Will Lexus reliability be devalued

[Winston]

Hi Everyone 

Just a though, I would like your views

Is the reliability of Lexus going to be less of a selling point with EV’s , as any manufacturer is going to have a much more reliable car.

Batteries and electric motors are much more reliable than an ICE vehicle and those are the parts most purchasers worry about going wrong. Even though the build quality is much better overall will this be enough to keep/tempt owners to Lexus in an EV world?

 

[flookyk]

1 hour ago, Winston said:

Hi Everyone 

Just a though, I would like your views

Is the reliability of Lexus going to be less of a selling point with EV’s , as any manufacturer is going to have a much more reliable car.

Batteries and electric motors are much more reliable than an ICE vehicle and those are the parts most purchasers worry about going wrong. Even though the build quality is much better overall will this be enough to keep/tempt owners to Lexus in an EV world?

 

It will still depend on the manufacturer.. just look at Tesla for example.. no where near as reliable as Lexus.

[DavidCM]

I think it is true that electric cars are (so far) more reliable than ICE cars and even the ones at a low price point will be reliable.

The main difference to me will be the build quality.I've never owned or driven a Tesla,but from what I have seen,read and heard,their build quality is pretty poor.As long as Lexus maintain build standards,then quality should prevail.

Good colour choice on your LC--same as my RC.

 

[Las Palmas]

No matter the rest of the standard of build will the quality of batteries as it is now not be something near the quality of the rest of the car.

In winter batteries are not holding charge well and with batteries as they are of the latest standard today will either be slow to charge or they will deteriorate when constantly being charged extremely fast.

Another thing is that with the way everything is to be done faster and more economically I am not sure that the renowned quality of the cars named Lexus will stay on top.

[PaulWhitt20]

I don't think build quality will be as important. The current price point for an electric car puts the cost into  premium segment money and the premium electric cars are out of my price range. Example I paid £30K for my IS, and the wife has an electric Corsa on order for £30k. The limited Lexus electric range is £50K plus and out of the price I am prepared to pay for a car.

Additionally with more lease and PCP deals, the car only has to last 3 years so build quality is not as important.

As long as they still do Red.

[rayaans]

I think reliability will play a part but then how much? Even when considering ICE vehicles, there are plenty of German cars on the used market which aren't massively reliable but they still get picked up and regularly so.

Build quality still plays a part although some people simply dont care. Look at all the Tesla's around as an example. If Jaguar or Lexus rebadged a Tesla Model 3 and sold it as their own, theyd get slated

[Malc]

54 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

I am not sure that the renowned quality of the cars named Lexus will stay on top.

looked at two brand spanking new "big" Lexus cars at a local shopping centre promo the other day at £52k and £62k respectively ......  the cheaper one was All Electric .........  enormously unimpressed with the interior quality vis a vis even my old lady at 27 years young and 239k miles 

I thought, wot a sad day .....  not looked at any other brand new cars ( or even used ) for sale for a very long time ..  perhaps they're all looking a tad " average " to me these days 

Malc

[Las Palmas]

2 minutes ago, Malc said:

looked at two brand spanking new "big" Lexus cars at a local shopping centre promo the other day at £52k and £62k respectively ......  the cheaper one was All Electric .........  enormously unimpressed with the interior quality vis a vis even my old lady at 27 years young and 239k miles 

I thought, wot a sad day .....  not looked at any other brand new cars ( or even used ) for sale for a very long time ..  perhaps they're all looking a tad " average " to me these days 

Malc

I believe the new Japan is South Korea.

Lexus is a renowned brand, but it really is a Toyota. Prius used to be the go to car for taxi people. Now they are mostly driving Hyundai here. The less rich taxi owners are doing Dacia.

[royoftherovers]

3 hours ago, Winston said:

Hi Everyone 

Just a though, I would like your views

Is the reliability of Lexus going to be less of a selling point with EV’s , as any manufacturer is going to have a much more reliable car.

Batteries and electric motors are much more reliable than an ICE vehicle and those are the parts most purchasers worry about going wrong. Even though the build quality is much better overall will this be enough to keep/tempt owners to Lexus in an EV world?

 

The key factors are cost and perceived value for money.

The "man on the Clapham Omnibus" is the one that knows all.

He will recognise that he doesn`t have and won`t have for the forseeable future, funds to buy any new car costing £30k or more, or move house, or have family holidays or enjoy the pleasure that increases in net disposible income brings.

Times for him and his family are hard and getting much harder. If he has a car,he will want to try to keep it and minimise expenditure on it. This will lead to the recognition that some cars cost a lot to keep and maintain whilst others principally from Japan and South Korea, cost far less. 

If you are a passenger on the Bus then retain or seek such a car. 

[wharfhouse]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

looked at two brand spanking new "big" Lexus cars at a local shopping centre promo the other day at £52k and £62k respectively ......  the cheaper one was All Electric .........  enormously unimpressed with the interior quality vis a vis even my old lady at 27 years young and 239k miles 

I thought, wot a sad day .....  not looked at any other brand new cars ( or even used ) for sale for a very long time ..  perhaps they're all looking a tad " average " to me these days 

Malc

Not sure how much the BEV uplift costs over traditional ICE/Hybrid is real or manufacturers finding a way to reset a price point and hence profitability. At the moment a 50% uplift for in essence a BEV version of what was previously ICE/Hybrid is something I'm not prepared to pay, especially when we are told there are significantly less components in the BEV so they should be cheaper to manufacture... Long may my IS 300h keep running until some sense returns to the nee car market! 

[talaipwros]

1 hour ago, wharfhouse said:

Not sure how much the BEV uplift costs over traditional ICE/Hybrid is real or manufacturers finding a way to reset a price point and hence profitability. At the moment a 50% uplift for in essence a BEV version of what was previously ICE/Hybrid is something I'm not prepared to pay, especially when we are told there are significantly less components in the BEV so they should be cheaper to manufacture... Long may my IS 300h keep running until some sense returns to the nee car market! 

Some brands have no uplift in price.

For instance BMW :

G82 M4 Competition Coupe S58 3.0

Engine performance 

375 kW (510 hp)

WLTP Consumption (combined) 

28.8 mpg

Drive Type 

Rear-wheel drive

Acceleration (0-62 mph) 

3.9 s

From £79,475

----

BMW i4 M50

From £65,795

Engine Type 

Electric

Engine performance 

400 kW (544 hp)

Drive Type 

All-wheel drive

Acceleration (0-62 mph) 

3.9 s

 

[Winston]

12 minutes ago, talaipwros said:

Some brands have no uplift in price.

For instance BMW :

G82 M4 Competition Coupe S58 3.0

Engine performance 

375 kW (510 hp)

WLTP Consumption (combined) 

28.8 mpg

 

Drive Type 

Rear-wheel drive

Acceleration (0-62 mph) 

3.9 s

From £79,475

----

BMW i4 M50

From £65,795

Engine Type 

Electric

Engine performance 

400 kW (544 hp)

Drive Type 

All-wheel drive

Acceleration (0-62 mph) 

3.9 s

 

I agree with the people who say it will be a much closer run race.

I am happy to pay extra from the quality products, but a lot of people when they see a pretty packaged Renault and they think well it looks nice and there is not much to go wrong or worry about Tyres , suspension joints, maybe wiring, Brakes could last 100k with regen braking.

And then you have the South Koreans making solid reliable products.

I think it’s going to be a much tougher market in 5 years time, and design , range and control of Battery tech and materials will be everything.

[talaipwros]

By the way, EV car manufacturers still require annual servicing to keep the warranty. 

At least Nissan does.

[wharfhouse]

20 minutes ago, talaipwros said:

Some brands have no uplift in price.

For instance BMW :

G82 M4 Competition Coupe S58 3.0

Engine performance 

375 kW (510 hp)

WLTP Consumption (combined) 

28.8 mpg

 

Drive Type 

Rear-wheel drive

Acceleration (0-62 mph) 

3.9 s

From £79,475

----

BMW i4 M50

From £65,795

Engine Type 

Electric

Engine performance 

400 kW (544 hp)

Drive Type 

All-wheel drive

Acceleration (0-62 mph) 

3.9 s

 

Fair enough when you are in that sort of price bracket - but when I compare what something like a ICE/Hybrid £35k car costs against the equivalent BEV I'm looking at something like a 50% uplift which takes it off the table for me 

[Winston]

3 minutes ago, talaipwros said:

By the way, EV car manufacturers still require annual servicing to keep the warranty. 

At least Nissan does.

Serving cost are very low for EV’s with little extra on them

Will Suppliers still be able to offer warranty with not much to earn on a service?

Will be interesting to see if they can keep the offer as it is expected by customers and will be seen as a negative if they drop it.

 It’s a bit like the clothing companies offering free returns by post . They can’t keep that up much longer, once one major supplier starts charging they probably all will.

 

[royoftherovers]

25 minutes ago, Winston said:

Serving cost are very low for EV’s with little extra on them

Will Suppliers still be able to offer warranty with not much to earn on a service?

Will be interesting to see if they can keep the offer as it is expected by customers and will be seen as a negative if they drop it.

 It’s a bit like the clothing companies offering free returns by post . They can’t keep that up much longer, once one major supplier starts charging they probably all will.

 

I think that Servicing costs will be around 80% or more of current ICE costs Winston.😢

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, talaipwros said:

Some brands have no uplift in price.

For instance BMW :

G82 M4 Competition Coupe S58 3.0

Engine performance 

375 kW (510 hp)

WLTP Consumption (combined) 

28.8 mpg

 

Drive Type 

Rear-wheel drive

Acceleration (0-62 mph) 

3.9 s

From £79,475

----

BMW i4 M50

From £65,795

Engine Type 

Electric

Engine performance 

400 kW (544 hp)

Drive Type 

All-wheel drive

Acceleration (0-62 mph) 

3.9 s

 

Not really fair though that one.

An I4 M50 despite running similar performance in a straight line doesn't drive anywhere near as well as an M4

Its really more of a faster M lite model like a faster version of an m440i

[Harrier Man]

I think reliability of the software will be a significant issue in people's judgement of what constitutes a quality vehicle. Overall, in my opinion, car manufacturers aren't doing well at the moment, although they are getting better. Judging by comments on the NX forum, Lexus isn't doing great when it comes to their Lexus Link App either. Many features are simply not working reliably or as advertised. There are so many issues that my perception of Lexus as a reliable brand has taken a real knock.

Fortunately the NX is capable of receiving over the air (OTA) but the software should work 'out-of-the-box' as well as the engine and mechanicals do. The Microsoft model of buggy software that requires frequent updates, is prone to virus and is abandoned after a few years haunts me when it comes my car.

[Las Palmas]

Lexus never was good with software.

When looking at the problems from VW first i models though it seems that Lexus software is fantastic.

The Lexus cars with stupid software were still driving perfectly well, whereas the VW did not drive at all, some of the owners had their cars in workshops to get software errors fixed longer time than they did spend on the road.

[royoftherovers]

5 minutes ago, Las Palmas said:

Lexus never was good with software.

When looking at the problems from VW first i models though it seems that Lexus software is fantastic.

The Lexus cars with stupid software were still driving perfectly well, whereas the VW did not drive at all, some of the owners had their cars in workshops to get software errors fixed longer time than they did spend on the road.

One of our members from Cheshire  gave his ID3 back to VW as it was so unreliable and had been issued with Software that had not been tested properly.

[Winston]

1 hour ago, royoftherovers said:

I think that Servicing costs will be around 80% or more of current ICE costs Winston.😢

I think it will be less than that, I own a couple of garages and Mot centres that do work for the leasing companies. They are not accepting the EV work as not enough profit in it and the leasing companies are desperate for garages to carry out the work as so many business user are going electric for tax purposes , but for the leasing companies, we have to collect and deliver the vehicle, so you collect and deliver back a car  that’s an hours driving, to do a service that is about 0.6 of an hour. They want you to work for £45-49 per hour then take a cut of full invoice on the back side of 5%. There are no cam belts to do, no engine oil, oil filters, air filter or spark plugs to make profit on.

brake pads and discs were good earners but unlikely to see and of those in the 3 years leasing deal. You will have a pollen filter replacement and wiper blades when they are due. So we do not want that work 1.6 hours for about £22 . Definitely not 80% (note our normal labour rate is £65)

obviously the main agent charge more but the leasing companies don’t use them unless they have to.

Not sure how garages are going to survive on EV work, labour rates will need to go up massively.

 

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, talaipwros said:

By the way, EV car manufacturers still require annual servicing to keep the warranty. 

At least Nissan does.

Most do, and pricing is high to keep their dealers in business. Tesla don’t require any servicing to maintain the warranty, just recommend brake servicing periodically. 

[royoftherovers]

19 minutes ago, Winston said:

I think it will be less than that, I own a couple of garages and Mot centres that do work for the leasing companies. They are not accepting the EV work as not enough profit in it and the leasing companies are desperate for garages to carry out the work as so many business user are going electric for tax purposes , but for the leasing companies, we have to collect and deliver the vehicle, so you collect and deliver back a car  that’s an hours driving, to do a service that is about 0.6 of an hour. They want you to work for £45-49 per hour then take a cut of full invoice on the back side of 5%. There are no cam belts to do, no engine oil, oil filters, air filter or spark plugs to make profit on.

Brake pads and discs were good earners but unlikely to see and of those in the 3 years leasing deal. You will have a pollen filter replacement and wiper blades when they are due. So we do not want that work 1.6 hours for about £22 . Definitely not 80% (note our normal labour rate is £65)

obviously the main agent charge more but the leasing companies don’t use them unless they have to.

Not sure how garages are going to survive on EV work, labour rates will need to go up massively.

 

Lots of valid points,but the proof of the pudding.........................

[Winston]

To Royof

one note to Roy

EVs do get through tyres a lot quicker than ICE vehicles, so if you factor that in and suspension wear for the extra weight that will increase overall running costs a bit (we don’t do tyres, so we don’t see that side of things)

 

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, Winston said:

To Royof

one note to Roy

EVs do get through tyres a lot quicker than ICE vehicles, so if you factor that in and suspension wear for the extra weight that will increase overall running costs a bit (we don’t do tyres, so we don’t see that side of things)

 

As I infer....time will tell.