Would IS200T make more sense for me than IS300H?

[boyo]

Currently I drive a 2007 Lexus IS250. On average I drive about 6000km or ~3700 miles per year (work commute). My theory is that since my yearly mileage is so low, it wouldn't make sense to buy a hybrid because as far as I know hybrids dont really like to sit still, they need to be driven more. 

I do like the twin exhaust tips on the IS200T giving it a more sporty look and a nice boost in performance compared to the slouch gas-guzzling IS250. Fuel economy on IS300H cant be beat though and lots more of them on sale but again I don't drive a lot so I assume it would be bad for the hybrid Battery.

 

[J Henderson]

Probably best to test-drive one.

On paper it seems a logical choice, but real-world MPG doesn't appear to be much of an improvement, if at all over the V6 it replaced.

The driving experience seems to come in for a fair amount of criticism too, due to lag/hesitation and fussy (8-speed) gearbox.

[hieronymous]

2 hours ago, boyo said:

Currently I drive a 2007 Lexus IS250. On average I drive about 6000km or ~3700 miles per year (work commute). My theory is that since my yearly mileage is so low, it wouldn't make sense to buy a hybrid because as far as I know hybrids dont really like to sit still, they need to be driven more. 

I do like the twin exhaust tips on the IS200T giving it a more sporty look and a nice boost in performance compared to the slouch gas-guzzling IS250. Fuel economy on IS300H cant be beat though and lots more of them on sale but again I don't drive a lot so I assume it would be bad for the hybrid battery.

 

It sounds like you mainly want lower fuel costs ahead of looks and performance.

Hybrids are perfectly happy sitting garaged like any car, they never have hybrid Battery problems until extremely high mileages, so I assume you mean the 12v Battery instead.

Like much on the internet,  there is a lot of nonsense floating around about hybrid 12v batteries. I bought a new IS300h F-Sport last year, following 2 Prius’s, also an EV with some free power over that time, so the hybrids have had plenty of garage days. The Prius’s never had a 12v Battery issue, ever. The F-Sport in our current cooler months has the 12v Battery voltage down to 12.4V after about 10 days garaged, so I might put a small maintainer on it, but it starts just fine at that level, so just a precaution..

Any time you use your car, the 12v Battery gets a topup - hybrids are no different. So daily use (read daily commute) will keep your 12v in good shape. For any car, it is about being driven, not more, but more often/regularly.

However, your 6000km/year commuting, for a 5 day week, is only about 24km/15ml a day return, 12km each way with a long break in between. Your car isn’t ever getting fully warmed up over such a short distance, so I’m not surprised you describe your IS250 as a gas-guzzler. A hybrid would improve that, but not to what they are fully capable of.

Your commute is short, so your annual fuel bill isn’t enormous. It’s debatable whether it’s worth changing at all. If it were me, I would be looking for a 2nd-hand EV at a good price; for short running (i.e. town use), EV’s can’t be beat for low running costs...

[agent_dess]

The MPG gains are massively better on the IS300h vs 250.

And i find myself filling up far less often too.  i do about 4500 miles per year.

I like both 250 and IS300h but often wondered the IS200t would be like.

I had no problems transition to the CVT transmission alot of people hate it but i see no issues.

Another advantage in the UK for the IS300h is the annual VED (road [money grabbing scheme] tax) cost which is only £20 a year but on the IS250 it had creeped toward £340 a year.  The IS200t is pretty high too i think its £280 a year.

Best is to try both IS300h and IS200t and see what suits you best 👍

 

[matt8]

My 2013 Is300h (F Sport) is just £10 VED.

Why the difference, I've heard some are £10 and some are £20.

1 hour ago, agent_dess said:

Another advantage in the UK for the IS300h is the annual VED (road [money grabbing scheme] tax) cost which is only £20 a year

 

[Bounce75]

41 minutes ago, matt8 said:

My 2013 Is300h (F Sport) is just £10 VED.

Why the difference, I've heard some are £10 and some are £20.

 

My 2020 IS300h Comfort pack is £155, I believe it changed around 2018/19.

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, matt8 said:

Why the difference, I've heard some are £10 and some are £20.

Depends on the specific age and wheel configuration which means you may go over the 110g/km threshold into the next bracket so up from £10 to £20.

30 minutes ago, Bounce75 said:

My 2020 IS300h Comfort pack is £155, I believe it changed around 2018/19.

April 2017 onwards is when yearly vehicle tax (except the first year) is essentially a flat fee rather than being based on CO2 emissions. It is £155 for hybrids and £165 for standard petrol or diesels.

[Mr Vlad]

Gas guzzling is250? Blimey you must be driving that car hard 100% of the time. My is250 until end of April only travelled 3 miles each way to work and it averaged around 28mpg. To me that's excellent for what the car is. Now I travel 7 miles each way, 5 of which on motorway and I'm averaging 32mpg. The is200T isn't that good a car unfortunately. I was considering one before I got the is300h a few years back as it had the same power as the Ford Mondeo titanium x sport 2.0 ecoboost I had. But the mondeo much more superior car. Much better pull from the engine and much better fuel economy. Linas on here had the RC200t and basically he kind of hated it if I remember right. 

I've had the is300h and have the is250. Which is better? To me they're much the same superb car. I never got below 50mpg in the 300h and my 250 just sounds glorious. Would I have another 300h? Not whilst I have the 250. Get your 250 looked at as I suspect it needs a service and some TLC.

[Spock66]

If you do low annual mileage fuel cost is not your biggest expense in running a car, look at the total cost of ownership: Purchase Cost / Depreciation, Finance, Road Tax, Insurance, Tyres, Maintenance etc.

[Mincey]

1 hour ago, Mr Vlad said:

Linas on here had the RC200t and basically he kind of hated it if I remember right. 

Is there a Lexus which he actually likes?

[Mr Vlad]

You'll ask to ask him yourself. 

[agent_dess]

On 6/18/2022 at 11:54 AM, matt8 said:

My 2013 Is300h (F Sport) is just £10 VED.

Why the difference, I've heard some are £10 and some are £20.

 

Mines was £10 in January this year but its gone up to £20 going forward and my emission is only 107 g/km

[wharfhouse]

59 minutes ago, agent_dess said:

Mines was £10 in January this year but its gone up to £20 going forward and my emission is only 107 g/km

As the IS 300h is a hybrid there is special clause (alterative fuelled vehicles, which includes hybrid) and they receive a £10 deduction on the standard rates in the table, so it takes the £20 back to £10.

[GMB]

I must be one of the few people that actually like the 200t.  It reminds me of my old 1981 Audi 200t but a lot less brutal and less likely to chuck you down the road and kill you.

It looks nice with the twin exhausts -but doesn't make much noise. This is a good or bad thing depending if you like sporty noises or quiet refinement.

It can go quite quick depending what mood the car is in. It has a mind of its own believe me. ( Probably two minds actually, one in the engine and one in the gearbox, and I don't think they like each other very much )

It is not economical to run but it does have character ( another word for quirky ).

It is at its best on motorways and faster roads, both for economy and performance.

It is nice to drive and very comfortable - suspension, handling etc.

Big plus - It has no CVT but has the same 8 speed auto as on the IsF. ( Mind you, sometimes it can't make its mind up what gear it prefers and likes to sit in 4th or 5th if you have been driving briskly. )

There aren't many about, especially "F-sports" because they were a bit pricey new.

Ideally the 350 would be the one but Lexus did not think we deserved them.

Bad points - Er .... I like it's unusualness so I can't think of any.

 

 

[GMB]

1 minute ago, GMB said:

I must be one of the few people that actually like the 200t.  It reminds me of my old 1981 Audi 200t but a lot less brutal and less likely to chuck you down the road and kill you.

It looks nice with the twin exhausts -but doesn't make much noise. This is a good or bad thing depending if you like sporty noises or quiet refinement.

It can go quite quick depending what mood the car is in. It has a mind of its own believe me. ( Probably two minds actually, one in the engine and one in the gearbox, and I don't think they like each other very much )

It is not economical to run but it does have character ( another word for quirky ).

It is at its best on motorways and faster roads, both for economy and performance.

It is nice to drive and very comfortable - suspension, handling etc.

Big plus - It has no CVT but has the same 8 speed auto as on the IsF. ( Mind you, sometimes it can't make its mind up what gear it prefers and likes to sit in 4th or 5th if you have been driving briskly. )

There aren't many about, especially "F-sports" because they were a bit pricey new.

Ideally the 350 would be the one but Lexus did not think we deserved them.

Bad points - Er .... I like it's unusualness so I can't think of any.

 

 

BTW talking about having two brains in the car, the gearbox brain is definitely the BOSS.

[Las Palmas]

On 6/18/2022 at 12:39 PM, Bounce75 said:

My 2020 IS300h Comfort pack is £155, I believe it changed around 2018/19.

Here it changed 2016/17.

Registered before 2017 (even if a 2017 model) = no road tax.

The one we have seems to be some kind of hybrid between 2016 and 17 as Lexus here tells us it is a 2016 Luxury with a lot of extras and our insurance company tells us it is a 2017 F-Sport or maybe the models here in Spain are different to the ones you have in UK.

Both Lexus and insurance companies have access to more data than we poor car owners have.

About the difference between a 200T (meaning turbo?) and a 250: a larger cylinder volume can guzzle more fuel than a smaller. The turbo use the exhaust to press more fuel into the system, so if the turbo has smaller cylinder volume it will be more economic as long as turbo is not working on high revolutions (in theory). In praxis: it all depend on so many different things that you will only find out after using both.

Another thing is that hybrid Battery is not helping much if you drive with heavy foot. Actually if you drive fast and always fast the weight of the hybrid Battery will just need more fuel than the same car without that Battery.

[Linas.P]

On 6/17/2022 at 8:46 PM, boyo said:

I do like the twin exhaust tips on the IS200T giving it a more sporty look and a nice boost in performance compared to the slouch gas-guzzling IS250.

If you think IS250 is "gas-guzzling" then you up for surprise with IS200t. It really does not matter what my or yours IS250 consumed, it does not matter what my RC200t consumed or your potential IS200t will consume. The only thing that matter is that IS200t is SIGNIFICANTLY worse on fuel economy - my all time average on IS250 was something ~28MPG, best at times were as high as 48MPG, worst was toward the end of ownership and I suspect o2 sensor was lazy and I would get like 22MPG in city, in winter, but generally 26MPG still very achievable. RC200t maybe slightly heavier than IS200t, but very similar overall - best was 32MPG, worst was 14MPG, over 2.5 years of ownership average was 22MPG... in short it is horrible for fuel economy and this was like for like driving, doing exactly the same driving as before + to be honest I did more long journeys in RC200t so it should have been even better. I am not joking, but in my experience LC500 and RC-F are better for for daily driving gets better fuel economy than 200t, sure put them on the track and they will use more, but just commuting and driving around town 5L V* is better than that 2L turbo. If you getting different figures - fine, just use your figures apply same percentage and you get the idea.

In short between IS250 and IS200t, IS250 is objectively better in any way, it is more fuel efficient, it is smoother, it is more lineal in acceleration, it sounds better and it is probably more reliable long term or at less has less to go wrong with it. Yes IS200t faster to 60, but that does not tell you whole story, because IS250 will be ahead most of the way, I would say at 40MPH IS250 would still be ahead, IS200t would overtake it at 50MPH. Same for kickdown - IS250 pulls right away after short pause and because it has 6 gears it is manageable manually, IS200t has more power, but it fiddles so long with the gears you may have accident before it starts going, likewise I simply don't have mental capacity to deal with 8 gears manually, so you can't even put it in right gear beforehand... and they are so short (engine power band so narrow) that you would have to change twice before finishing to overtake. 

3 hours ago, GMB said:

It can go quite quick depending what mood the car is in. It has a mind of its own believe me. ( Probably two minds actually, one in the engine and one in the gearbox, and I don't think they like each other very much )

It is not economical to run but it does have character ( another word for quirky ).

It is at its best on motorways and faster roads, both for economy and performance.

It is nice to drive and very comfortable - suspension, handling etc.

Big plus - It has no CVT but has the same 8 speed auto as on the IsF. ( Mind you, sometimes it can't make its mind up what gear it prefers and likes to sit in 4th or 5th if you have been driving briskly. )

Ideally the 350 would be the one but Lexus did not think we deserved them.

Agree with a lot - engine and gearbox very poorly refined, car never feels in right gear, accelerator is pretty much on or off. It sort of works from 50MPH + and then it pulls to 120MPH in no time, but that is not very usable in UK and license-losing. I didn't find fuel economy particularly good anywhere. on motorway sticking strictly to 70MPH I was getting 36MPG, but driving with the flow which is a bit faster it was just barely over 30MPG.

Note - the gearbox is similar to IS-F, but not the same, does not have ATF cooler, not programmed to react as fast. I do believe it is good gearbox, but it just does not suit the engine - in IS-F car has usable revs anywhere from ~2500RPM all the way to 6800RPM, meaning each gear can be pushed all the way, with 200t the usable RPMs are ~2000-4500 and it needs to change, meaning that it is continuously hunting for gears all the way to maybe 5th gear.

RC350 would be my dream right now... but Lexus said "nobody would buy one in UK".

[Linas.P]

On 6/18/2022 at 2:58 PM, Mincey said:

Is there a Lexus which he actually likes?

LFA one of the best cars ever - sadly affordability is out of this world. LC500 is one of the best cars in it's class and it literally has no downsides (maybe perhaps boot space), very special car for very special people, but kind of requires to own another car for practicality - like RX or NX. RC-F is great. GS mk4 is excellent car all around, particularly 450h. RX and NX are great SUVs and very competitive in the class, but I just generally don't like SUVs. I am sure Lexus RC/IS350 are good, but we don't have them in UK. I very much liked IS250 mk2, because it was very competitive and great value for it's day, sadly Lexus didn't repeat it with mk3... in fact I liked them as much that I now own 4th one myself. 

So to say I don't like any Lexus is just not right - yes I hate ES is .... not particularly because it is bad car, but because it is failed in every conceivable way as GS replacement, as well is not competitive in it's own class going after 5-Series and E-Class which is non-starter. 300h as an engine is just boring and in my option underpowered, it is not like I don't like Lexus, I don't like the engine, same as I don't like IS220/200d, but like IS250. IS220d is good car with bad engine, same for IS300h and same for IS200t. They are just not good engines from both objective point of view and from my personal subjectively needs as a driver. So don't confuse me not liking certain aspects of the cars (some very major like engines), and not liking the brand overall. Yes sure - Lexus makes it hard to like them in UK by giving literally no choice for me or generally people who like to drive, no 350, no IS mk4, no RC nor GS globally... so really the only car remaining in their line-up currently is LC500, which is tall order for most as it is flagship... and considering younger myself I would have no way into Lexus ownership at all nowadays. 

[Mr Vlad]

Well put Linas but I have to disagree with you about the is300h. That 2.5 4 pot is a very very good engine. I drove mine in all conditions and speeds. Economy was excellent, never got less than 50mpg. With a full traction Battery it flew off the line. Quicker than my is250. Yes it lost Battery quite quickly but it charged up surprisingly quickly too. Would I ho back to one? Not whilst I have my is250. 

[GMB]

3 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Well put Linas but I have to disagree with you about the is300h. That 2.5 4 pot is a very very good engine. I drove mine in all conditions and speeds. Economy was excellent, never got less than 50mpg. With a full traction battery it flew off the line. Quicker than my is250. Yes it lost battery quite quickly but it charged up surprisingly quickly too. Would I ho back to one? Not whilst I have my is250. 

If Lexus can't provide you with a suitable car then I think the nearest match would be Jaguar, with lots of models and engines. All they need is a picnic table so that you will be comfortable sitting at the side of the road waiting for the AA or RAC.