Will Lexus reliability be devalued

[Las Palmas]

16 minutes ago, Winston said:

I think it will be less than that, I own a couple of garages and Mot centres that do work for the leasing companies. They are not accepting the EV work as not enough profit in it and the leasing companies are desperate for garages to carry out the work as so many business user are going electric for tax purposes , but for the leasing companies, we have to collect and deliver the vehicle, so you collect and deliver back a car  that’s an hours driving, to do a service that is about 0.6 of an hour. They want you to work for £45-49 per hour then take a cut of full invoice on the back side of 5%. There are no cam belts to do, no engine oil, oil filters, air filter or spark plugs to make profit on.

Brake pads and discs were good earners but unlikely to see and of those in the 3 years leasing deal. You will have a pollen filter replacement and wiper blades when they are due. So we do not want that work 1.6 hours for about £22 . Definitely not 80% (note our normal labour rate is £65)

obviously the main agent charge more but the leasing companies don’t use them unless they have to.

Not sure how garages are going to survive on EV work, labour rates will need to go up massively.

 

Other ways of powering cars will come as electricity will not be available enough to charge all the cars that are privately or leased driven. There is not power enough on the net. And the material needed to build batteries for new cars and replacing less powerful batteries is not available in the amount it is needed.

Hydrogen is now being produced in large quantities for shipping and heavy truck driving and with all the windmills being built and placed in the sea the power will be little polluting. Sooner or later that will be available for cars too.

What we need now is places where combustion engines can be converted to hydrogen. Should not be much more complicated than converting to LPG. That would give the service work back to your workshops, so maybe you could make some of these conversion works. A car like your red one would be a fantastic project. Think about having it driving around and pouring pure water out of the exhaust.

[Winston]

Just now, royoftherovers said:

Lots of valid points,but the proof of the pudding.........................

The problem we get Roy is that if you go to the main agent for a service ICE or EV they just have a set price £350 say, with no real breakdown.

when we service a vehicle we have a set book time and set prices for parts for the leasing companies. I bought my wife a new Audi Q2 in 2017

and on the anniversary Audi sent me a service reminder for the first service, it was £349 , now the first service is basically an oil and filter change and an inspection. Which we do for £99, I don’t know what sort of imaginary labour rate they must be on to charge £349 . So the main agents always make their money.

P.S Even though we service her Audi I will be taking the LC500 into Lexus

[Las Palmas]

4 minutes ago, Winston said:

P.S Even though we service her Audi I will be taking the LC500 into Lexus

We take our car to Lexus for service, but only because the hybrid Battery is warranted that way. Without that Battery I would go somewhere else.

[Winston]

2 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Other ways of powering cars will come as electricity will not be available enough to charge all the cars that are privately or leased driven. There is not power enough on the net. And the material needed to build batteries for new cars and replacing less powerful batteries is not available in the amount it is needed.

Hydrogen is now being produced in large quantities for shipping and heavy truck driving and with all the windmills being built and placed in the sea the power will be little polluting. Sooner or later that will be available for cars too.

What we need now is places where combustion engines can be converted to hydrogen. Should not be much more complicated than converting to LPG. That would give the service work back to your workshops, so maybe you could make some of these conversion works. A car like your red one would be a fantastic project. Think about having it driving around and pouring pure water out of the exhaust.

Hydrogen is a lotus less efficient than electric/ Battery vehicles 

but it does address a lot of the problems with supplying the amount of power required and also the amount of raw materials needed.

so your point is a good one but also there is the chance that new inventions and technology may address a lot of the Battery EV problems.

as Roy said we will see, this is such a strange times of competing and changing technologies is is hard to envision where we will be by the 2030 deadline.

Interesting times

[Winston]

2 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

We take our car to Lexus for service, but only because the hybrid battery is warranted that way. Without that battery I would go somewhere else.

The Battery warranty won’t be affected by where you take it for a service

that would only be if like Lexus they offer a warranty over and above the normal time frame.

We service vehicle from new for all makes and the warranty is not affected.

[Malc]

2 minutes ago, Winston said:

where we will be by the 2030 deadline

which in Germany has just been totally abandoned .  petrol and diesel can live ......  and indeed, as I've said before on here somwhere .  it's only us loopies in the west that have this issue ...  not sure how anyone's gonna cross the Gobi or the Sahara in an EV anytime soon .............  well, unless there's a solar power charger maybe ....  NOW, there's a thought !

Malc

[Winston]

Sorry if I am waffling on a lot everyone 

I have never typed so much , obviously hits a bit of a nerve this topic 

I’ll quieten down a bit now.

Make the most of the sunshine everyone 

[Las Palmas]

2 minutes ago, Winston said:

Hydrogen is a lotus less efficient than electric/ battery vehicles 

but it does address a lot of the problems with supplying the amount of power required and also the amount of raw materials needed.

so your point is a good one but also there is the chance that new inventions and technology may address a lot of the battery EV problems.

as Roy said we will see, this is such a strange times of competing and changing technologies is is hard to envision where we will be by the 2030 deadline.

Interesting times

Batteries have been worked on intensely for a long time now. And still no real progress. Even if that should happen, the batteries need to be charged and do you honestly think that the electricity net will be made strong enough to deliver power to all cars? I do not. Hydrogen is little evaluated for car use, but if it is found good enough for gigantic engines to make some of the worlds biggest shipping companies invest gigantic amount of money in it if they did not think they would get that money back? I do not.

Toyota and Hyundai are working on hydrogen fuelled engines and I hope to see not fuel cell driven cars but combustion engines powered with hydrogen.

[Winston]

12 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Batteries have been worked on intensely for a long time now. And still no real progress. Even if that should happen, the batteries need to be charged and do you honestly think that the electricity net will be made strong enough to deliver power to all cars? I do not. Hydrogen is little evaluated for car use, but if it is found good enough for gigantic engines to make some of the worlds biggest shipping companies invest gigantic amount of money in it if they did not think they would get that money back? I do not.

Toyota and Hyundai are working on hydrogen fuelled engines and I hope to see not fuel cell driven cars but combustion engines powered with hydrogen.

I think Hydrogen is the way to go for trucks and vans at the moment 

it solves all their problems eg range, weight and refuelling times.

the larger the Battery to gain range the less weight a commercial vehicle can carry so hydrogen makes great sense. As you say I am sure hydrogen cars can be improved with time, but I don’t thing they will be able to be as efficient as Battery vehicles as producing hydrogen takes power then delivering it to fuels stations takes power and costs and you lose some power reverting it back to electricity. That is not to say it’s not going to happen, Battery production for all vehicles may be a problem and like you also mention electric grid capacity. 

[Winston]

So much for quieting down 🤪

[Las Palmas]

32 minutes ago, Winston said:

as producing hydrogen takes power then delivering it to fuels stations takes power and costs and you lose some power reverting it back to electricity

Well that is more or less not correct. To produce hydrogen you need electricity and water, and little hydrogen producing plants are made that can produce hydrogen where the fuelling plants are.

[Las Palmas]

24 minutes ago, Winston said:

So much for quieting down 🤪

Typing is good exercise for your fingers.

[Winston]

2 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Well that is more or less not correct. To produce hydrogen you need electricity and water, and little hydrogen plants are made that can produce hydrogen where the fuelling plants are.

Sorry Las Palmas what was the incorrect bit?

to produce hydrogen you need electricity (that is electricity that could go straight into a battery) so to produce Hydrogen you lose some of electricity to put it simply and when you turn it back to electricity you lose some more power. And put a hydrogen plant near every filling station? How would that ever be practical?

I am not saying hydrogen may not be a way forward I am just stating it is not as an efficient way to produce power in a vehicle as electricity through the grid into the Battery.

 

[Winston]

5 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Typing is good exercise for your fingers.

My wife will be happy😂

[Las Palmas]

11 minutes ago, Winston said:

Sorry Las Palmas what was the incorrect bit?

to produce hydrogen you need electricity (that is electricity that could go straight into a battery) so to produce Hydrogen you lose some of electricity to put it simply and when you turn it back to electricity you lose some more power. And put a hydrogen plant near every filling station? How would that ever be practical?

I am not saying hydrogen may not be a way forward I am just stating it is not as an efficient way to produce power in a vehicle as electricity through the grid into the battery.

 

True that it could charge a Battery, but as mentioned before there are not materials enough to make batteries for all the cars in the world and charging time for an EV is quite long whereas filling time with hydrogen is as fast as filling a car with gasoline. You can superfast charge a Battery and it will quickly lose capacity. Every time you change energy from one kind to another some of it will be wasted. Look at the good side: Water from where hydrogen is taken will come back when the hydrogen has been burned and combustion engines are already there just waiting to be made ready for a different kind of fuel.

Another good thing with hydrogen compared with gasoline this time is that if spilled it will disappear in the air not poisonous where gasoline will be dangerously laying where it is spilled.

And the sound of a combustion engine takes a very good audio to produce. Some open their windows in tunnels to listen to the wonderful music their engines make. We have had funny cars before we retired, now a quiet CT with Levison is all we need to be transported around.

[Winston]

It’s to early to tell we’re it will end, even with batteries they talk of carbon batteries, graphene batteries , solid state batteries, sodium batteries 

sorry that last one was assault and Battery 🤭

[DavidCM]

As this thread is "running low on charge",what about synthetic fuel.Porsche is building a factory on Chile to manufacture this,I believe initially for their own Motorsport programme .It will need to be a big operation,if my old Cayman was anything to go by....

 

[Winston]

5 minutes ago, DavidCM said:

As this thread is "running low on charge",what about synthetic fuel.Porsche is building a factory on Chile to manufacture this,I believe initially for their own Motorsport programme .It will need to be a big operation,if my old Cayman was anything to go by....

 

Ooh yes, I was flagging but you brought me back to life David

More choice and confusion to add to the pot.

can they make it cheap enough I presume is the major problem?

 

[DavidCM]

Initially, probably not,but economies of scale will kick in and bring prices down.After all, Porsche don,t seem to have put a foot wrong in the last 25 years. They will make it work.I believe that they are the most profitable car company in the world.

They are also part of VW so have relatives like Bentley and Lamborghini who would be very keen to keep some form of internal combustion engines... especially Lamborghini..can you imagine one of them sounding like a hoover..no,nor me.

 

 

[Winston]

2 hours ago, DavidCM said:

Initially, probably not,but economies of scale will kick in and bring prices down.After all, Porsche don,t seem to have put a foot wrong in the last 25 years. They will make it work.I believe that they are the most profitable car company in the world.

They are also part of VW so have relatives like Bentley and Lamborghini who would be very keen to keep some form of internal combustion engines... especially Lamborghini..can you imagine one of them sounding like a hoover..no,nor me.

 

 

I imagine Porsche owners will happily pay a premium to keep their 911s running, I had just a standard Carrera last year and I would have. But will it be cheap enough for everyone to put in their daily drivers?