Why are folk selling their is250's

[bernieeccles]

2 hours ago, SeanR said:

Great in the snow, remember flying past folk that were stuck, basically anything rear wheel driven.

I used to have a VW Bora 130 TDI. Come winter, I would put my set of spare wheels shod with Nokian winter tyres and that thing would romp up steep hills with fresh snow or old slush, where other cars with normal tyres would be at a standstill with spinning wheels.

Of course none of this would matter if the road was blocked with stuck vehicles because you could not get passed and that would also apply to any fancy 4 wheel drive.

[SeanR]

A few times gone around folk and at the same time they are giving it what for on the accelerator, trying get un-stuck.

Result is they are going sideways as you come along side.

Got watch out for that, had a few close calls.

[LenT]

13 hours ago, bernieeccles said:

I used to have a VW Bora 130 TDI. Come winter, I would put my set of spare wheels shod with Nokian winter tyres and that thing would romp up steep hills with fresh snow or old slush, where other cars with normal tyres would be at a standstill with spinning wheels.

This brought back fond memories of my first car 60 years ago - a Ford 100E with a three-speed box.  My first winter was marked by a heavy snowfall one morning which I spent romping up the local hills of north London, weaving past the many floundering cars of the more affluent ie everyone else!

I’ve no idea what tyres it had, but the traction was remarkable.  Although it may well have benefited from the sack of coal that for some unaccountable reason I had in the boot!

No doubt a winter accessory that could be just as effective today.  🙂

 

[Texas]

If you could find one! 😀

[H3XME]

3 hours ago, SeanR said:

A few times gone around folk and at the same time they are giving it what for on the accelerator, trying get un-stuck.

Yeah to be honest, I was driving my 86 to work when we had a snowfall in 2018, and it being very light rwd car on summer tyres it wasn't the best but still managed to get up hills better than majority of other cars. There's a quite big long uphill dual carriagway to where I used to live at the time and going up it was quite fun.. Had run up, and when I was 80% there I started slowing down but with traction control fully off, I was able to spin through the snow - I was gently bashing it off the rev limiter at 7500rpm but because it has a limited slip differential, both wheel would lock up so I would still go straight. And again in 2020, I was driving the Lexus then and I didn't have much of an issue as the car is almost 400kg heavier, but the traction control off & limited slip diff saved the day. Was able to get everywhere I needed to, little slower than AWD cars but it managed unlike other 2 wheel drive cars. 

 

1 hour ago, LenT said:

I’ve no idea what tyres it had, but the traction was remarkable.  Although it may well have benefited from the sack of coal that for some unaccountable reason I had in the boot!

Skinny tyres help in the snow! This is a bit of a problem these days as cars are getting bigger and the traction control isn't very good on snow, it kicks in too soon - some cars you can't even turn it off so I'd have no chance getting anywhere the way I was doing it.

[MartinH]

On 8/25/2022 at 12:12 AM, Linas.P said:

On Lexus IS250 17" premium tyres are £80-90

Please tell us where? Last time I replaced the Michelins they were £120, and that was early 2021

[H3XME]

21 minutes ago, MartinH said:

Please tell us where? Last time I replaced the Michelins they were £120, and that was early 2021

Tbh if you want good tyres cheap, you should have rims to run 225/40R18 tyres as they're the most popular size therefore cheaper than other sizes

[MartinH]

1 minute ago, H3XME said:

Tbh if you want good tyres cheap, you should have rims to run 225/40R18 tyres as they're the most popular size therefore cheaper than other sizes

Nice concept, but I'm sticking with the wheels I've got (as grungy as they are)

[LenT]

9 hours ago, H3XME said:

and the traction control isn't very good on snow, it kicks in too soon - some cars you can't even turn it off so I'd have no chance getting anywhere the way I was doing it.

An interesting point.

There are times when ‘progress’ looks like a step backwards.  My Ford 100E taught me traction control was about using the clutch and accelerator in appropriate amounts.

Maybe there’s a case for learning to drive in a car that forces you to learn how to drive! 🤔

[H3XME]

2 minutes ago, LenT said:

An interesting point.

There are times when ‘progress’ looks like a step backwards.  My Ford 100E taught me traction control was about using the clutch and accelerator in appropriate amounts.

Maybe there’s a case for learning to drive in a car that forces you to learn how to drive! 🤔

I agree. People rely on these luxuries too much these days.

[Mr Vlad]

Since folk are posting about traction on snow. When I started at a fruit n veg wholesaler I was loaded with just 3 drops but 2 pallets of onions were put on over the rear wheels. I was going to Barnoldswick and was told without the onions I'd not make it up the hill. It worked. I got up that hill with ease, yes it was very snowy.

Another example of weights and traction. The firm I worked for is a family firm and one of the brothers loaded my truck with 4 pallets of onions (I secured them as no-one ties down a load better than me). He drove a rear wheel drive sports car and no way would he get home to Glossop in it hence why he used my truck. I asked how he got on on the next day. Murdered it he said. 

So most definitely yes adding weight over the drive wheels will help a lot in snow.

[Texas]

That’s how a locomotive train can pull 1,000 tonnes+ with only a couple of square inches of actual wheel contact ( metal on metal!) with the rail because it’s weight is 100 tonnes+, if it were lighter it would just wheel spin even with 1,000+ HP.

[H3XME]

2 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

So most definitely yes adding weight over the drive wheels will help a lot in snow.

100% I remember my dad telling me that he'd be putting bags of sand in the boot for winter to get better traction 😂 it does work!

[toffee_pie]

On 8/25/2022 at 12:34 PM, H3XME said:

Eric, I'm not saying the EZ30 Legacy is slow, I'm just saying it can't compare to everything only because it's AWD and has almost 250hp. (>Supposedly.. Subaru, like other manufacturers tend to be figure happy on paper. Stock BRZ/86 isn't 200hp either like they claim. - I had it dyno'd when it was stock) Either way, it is still more powerful/better than most cars on the roads even today.

Your AWD system will significantly help you in bad conditions, otherwise it's arguable. You will also take corners differently to me, you can't step on it mid corner to "tighten" the line or it'll want to understeer/ naturally take wider line because of your almost evenly split power delivery. On dry tarmac racing you will find your Subaru to be not as good as RWD cars or AWD cars with better split between rear wheels. BMW X-Drive, Skyline GT-Rs... They can all send up to 95% power to rear wheels. If you prefer AWD, fine, it's a preference. It sure does make you feel like nothing (or a lot less) can go wrong as you can drive fast more relaxed because it can save your a*s like a safety cushion. A lot of people with RWD cars are guilty of over-tyre-ing their cars because it makes them feel safer, but it ruins the handling of the car. Whatever you're comfortable with, but coming at me saying my car is sh*t, not knowing anything about its suspension, alignment, brakes or tyres and the purpose of the setup is a silly thing to do. One thing is sure though, less than 15mins of driving to the max on twisty B roads and you're done with the Legacy because you'll cook the brakes. 

Remove the Subaru and say its Golf R32, would you fancy your chances against that? the only reason I mentioned it is because the Subaru is just as quick. My car is modified quite a bit and handlng is razor sharp and I do full alignment each year to ensure all is in order. I dont get the point in people spending big money on uprated brakes when you can get far better performance seen with uprating the suspension, the SpecBs of course have Bilstein struts standard which help massively and the torsen LSD which I think the GT86 has also and make a huge difference to handling which is already amazing as I drive on B roads all the time now and if anyone should know its me, but if I put Ohlin suspension on it you would struggle to keep up in your Toyota but even as it stands I would be pretty surprised if you could keep up to me coming out of a bend if I floored it shifting up to 4th, my car is mapped for 99RON and the AVCS timing has been adjusted in the remap but its only evident when I switch to S# mode, using this in city is too much as the throttle response is too agressive

The Lexus ISF put on mechanical diffs around 2010 when they had the facelift, you cant underestimate the importance of them, its one of the things puting me off the Jaguar XFR as hauling that without a LSD is madness. I have brembo pads on my car, Xtra ones fitted up front, which I think are the same type available for the GT86/BRZ - The discs are MTEC grooved, they are a few years old and no problems at all and I drive quite brisk or to put it another way outside of motorways I dont recall getting overtaken. I drove a e208 a few months ago at work, I drove on the same route home and if I drove as quick as I did my Subaru I get the impression that Peugeot would end up in a ditch

You mentiomend an Audi RS4, a quick car no doubt but I need a daily and the RS4 screams money pit, in 6+ years the Subaru needed a sticky caliper, a steering bush, reverse position switch and a wheel bearing - aside from usual fluid changes.

I would like to get a different car but my hands are tied as I have no space for it and not selling the Subaru, all I know it it will be petrol and 6+ cylinders - so much to choose from

 

[toffee_pie]

On 8/26/2022 at 8:12 PM, Mr Vlad said:

Since folk are posting about traction on snow. When I started at a fruit n veg wholesaler I was loaded with just 3 drops but 2 pallets of onions were put on over the rear wheels. I was going to Barnoldswick and was told without the onions I'd not make it up the hill. It worked. I got up that hill with ease, yes it was very snowy.

Another example of weights and traction. The firm I worked for is a family firm and one of the brothers loaded my truck with 4 pallets of onions (I secured them as no-one ties down a load better than me). He drove a rear wheel drive sports car and no way would he get home to Glossop in it hence why he used my truck. I asked how he got on on the next day. Murdered it he said. 

So most definitely yes adding weight over the drive wheels will help a lot in snow.

The Subaru in the last clip is a GT limited so Automatic, the manual would handle even better with its 50/50 distribution, Autos are 60/40 or something

The problem is they are rare so getting clips of them is hard - the USA have the 2.5 GT SpecB in 6 speed manual (250hp 4 cylinder turbo) but I would imagine they would cost $15k+ they only sold  < 2000 in the USA

 

[H3XME]

9 hours ago, toffee_pie said:

Remove the Subaru and say its Golf R32, would you fancy your chances against that? - MK4 / MK5 4motion? Sure, it's similar to the Scooby. Although from experience the Subaru would be nicer to drive than an ecobox with a meatier drivetrain. 

I dont get the point in people spending big money on uprated brakes when you can get far better performance seen with uprating the suspension - It's a natural course of actions, you tweak the suspension - which will essentially make the car faster and then you need better brakes since you drive faster. 

torsen LSD which I think the GT86 has also and make a huge difference to handling - Yes, it does make a difference when you put your foot down, I've got the same torsen in my IS250 too.. not the best as far as diffs go, but better than open. 

if I put Ohlin suspension on it you would struggle to keep up in your Toyota - Ohlins are very good. Also a very good way to spend over £2k if you want top mounts with them.. I'm already on coilovers, Cusco on the 86 & Tein on the Lexus but those are budget in comparison.

Jaguar XFR as hauling that without a LSD is madness. - stupid and dangerous almost.

I drove a e208 a few months ago at work, I drove on the same route home and if I drove as quick as I did my Subaru I get the impression that Peugeot would end up in a ditch - not surprised. hardly comparable cars 😃

You mentiomend an Audi RS4, a quick car no doubt but I need a daily and the RS4 screams money pit - yes, can say the same about your cayman comment.. 

 

 

[toffee_pie]

 

4 hours ago, H3XME said:

yes, can say the same about your cayman comment

A 3.4 Cayman would be a better purchase than a RS4, I dont know if I want a coupe but it would be more reliable than an ageing RS4 I would imagine, dont think they are AWD however

[H3XME]

1 hour ago, toffee_pie said:

 

A 3.4 Cayman would be a better purchase than a RS4, I dont know if I want a coupe but it would be more reliable than an ageing RS4 I would imagine, dont think they are AWD however

Caymans aren't, but 911 are.. Carrera 4, they are around 30k still though😬 

[toffee_pie]

29 minutes ago, H3XME said:

Caymans aren't, but 911 are.. Carrera 4, they are around 30k still though😬 

You pay for the good stuff 🙂

[Mr Vlad]

All this LSD v none LSD malarkey got me thinking. I've got a reputation of me being a mad (expletive). I've never modified a car (except installing hifi). I've driven every car I've had like I stole it and yes even the RX450H I had (and for its size and weight it handles really really good) and I've raced so called 'sports' cars (beemers mercs etc) and either kept up with them or whooped their farses. 

My current car the superb is250 is just a really really good handling car. I did an experiment this week at a roundabout under the M627. It was peeing down so I thought what the hell and went around it time after time after time going faster each time. I really wanted to lose control of the car but I gave up at just over 70 as I thought that's way to fast in the pouring rain to be going round a roundabout. 

Now then could I have gone faster in a car with a LSD? I doubt it. Could I have gone faster in a M3? I doubt it. Could I have gone faster in a Caterham? I'm not sure.

The is250 is a ruddy good handling car and I can't see reason to modify the suspension or brakes. That's my personal opinion and  probably that of quite a few.

It's good to banter however and there are those who have and do and will modify their cars as its their choice and they have their reasons. Good on them. But please don't come back saying my modified car handles better than standard. For 'normal ' owners it doesn't. It'd probably ride harder to normal owners.

The is250 is not a sports car. Its a sublime cruiser. However if the need arose it can get out of trouble quite safely. 

Enjoy your cars my fellow owners 😉 

[H3XME]

14 minutes ago, Mr Vlad said:

Now then could I have gone faster in a car with a LSD? I doubt it. Could I have gone faster in a M3? I doubt it. Could I have gone faster in a Caterham? I'm not sure.

 

don't come back saying my modified car handles better than standard. For 'normal ' owners it doesn't. It'd probably ride harder to normal owners.

Yes you could have, because thanks to the LSD the power goes down to both wheels. And since both wheels are being driven you increase traction. 

 

It does handle/perform better. It's a fact, however it's only true under certain circumstances. If the purpose of your car was to go faster and be more stable at higher speeds (not straight lines obviously) then yes, modifying suspension and brakes is definitely worth it. Otherwise you'll have very little gain. 

I'd argue the comfort side of things as well because with a damping adjustable suspension you'll set the car to softer than standard but it depends how far you go. If you polybush the car it will be a lot stiffer without having the option of adjusting it. 

[toffee_pie]

It's a valid question, but to fully answer it you need to dive into LSDs and understand the role they play, the torsen type is explained here quite well.

The Torsen is the ultimate performance differential. Combine a well balanced suspension package on your Mustang with a Torsen for incredible traction! The Torsen's unique torque-sensing ability keeps engine power going to the ground during changing traction conditions. The Torsen functions as an open differential as long as the amount of torque transmitted to each rear wheel remains equal. When one tire begins to lose traction, the Torsen instantly senses the change in torque being applied to the ground. The excess torque that cannot be delivered to the ground by the tire that is beginning to lose traction is delivered to the opposite tire, which has better traction and can take more torque.

..so when slippage occurs you will have traction applied to a wheel which would not occur in a non torsen equipped car. When you consider all the different elements of driving, weather, road conditions etc etc it's a very great thing to have on a car and why a 500 hp Jag XF without a LSD seems a bad idea. 

I've been driving my Subaru in torrential rain, monsoon type weather in speeds I wouldn't dare had I not the AWD setup with LSD etc I currently have and to see the difference LSD make's try taking off when the road is wet as opposed to continually driving around in circles 

[toffee_pie]

12 minutes ago, H3XME said:

Yes you could have, because thanks to the LSD the power goes down to both wheels. And since both wheels are being driven you increase traction. 

 

It does handle/perform better. It's a fact, however it's only true under certain circumstances. If the purpose of your car was to go faster and be more stable at higher speeds (not straight lines obviously) then yes, modifying suspension and brakes is definitely worth it. Otherwise you'll have very little gain. 

I'd argue the comfort side of things as well because with a damping adjustable suspension you'll set the car to softer than standard but it depends how far you go. If you polybush the car it will be a lot stiffer without having the option of adjusting it. 

I have white line bushes, anti lift kit and the bilstein suspension which is stock. The handling is completely different than a Lexus IS250, apple's and oranges. It's great for country roads as it sticks to the road so well, driving in cities with horrible Cambodian type road surface and speed bumps every 500 yards in England, not so much you need to travel at a snail pace 

[H3XME]

31 minutes ago, toffee_pie said:

I have white line bushes, anti lift kit and the bilstein suspension which is stock. The handling is completely different than a Lexus IS250, apple's and oranges. It's great for country roads as it sticks to the road so well, driving in cities with horrible Cambodian type road surface and speed bumps every 500 yards in England, not so much you need to travel at a snail pace 

That's what I mean. It's better for its purpose. Normal user who drives normally won't see the benefits 

[Mr Vlad]

And there in are my points. I have no qualms about modifying. A good proportion of folk do and good for them. I don't. As for going faster round corners with or without LSD is neither here or there. 

You two may be able to answer this. The UR Quattro. Does that car have a LSD or not as I can't remember. I had one for near 7 years. Stolen recovered twice. Looked after meticulously. After itcwas stolen first time I parked it up whist repairs were done. I got a Rover 216 vitesse which was one helluva good car. I can honestly say I had more fun driving that front wheel car than the super grippy 4 wheel monster. That was in the 80's were we had much less traffic on the roads and the roads were a  bit better than now.

My example of going round the roundabout in the pouring rain at stupid speeds. I doubt very much a car could have gone quicker. My frame of mind at that point was really I don't give a damn. I stopped because I was getting quite uncomfortable as the seats are not huggy type and I'm not as young and stupid like I was in the 80's lol but I was gobsmacked by my speed. 

Anyway there's 27 SE-L is250's on auto trader today. Prices seems to be dropping. Looks like a good time to but. A couple of low milers which is surprising.