Why are folk selling their is250's

[toffee_pie]

I think the value for money are V8 Lexus and ignore the expert's saying that the world is ending 

[toffee_pie]

5 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

My example of going round the roundabout in the pouring rain at stupid speeds. I doubt very much a car could have gone quicker. My frame of mind at that point was really I don't give a damn. I stopped because I was getting quite uncomfortable as the seats are not huggy type and I'm not as young and stupid like I was in the 80's lol but I was gobsmacked by my speed

Drive a car with a real LSD and you will know the difference, the ISF moved from a e-diff to a mechanical in or around 2010, you need to drive a lot of cars to appreciate the difference and not base your judgment on a solitary car 

[Mr Vlad]

Eric. My judgement comes from 35 years of driving over 50 different cars 29 of them being mine. More front wheel drive cars from Metro to 2.7 V6 Rover Vitesse and a few rear wheel drive cars from Morris Marina to Rover SD1 V8 and the best ever car to be built the UR Quattro and over half a million miles experience. So no I don't bade my judgement on a solitary car. Cheers 🍻 

[Lex_utor]

Hi gents! :)

I'm very late to the party. But I also noticed around me, that more IS250s are up for sale than usual. I remember looking for my car for about 1 year, as very few IS250s ever popped up for sale around here, let alone a manual, which is what I was after. Once I bought mine, a little over a year ago, now I see IS250 for sale all the time. Where you would be luck to see 1 or 2 a year before, now they are like 8. I was really surprised. Maybe it's the age, as many have said. Although since I bought mine I have not seen another manual for sale. 

For me, I have no idea what I would buy if I sold mine. So I think I will hold  on to it for a long while. Because what else can I buy that is newer, better, 4 doors, RWD and has a manual shifter? Even if I wanted a BMW, they are just not better. I actually dislike BMWs interiors and most of the external designs.

So for me, when I start thinking what I would replace my IS250 with, I give up real quick. I have thought of maybe an Infinity G37. But that is neither better, or really much newer. It's only different. And the good looking one is the coupe, which has no rear doors. And again, a manual is very rare. Almost impossible to find. 

I really like the Lexus. It's one of the cars I have had which I enjoy the most. And I have had a few performance cars. If I ever make peace with autos, I think I would just go for a 3rd generation IS. At this point I don't see much else.  I'm finding that Lexus kind of gets under your skin. I'm getting addicted to the luxury but combined with reliability, solid build quality, great finish and the sportness. At least my car feels pretty sporty. I was surprised as many say Lexus are older man cars. But I much prefer the way my car drives than a mate's 325i. In every way. And it looks better too.

So, not selling any time soon and when I do, I'm at a loss for what to get.  

[royoftherovers]

21 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

I think the value for money are V8 Lexus and ignore the expert's saying that the world is ending 

Eric, the World ended as we grew up Sir !😒😒

[H3XME]

13 hours ago, Lex_utor said:

I have thought of maybe an Infinity G37. But that is neither better, or really much newer. It's only different. And the good looking one is the coupe, which has no rear doors. And again, a manual is very rare. Almost impossible to find. 

There are G37s saloons. To be honest, they are quick with ~300hp and manual, but quite ugly in my opinion. I'd rather just have an IS350 and live with an automatic. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175352124203

[H3XME]

13 hours ago, dking22 said:

here its very rare when someone likes a manual 250, only auto box is the one. Most older men and probably other half cant even drive stick 😁

I have a manual but to be honest, for a general driving, the automatic is better suited for this car in my opinion. I have a few friends with this car and they all have automatics and they do drive very nice, so if I wasn't taking it drifting, I would have an automatic in this car as well. 

[H3XME]

On 9/10/2022 at 4:37 PM, Mr Vlad said:

You two may be able to answer this. The UR Quattro. Does that car have a LSD or not as I can't remember

From what I found, all had at least a centre locking differential to be able to send 50% of the power to the rear. 1987+ models had upgraded to a torsen differential, so it would lock up depending on the torque applied. So in short, yes it did have some kind of LSD and it does make a huge difference. 

[Mr Vlad]

Thanks Lucas. I just couldn't remember what my car had. So yesxive had experience of some kind of LSD (not the smoking or injecting type or swallowing type lol). What I remember of that cars handling and after having brand new wheels and top range tyres was that yes it stuck like pooh to a blanket and yes I did take that car to its limits (in a huge car park). Whilst I had that Quattro I also gad a 216 rover vitesse which I actually had more fun in. Sounds weird but I just can't explain it. Maybe coz it was more loose and the Quattro wrecking ones arms with the awesome grip. Though I did have it slide a good few times lol. Now could I have driven that car as fast as I did my lexus the other week? Because of my state of mind (yes I was in a bad place) I can't honestly say but in normal circumstances I'd say yes so I sit and accept what you 2 guys have said. 

[toffee_pie]

On 9/11/2022 at 7:27 PM, dking22 said:

here its very rare when someone likes a manual 250, only auto box is the one. Most older men and probably other half cant even drive stick 😁

I had a manual IS250, I was in denial at the time I think as to how bad it was because any owner of a car is proud of what they own, but after getting the six speed Subaru it’s just night and day and unless you drive a 6 speed Subaru, or indeed a Honda or other car with a razor-sharp close ratio gear box you won’t understand – these keep the engine running to its peak in terms of changes between gears, maximising available torque –– the Subaru transmission can handle masses of torque so if you bodge a gear change are you will probably destroy the engine before the gearbox itself, its why you see them used in Subaru’s with 800bhp+ on drag strips

[toffee_pie]

On 9/11/2022 at 6:15 PM, Mr Vlad said:

Eric. My judgement comes from 35 years of driving over 50 different cars 29 of them being mine. More front wheel drive cars from Metro to 2.7 V6 Rover Vitesse and a few rear wheel drive cars from Morris Marina to Rover SD1 V8 and the best ever car to be built the UR Quattro and over half a million miles experience. So no I don't bade my judgement on a solitary car. Cheers 🍻 

It’s a bit odd then that you were driving your IS250 auto around a roundabout a ‘silly’ speed to see what difference an LSD would make or not – when I had my Lexus, I was unaware of what LSDs actually done and you won’t find out in half an hour driving around a roundabout in the wet, even a car equipped with LSD can spin out in such conditions. AWD gives you another trick up your sleeve however as more wheels are having traction on the road surface but really driving around a roundabout even in the wet is not a very good test to see is an LSD equipped car better – it’s the sum of parts, they will provide more grip/traction over a non-LSD equipped car – its what they are designed to do its why almost every performance car has a LSD fitted as a matter of principle - fitting a locking/torsen type LSD to a IS250 would cost £2k or more I would imagine

[H3XME]

22 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

fitting a locking/torsen type LSD to a IS250 would cost £2k or more I would imagine

~£400 for a used 86/BRZ diff (or ~£700 for new Quaife ATB mechanical LSD) + 1-2h labour charge..

It's a bolt on part on IS250.

Some is250 came with torsen lsd from the factory - like mine. It's not the best, but next step up is a plated LSD like Kaaz or Cusco but having the 1.5way (1.5 way = 100% lock acceleration, 50% lock decel) in the 86, I wouldn't necessarily want one in a daily car as it's clunky(noisy) during very low speed manoeuvres such as parking. There's a reason why they're only really used in motorsports. They work, just not something you'd want in a brand new car should it come with one. 

To be fair, LSD will help you put the power down BUT I'm not sure it's the best for inexperienced drivers in a rwd car as it WILL make the over-ration easier aka you're more likely to spin out. This is why open diff makes it almost impossible for you to do e.g. donuts because only one wheel is spinning. You'll always drag one of them so it will feel like you're going in circles. 

[H3XME]

11 minutes ago, dking22 said:

What kind of is250s came from factory with LSD? Only manuals?

Yeah manuals but not all I don't think.

[H3XME]

10 minutes ago, dking22 said:

If you mean this semi-lsd F20SX/FD20A then this in not a true lsd. Not sure if all 250 have it or only the "sport" models

Mine isn't a sport model. Just a regular SE with navi, M&L, leather interior..

It's the same torsen toyota has been putting into their cars for decades. Same diff as is300, chaser, 86... That's why it's interchangeable across those models.

[toffee_pie]

On 9/12/2022 at 9:37 PM, H3XME said:

~£400 for a used 86/BRZ diff (or ~£700 for new Quaife ATB mechanical LSD) + 1-2h labour charge..

It's a bolt on part on IS250.

Some is250 came with torsen lsd from the factory - like mine. It's not the best, but next step up is a plated LSD like Kaaz or Cusco but having the 1.5way (1.5 way = 100% lock acceleration, 50% lock decel) in the 86, I wouldn't necessarily want one in a daily car as it's clunky(noisy) during very low speed manoeuvres such as parking. There's a reason why they're only really used in motorsports. They work, just not something you'd want in a brand new car should it come with one. 

To be fair, LSD will help you put the power down BUT I'm not sure it's the best for inexperienced drivers in a rwd car as it WILL make the over-ration easier aka you're more likely to spin out. This is why open diff makes it almost impossible for you to do e.g. donuts because only one wheel is spinning. You'll always drag one of them so it will feel like you're going in circles. 

With the charges garages do nowadays I seriously doubt you can get a LSD fitted that cheap, even an oil change is going into a few hundred quid nowadays

I thought the IS250 has an open type? from my experience with the Subaru I wouldn’t be keen to drive any car with 400bhp plus that is without a LSD, I wouldn’t be driving it as enthusiastically as I would normally, you might not get the back end to kick on a roundabout with a IS250 but try that with a RWD car with over 400 horses and it will be a different story

Don’t know what this clunky noise is about, they only do that is they are fubared then again there as so many types out there maybe others make a din, Subaru torsen ones make a noise alright if they are on their way out. If you put on matching tyres and get the diff fluid looked after etc they should last a long time – even driving the spare wheel can damage them that’s why its to be used on the front only

 

[H3XME]

2 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

With the charges garages do nowadays I seriously doubt you can get a LSD fitted that cheap, even an oil change is going into a few hundred quid nowadays

I thought the IS250 has an open type? from my experience with the Subaru I wouldn’t be keen to drive any car with 400bhp plus that is without a LSD, I wouldn’t be driving it as enthusiastically as I would normally, you might not get the back end to kick on a roundabout with a IS250 but try that with a RWD car with over 400 horses and it will be a different story

Don’t know what this clunky noise is about, they only do that is they are fubared then again there as so many types out there maybe others make a din, Subaru torsen ones make a noise alright if they are on their way out. If you put on matching tyres and get the diff fluid looked after etc they should last a long time – even driving the spare wheel can damage them that’s why its to be used on the front only

 

Debatable. it's a DIY job tbh. 

Not all of them, no. I'd say any car over 200hp, let alone 400+. You need it on FWD cars to get rid of torque steer and on everything else it's just better. You won't get the back end out easy on a round about in a stock is250 but stiffen up the rear end with coilovers and it'll be a lot more lively. 86 for example only has 200hp but because it's ~1240kg it goes out rather easily, so it really depends on more than just power. 

No I meant the clunky noise is with plated differentials. Not torsen. You have different types. Helical (geared - similar to torsen) and plated diffs (those are very aggressive, clunky by design and therefore only used in motorsports) 

 

[toffee_pie]

21 hours ago, H3XME said:

No I meant the clunky noise is with plated differentials. Not torsen. You have different types. Helical (geared - similar to torsen) and plated diffs (those are very aggressive, clunky by design and therefore only used in motorsports) 

That explains it so, no need for a full-on motorsport diff for me, I was going to put on uprated transmission mounts on my car until I found out they make the car so loud inside, no chance can I put up with it.

I think the side effect of many high-performance parts is NVH and longevity. One thing I like about the Legacy is that it’s like a Impreza STi for grown-ups, but with a more comfortable relaxed ride - I think that is what was used in the sales pitch - I wouldn’t get a STi as I need a daily and that won’t work plus it gathers too much attention for my liking

[H3XME]

12 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

That explains it so, no need for a full-on motorsport diff for me, I was going to put on uprated transmission mounts on my car until I found out they make the car so loud inside, no chance can I put up with it.

I think the side effect of many high-performance parts is NVH and longevity. One thing I like about the Legacy is that it’s like a Impreza STi for grown-ups, but with a more comfortable relaxed ride - I think that is what was used in the sales pitch - I wouldn’t get a STi as I need a daily and that won’t work plus it gathers too much attention for my liking

Imprezas are also fugly in my opinion. I only like the VAB, the latest 2015+ shape. Otherwise I'd pick a legacy over other imprezas. I also really like the Levorg, but shame they never put a decent engine in it..

[markeyszoo]

Having passed three score and 10 some years ago, I consider myself qualified to speak on the subject of old men and "stick" or manual gear change as we used to call it.

What you forgot is that my generation hardly saw any automatic gearboxes and nearly all learned to drive manual cars.

We may not choose to drive manual now but it is like riding a bike, you never forget, and anyway is not that great a skill.

[Mr Vlad]

Well said Mike. And to put a cat amongst the pigeons. A question. What kind of gearbox does a formula 1 have? Clue: it's not a manual. 

Thise who say a car drives better with a manual gearbox and that you have more control are unfortunately misguided. The best thing about a manual gearbox is that they're a doddle to service. Auto gearbox is a ruddy nightmare by comparison. 

[H3XME]

59 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Well said Mike. And to put a cat amongst the pigeons. A question. What kind of gearbox does a formula 1 have? Clue: it's not a manual. 

Thise who say a car drives better with a manual gearbox and that you have more control are unfortunately misguided. The best thing about a manual gearbox is that they're a doddle to service. Auto gearbox is a ruddy nightmare by comparison. 

It's because today's performance auto gearboxes are faster shifting and behave better than any manual. CVT and regular auto boxes in regular cars are not as good as manuals for sporty driving. 

For peak performance, DCT automatics are better. It's a fact. You'll never shift quicker in a manual, but a lot of petrol heads will tell you it's more fun and engaging to drive a manual in certain conditions. In real world you don't care about tenths of a seconds. You wanna have fun, and for a lot of people that means changing gears the traditional way. 

Is250 is a good example. This car is better with auto box 99% of the time. It's better suited to what the car is made for. However, it's not faster than a manual.. if you go for a country lanes bash, this automatic transmission can't keep up. It's slow, it's not a quick crisp shift you'd get from a modern Dual Clutch Transmission, but that's okay because it's not a sports car.

[Mr Vlad]

Yes Lucas. I agree totally that in the is250 the manual shifts much faster than the auto. It does in all older cars and it suits a good proportion of owners. Me I wouldn't go back to manuals (unless I got a focus RS lol)

[toffee_pie]

Done an oil change yesterday, this is how it sounds on startup. Dont make em like they used to, with the hood down its just humming away, I drove quite a few diesel cars at work, the last one was new-ish Ford and the noise was quite horrible, I thought mdoern diesel cars were more refined

 

[toffee_pie]

53 minutes ago, H3XME said:

It's because today's performance auto gearboxes are faster shifting and behave better than any manual. CVT and regular auto boxes in regular cars are not as good as manuals for sporty driving. 

For peak performance, DCT automatics are better. It's a fact. You'll never shift quicker in a manual, but a lot of petrol heads will tell you it's more fun and engaging to drive a manual in certain conditions. In real world you don't care about tenths of a seconds. You wanna have fun, and for a lot of people that means changing gears the traditional way. 

Is250 is a good example. This car is better with auto box 99% of the time. It's better suited to what the car is made for. However, it's not faster than a manual.. if you go for a country lanes bash, this automatic transmission can't keep up. It's slow, it's not a quick crisp shift you'd get from a modern Dual Clutch Transmission, but that's okay because it's not a sports car.

The problem with this auto / manual debate is there are endless types of manual gearboxes - you need to drive different cars and get a feel for the different types of gearboxes available - everyone knows modern auto boxes shift faster than any human can blink but they will never replace that connection the driver has with the car itself as they push a button on the steering wheel and wait for the response, they don’t do anything else – and then there is this

 

[toffee_pie]

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Well said Mike. And to put a cat amongst the pigeons. A question. What kind of gearbox does a formula 1 have? Clue: it's not a manual. 

Thise who say a car drives better with a manual gearbox and that you have more control are unfortunately misguided. The best thing about a manual gearbox is that they're a doddle to service. Auto gearbox is a ruddy nightmare by comparison. 

Transmissions be it auto or manual should last for the life of the car, there is no reason for them to ever break. Autos are more complex and far more likely to go wrong than a manual, if a manual breaks 99 percent of the time its down the owner, be it bodged gear shifts, neglect from fluid changes etc.  The six-speed box on the Subaru is absolutely huge and 680bhp / 500lb ft of torque has been mentioned on scooby net forums, worn synchro’s look to be common on such power levels. A IS250 transmission would split in two with them figures.

Many garages won’t even replace transmission oil on auto boxes as they don’t want to be liable for damage caused - CVT fluid in many cars is to last the life of the car which is just nonsense but many garages won’t touch it. 

All transmission fluid should be replaced at around 60/70K miles, auto or manual