchased a 2016 Mercedes C class couple in august last year , crazy car for a 21 year old and as a dad I wasn’t impressed ! Rather he saved up and buggered off to his own place 😅 

just look at this !  In the last 5 months with only 36k on clock he has had the following failures mostly and luckily fixed under Mercedes used car warranty as he bought from Southampton 

electronic steering sensor failed - steering wheel vibrating when turning 

lair bag sensor failed earring lights up 

water pump- leaking coolant half the engine apart to replace lost car for 3 days 

engine light - loss of power on motorway fault traced to some engine control cam shaft sensor 

hand brake cable snapped !!! Yes it actually snapped they keep them on the shelf as it turns out as such a common problem .

knocking noise from front - he had to pay this one (wear and tear item ) both bottom ball joints although only done 2600 miles since purchase - I’m currently involved trying to get his costs back from the stealership 

this my friends is the difference between Japan and Germany !  This is a low mileage mint full merc history car and it is absolute mass produced junk !!  A Ford Focus would be far more durable , we counted up the cost had he of needed to pay all this from his own pocket looking at £3000 ish water pump alone was a 7 hour job .

NEVER allow your self to be fooled by the German lie !!  My 2012 is250 is as tight as a drum although 4 years older it is in a different galaxy in quality terms than his overrated s”” box . Obviously I don’t word it this way to my nipper he loves it and each to own he would much prefer the Lexus but being a v6 his insurance cost would buy a small country . But seriously if you needed an example of how the 3 pointed star or the Audi vus sprung technik or whatever the slogan is , then this is it .  I’ll walk to work before I ever spend my hard earnt money on the German lie . Rant over -  god bless Toyota / Lexus / Honda 

It’s okay if you buy a new German thanks to warranty but god help your wallet if you go for some older models. People often slag off japanese cars for not being “nice enough” inside and whilst it’s true unless you get a lexus, I’d choose less glam for reliability any day of the week. Not saying this is the case of your son, but so many people chase Badges and forget about the rest. I got my GT86 at 21 because i wanted a sporty car rather than something that might impress the ladies and I couldn’t of been happier 😁

[Mr Vlad]

That audi slogan vorsprung dork technique reminded me of a joke I heard decades ago. The punch line was That's the four sprung pork technique. Just thought I'd add that.

[toffee_pie]

8 hours ago, Steven9233 said:

To add to my post FYI , my son who is 21 is doing very well for himself and purchased a 2016 Mercedes C class couple in august last year , crazy car for a 21 year old and as a dad I wasn’t impressed ! Rather he saved up and buggered off to his own place 😅 

just look at this !  In the last 5 months with only 36k on clock he has had the following failures mostly and luckily fixed under Mercedes used car warranty as he bought from Southampton Mercedes’ main dealer 

electronic steering sensor failed - steering wheel vibrating when turning 

Air bag sensor failed earring lights up 

water pump- leaking coolant half the engine apart to replace lost car for 3 days 

engine light - loss of power on motorway fault traced to some engine control cam shaft sensor 

hand brake cable snapped !!! Yes it actually snapped they keep them on the shelf as it turns out as such a common problem .

knocking noise from front - he had to pay this one (wear and tear item ) both bottom ball joints although only done 2600 miles since purchase - I’m currently involved trying to get his costs back from the stealership 

this my friends is the difference between Japan and Germany !  This is a low mileage mint full merc history car and it is absolute mass produced junk !!  A Ford Focus would be far more durable , we counted up the cost had he of needed to pay all this from his own pocket looking at £3000 ish water pump alone was a 7 hour job .

NEVER allow your self to be fooled by the German lie !!  My 2012 is250 is as tight as a drum although 4 years older it is in a different galaxy in quality terms than his overrated s”” box . Obviously I don’t word it this way to my nipper he loves it and each to own he would much prefer the Lexus but being a v6 his insurance cost would buy a small country . But seriously if you needed an example of how the 3 pointed star or the Audi vus sprung technik or whatever the slogan is , then this is it .  I’ll walk to work before I ever spend my hard earnt money on the German lie . Im a Honda fan although I admit the range is now small and boring , but when you buy a Lexus a Honda a Toyota , you are buying a quality product , made by a workforce that value their jobs and reputation with quality and durability at the forefront of everything they do , yes they are machines and machines fail , the difference IMO is the Germans don’t give a s””” and it’s almost as if they are being built to fail .

Rant over -  god bless Toyota / Lexus / Honda 

Exactly, they are all garbage - fancy on the outside - garbage the rest. The build quality has gone downhill. They are crap and the same goes for BMW. Cars are made now like smartphones, due to be replaced every few years with little or no consideration for the end user and shoddy quality control.
I remember watching a video Scotty Kilmer done a while back, a very expensive new ish Mercedes - £100k+ of a car, he plugged his very expensive scanner into it and basically said I can’t fit this thing – impossible, it was riddled with faults. This is a mechanic with 30- or 40-years’ experience talking

My Subaru is even older at 2008 and its the most reliable car I have owned, and I have had quite a few. Its very unlike a IS250 in some ways but very similar in others, made in Japan with superb build quality and everything just works - all the time everytime.

And with EVs taking over you aint seen nothing yet

Manufacturer's done give a hoot about the consumer, they used to but not anymore.