Considering purchase of a 220d/Advice required

[stocknapping]

Thanks for the responses. I am considering an IS200. Can anyone recommend a pre-purchase inspection for this car?

AA/RAC don't seem to cover.

[Texas]

If you mean an IS200 then it is here ( in the IS200 section) 

 

But if you mean an IS200D ( DERV) then I don’t think there is a current check list around here.

 

[Bluemarlin]

I used Click Mechanic for my last inspection and they seemed pretty thorough.

[talaipwros]

On 5/25/2022 at 8:19 PM, pope111 said:

Avoid petrol version after 100k miles, these burn catastrophic amounts of oli. 1 liter per 1000km 😆 😆

 

😮

are you sure?

[Texas]

No….like my old (and very wise mum said ) don’t believe everything you read! And do your homework 😂

[GMG]

...so despite the advice provided by some seasoned forum members & presumably additional interweb info' reviewed you are still considering the worst Lexus in the history of Lexus 's / Lexi?!

...bon courage my friend...I reckon you'll need it!

[Texas]

And deep pockets or don’t mind the thought of running with one kidney😂

https://www.england.nhs.uk/contact-us/privacy-notice/how-we-use-your-information/our-services/payment-for-living-kidney-donation/

[Linas.P]

On 6/8/2022 at 7:04 PM, Shahpor said:

Given Linas and your contributions to this forum, I know which one of you I would ignore...

When it comes from person who himself owned and maintained IS220d for a long time that adds a lot of credit. Thanks

[Las Palmas]

Linas is right: Diesel engines are dirty.

Had to drive in low gear about 10km with revolution needle close to where it should not go to get our Golf 2.0tdi DSG (100K km) clean enough to get the stamp telling we could drive one more year.

That is the way to clean the exhaust so all the black smoke get out and the diesel car will pass the test.

[stocknapping]

To answer the above, no. I am looking at an IS 200 as in petrol.

[Linas.P]

On 6/30/2022 at 3:51 AM, stocknapping said:

To answer the above, no. I am looking at an IS 200 as in petrol.

Just few considerations here and trying to understand better what you looking for as well. Does the gearbox plays part of the choice for you or is it road tax, or is it fuel consumption? If Manual is not the hard requirement then Automatic IS250 is slightly more fuel efficient than mk1 IS200 and slightly faster than mk1 IS300. The only issue is that if you want Manual, then IS250 has very high road tax, however if you ok with automatic, then IS250 is really best choice between mk1 200/300 and mk2 220d. 

Obviously, if overall cost of the car is the key criteria then IS200 will be by far the cheapest and very solid car overall. Yes I know that it is possible to buy IS220d for similar price as mk1 IS200, but that is because all those cars below £2000 most likely have engine issues. You can get IS220/200d without engine issue if you look for lower miles and later models (particularly 200d), but then expect to pay in excess of £5000 and it is by no way guarantee it won't develop serious engine issue, only that it does not already have one.

[H3XME]

@stocknapping

Just to add my 2 pence in here.. 

I can't comment on the 200d/220d as I never owned one. I never even considered it, but the amount of issues (not all major) that have been documented, it's honestly silly to go for one today. Especially now that the cars are older with high mileage, diesel being more expensive and the knowledge on this forum. Speaking from IS250 manual point of view.. I'm on over 172,000 miles now, arguably the car has seen the rev limiter more than any other car on this forum. I change the oil every 6,000 miles and it's not burning any. In the past 2,5 years and 44,000 miles of ownership, other than servicing (brakes, oil, filters) I only had to change the original clutch (although this is still a "consumable") on 140k, Battery on 145k and that's it. Like others have said. The tax is high on the manual, yes.. unless you get '55 plate IS250 manual, Road Tax is around £300 then. MPGs aren't bad. Around town you get high 20s, low 30s, depending on how hard you're trying. On the motorway, at legal speed on cruise control it's returning around 44mpg. Last week I drove to Goodwood, then Bognor Regis and back to Birmingham and got home with average of 42mpg. That's not bad at all for a petrol V6. 

IS200s, they start to rust now, they get abused as they're in the same category as E36/E46 cars. Cheap RWD toys. Interior is way inferior, but that makes sense, it's an older gen IS. They're similar, if not worse on fuel than the IS250. It's a lazy 2L I6 that doesn't make a lot of power. 

Honestly, if you want a diesel, go for VAG or BMW. Lexus diesel is far from even just "alright" and the few quid you spend on fuel won't cover the bill from your local garage WHEN something goes wrong. 

[eleveneleven]

I would avoid the 220d. My dad had one for a year I used to drive it often. His didn't have any engine issues luckily but like others have said, clunky gearbox, turbo lag that makes the car dangerous at roundabout and junctions, an absolute pointless 6th gear that'll only work at 80+mph, and terrible fuel economy to top it off. Made an absolute racket at idle and the gearstick would shake like crazy. 

Only plus point is, it's very refined at cruise speeds (for a diesel). 

My dads was a few years old at the time, hate to think what they'd sound/drive like now with 100k plus miles. 

If you're looking for a solid Diesel car do yourself a favour and get a gen 8 Honda Accord 2.2i-dtec (EX) instead 

[Shahpor]

Whilst I agree in general regarding the IS220d, there are always exceptions.  For example, my old IS220d appears to still be going well:

 

Wonder if it will break the 200k mark and whether it is one of the highest mileage 220's around?

[Linas.P]

4 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Whilst I agree in general regarding the IS220d, there are always exceptions.  For example, my old IS220d appears to still be going well:

 

Wonder if it will break the 200k mark and whether it is one of the highest mileage 220's around?

I think there are few things at play. First - IS220d (as most diesels) don't have issue with high mileage, quite opposite they have issue with short journeys. Second - IS220d wasn't really that bad car, just maintenance intensive, so well maintained IS220ds with known how and preventative maintenance and driven primarily on longer journeys can go a long way. In short both IS250 and IS220d can go a long way, just on later that is conditional on good maintenance and care, whereas IS250 is more or less maintenance free. That said - many people don't maintain their cars very well and this is especially true for the cars which fall under certain value... say £2000. It is much harder to justify £1000 service routine every year for the car which is only worth £2000, so automatically many many IS220d fallen quickly as victims of neglect after reaching certain point and now are very troubling money pits. 

As for your car I know it benefited from both longer journeys (if I am remembering right it was 120 miles a day?) and knowledgeable owner who did right maintenance at the right time before issues had any consequences. I once said that I perhaps would be able to live with IS220d because I kind of know what to look after and when, sadly that most likely not going to happen as there are many issues at play - for one it does not have auto and manual is not the best, the trend for diesel isn't right and all the cheap ones nowadays are too far gone to buy... and finally although theoretically I could survive it I just don't have desire to torture myself just to prove the point 🙂 

[ahmed-abrar]

DON'T DOIT!!

[Thelongterm]

Avoid what this chap did 

 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Thelongterm said:

Avoid what this chap did 

 

Yeah, seen this one - generally, his content is good, but this time he got himself a real lemon. Funny enough he reckons he can still make profit on it by selling it for £3000. One would think car dealer should know better! But maybe he does, maybe he can found somebody clueless and flog the dead horse for them to worry about.

But I would not call it sustainable business when it relies on finding most clueless buyer in the world to be able to sell the car. Obviously he fixed the immediate issue with it, but that is just a start, next week there will be something else, and something else after that. 

I reckon it would be good business and marketing decision for Lexus just to buy back any remaining IS220d/200d below £2000 and just scrap them, because it really hurts the opinion about their brand. Imagine the horror when used car dealers (who are more often than not are quite dodgy) find unsuspecting customer and says - "how about Lexus, they are RELIABLE and here we have example of WELL looked after IS220d!"

[H3XME]

11 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Yeah, seen this one - generally, his content is good, but this time he got himself a real lemon. Funny enough he reckons he can still make profit on it by selling it for £3000. One would think car dealer should know better! But maybe he does, maybe he can found somebody clueless and flog the dead horse for them to worry about.

But I would not call it sustainable business when it relies on finding most clueless buyer in the world to be able to sell the car. Obviously he fixed the immediate issue with it, but that is just a start, next week there will be something else, and something else after that. 

I reckon it would be good business and marketing decision for Lexus just to buy back any remaining IS220d/200d below £2000 and just scrap them, because it really hurts the opinion about their brand. Imagine the horror when used car dealers (who are more often than not are quite dodgy) find unsuspecting customer and says - "how about Lexus, they are RELIABLE and here we have example of WELL looked after IS220d!"

Boggles my mind that people 90% of the time go shopping for a car without having a clue about it. It's a big purchase and you need to make sure you get from point A to point B without any issues along the way. Regardless of how long you're planning on keeping the car. Sadly, like you say a lot of dealers are dodgy, even main dealerships are crooked. I wouldn't trust a word they say without any evidence of what they say. They only want to make a sale, rarely care about anything else. If I come across a car I like the look of, I do my research to see what the common issues are, if the engines are any good and what to look out for on the said car when buying it so I can avoid relying on what the sales man says because he will tell you only what you wanna hear. 

Warning, bit of a rant.

My girlfriend was looking to get a new car after only ever driving VW Polo for years. It was her first car, and every 2-3 years she'd get a brand new Polo from the dealership. I showed her over a dozen good cars she might be interested in (likes the look of basically) and she picked one - 2019 Honda Civic. Now, I picked the engine as she would've gone for the crappy turbo 3 cylinder 1.0l petrol just because it's meant to be good on fuel... I chose the better version - 4 cylinder, 1.5L turbo 200hp petrol otherwise known as the Civic 'Sport' version (twin centre exit exhausts and other bits). It has pretty much identical fuel consumption as the 1.0l, so it's silly having an unbalanced vibrator of an engine under the bonnet when you can have the smooth 4 cylinder (test driven both at local dealership, the 3 cylinder was truly awful).

When searching for the right car, there was only 2 cars we considered. 2018 Civic Sport from Arnold Clark and 2019 Civic Sport Plus from a Honda dealership down in Guildford. Both exact same price, but the Sport+ in Guildford was newer but also had 10,000 miles more on the clock. The Sport+ was the winner (but it's good to have Plan B) as it's the top of the range spec with panoramic sunroof, heated seats, adaptive damping, keyless entry & push to start.. and also very rare. At the time, there was only one other Sport+ in the same colour on AutoTrader, but it was CVT.  Phoned the dealer who was down in Guildford (2.5h journey one way for us) and asked about the car etc. He said the car is spotless, it's in a really amazing condition etc. and that he will send me a walk around video of the vehicle. After watching their horrible quality video (in 2022!) I still managed to spot a few dents on the car just because they way light was reflecting off the paint.. Nothing major, it had 3 dents in total, little shopping trolley or door dents. I called him out on it and he says "oh yes, I was going to call the dent repair man anyway and get it fixed before you came to see the car" - Mind you, this was 2 days before we ended up going down there and see/take the car (we needed to act quickly because this was Tuesday, we were going away for the weekend and they wouldn't hold the car until next week). Funny thing is that I had to specifically tell him where the dents were. If I have to tell him where the dents were, it meant he had no idea, which meant he wasn't going to call the dent repair man if I didn't say anything. I know i'm going on about something minor, but it's the principle of it. It pis*es me off when dealers say it's "showroom condition" and then they try to sell the car with marks like that. And if I didn't notice them, they would still be on the car now.. Also they wouldn't price match part ex valuation to Arnold Clark who was offering £17,2k for her Polo. These guys said they wouldn't go above £16.5k because they asked VW garages around what the part ex value of it would be and basically didn't believe me that AC offered 17.2k They asked to see the proof of that offer lol. Anyway, I did prove them wrong, but they still wouldn't budge. I ended up talking them down on the price of the Civic by £500.. so in the end we paid £200 more than what would've paid at AC, but we got a much better, rarer spec of the Civic that will hold its value slightly better than a regular spec Civic. Got 2 years free servicing & 1 year warranty to offset the £200 difference, so all in all it was a happy ending but a fairly stressful process dealing with them. 

 

[Linas.P]

6 minutes ago, H3XME said:

Boggles my mind that people 90% of the time go shopping for a car without having a clue about it. It's a big purchase and you need to make sure you get from point A to point B without any issues along the way. Regardless of how long you're planning on keeping the car. Sadly, like you say a lot of dealers are dodgy, even main dealerships are crooked. I wouldn't trust a word they say without any evidence of what they say. They only want to make a sale, rarely care about anything else. If I come across a car I like the look of, I do my research to see what the common issues are, if the engines are any good and what to look out for on the said car when buying it so I can avoid relying on what the sales man says because he will tell you only what you wanna hear. 

Warning, bit of a rant.

My girlfriend was looking to get a new car after only ever driving VW Polo for years. It was her first car, and every 2-3 years she'd get a brand new Polo from the dealership. I showed her over a dozen good cars she might be interested in (likes the look of basically) and she picked one - 2019 Honda Civic. Now, I picked the engine as she would've gone for the crappy turbo 3 cylinder 1.0l petrol just because it's meant to be good on fuel... I chose the better version - 4 cylinder, 1.5L turbo 200hp petrol otherwise known as the Civic 'Sport' version (twin centre exit exhausts and other bits). It has pretty much identical fuel consumption as the 1.0l, so it's silly having an unbalanced vibrator of an engine under the bonnet when you can have the smooth 4 cylinder (test driven both at local dealership, the 3 cylinder was truly awful).

When searching for the right car, there was only 2 cars we considered. 2018 Civic Sport from Arnold Clark and 2019 Civic Sport Plus from a Honda dealership down in Guildford. Both exact same price, but the Sport+ in Guildford was newer but also had 10,000 miles more on the clock. The Sport+ was the winner (but it's good to have Plan B) as it's the top of the range spec with panoramic sunroof, heated seats, adaptive damping, keyless entry & push to start.. and also very rare. At the time, there was only one other Sport+ in the same colour on AutoTrader, but it was CVT.  Phoned the dealer who was down in Guildford (2.5h journey one way for us) and asked about the car etc. He said the car is spotless, it's in a really amazing condition etc. and that he will send me a walk around video of the vehicle. After watching their horrible quality video (in 2022!) I still managed to spot a few dents on the car just because they way light was reflecting off the paint.. Nothing major, it had 3 dents in total, little shopping trolley or door dents. I called him out on it and he says "oh yes, I was going to call the dent repair man anyway and get it fixed before you came to see the car" - Mind you, this was 2 days before we ended up going down there and see/take the car (we needed to act quickly because this was Tuesday, we were going away for the weekend and they wouldn't hold the car until next week). Funny thing is that I had to specifically tell him where the dents were. If I have to tell him where the dents were, it meant he had no idea, which meant he wasn't going to call the dent repair man if I didn't say anything. I know i'm going on about something minor, but it's the principle of it. It pis*es me off when dealers say it's "showroom condition" and then they try to sell the car with marks like that. And if I didn't notice them, they would still be on the car now.. Also they wouldn't price match part ex valuation to Arnold Clark who was offering £17,2k for her Polo. These guys said they wouldn't go above £16.5k because they asked VW garages around what the part ex value of it would be and basically didn't believe me that AC offered 17.2k They asked to see the proof of that offer lol. Anyway, I did prove them wrong, but they still wouldn't budge. I ended up talking them down on the price of the Civic by £500.. so in the end we paid £200 more than what would've paid at AC, but we got a much better, rarer spec of the Civic that will hold its value slightly better than a regular spec Civic. Got 2 years free servicing & 1 year warranty to offset the £200 difference, so all in all it was a happy ending but a fairly stressful process dealing with them. 

 

That was my exact comment on the video. "I doubt there is any profit in the car, unless you find somebody completely clueless who doesn't know anything and does not bother to do any research on the car they are purchasing.".

Sadly the latter is true - a lot of people, I would probably go as far as saying "majority", does NOT do any damn research when purchasing a car, which is the second biggest purchase in terms of value after the house. And likewise it always boggle my mind too... How people just go to spend thousands of £ without doing any research. Should we be surprised that dodgy used car dealers can get away with almost anything?

[H3XME]

11 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

How people just go to spend thousands of £ without doing any research. Should we be surprised that dodgy used car dealers can get away with almost anything?

People trust the dealer to be 100% honest and because they do, the dealer knows that he can take advantage of them.. And to be honest, 90% of the time, the people selling those cars have no fkin clue either. (Unless you go to a dodgy looking backyard dealer who's waiting for a clueless victim to stroll in so he can sell them a lemon). Whenever I go see a car at a garage, used or new, I know more about it than the salesman which is worrying. Used car dealerships I get, there's too many cars to keep on top of, but if you walk in to a Toyota dealership looking at a GT86 and you know more than the salesman who only ever sells 5 different cars, it's a bit sad. Makes you not wanna buy the car from a person like this because they don't deserve the commission lol. Luckily for them, there isn't many people like me out there.

[ahmed-abrar]

the best way to stress that fact the 220d is a dud is for a dealer to also feel he has been turned over, so to speak!

[Linas.P]

3 hours ago, H3XME said:

but if you walk in to a Toyota dealership looking at a GT86 and you know more than the salesman who only ever sells 5 different cars, it's a bit sad. 

Absolutely and I have experienced that with Lexus when enquiring about various cars, including LC500 and RC-F, it is absolutely unacceptable that I as a buyer know more than salesman selling flagship model. Now ok - to be fair I know way too much about Lexus than it is healthy, but when I purchased RC200t and when I test drove LC500 in the conversation it was clear salesman didn't know even basics. Like they were not been able to tell the whenever car has ML or not, what options car had, kept saying that wheels are 18" on RC, when they were 19" etc. I think on LC500 he kept saying it is "4L V8 car with 8 speed dual clutch box", he did not know trims of LC500 i.e. Standard, Sport and Sport+... really?! I didn't even expect he knew about rear wheel steering and LSD. I said something along the lines "I wish one could order Sport+ with glass roof" and he said - yes that is possible - NO it is NOT!

And, importantly, Lexus are already one of the better ones at that. Other dealers are way worse. What it seems to me is that Lexus in UK only bothers of selling SUVs and hybrids, so on rare occasion when somebody enquires about non-hybrid coupe they are just clueless. 

[H3XME]

59 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Absolutely and I have experienced that with Lexus when enquiring about various cars, including LC500 and RC-F, it is absolutely unacceptable that I as a buyer know more than salesman selling flagship model. Now ok - to be fair I know way too much about Lexus than it is healthy, but when I purchased RC200t and when I test drove LC500 in the conversation it was clear salesman didn't know even basics. Like they were not been able to tell the whenever car has ML or not, what options car had, kept saying that wheels are 18" on RC, when they were 19" etc. I think on LC500 he kept saying it is "4L V8 car with 8 speed dual clutch box", he did not know trims of LC500 i.e. Standard, Sport and Sport+... really?! I didn't even expect he knew about rear wheel steering and LSD. I said something along the lines "I wish one could order Sport+ with glass roof" and he said - yes that is possible - NO it is NOT!

And, importantly, Lexus are already one of the better ones at that. Other dealers are way worse. What it seems to me is that Lexus in UK only bothers of selling SUVs and hybrids, so on rare occasion when somebody enquires about non-hybrid coupe they are just clueless. 

Lexus don't exactly offer that many trim levels and options when it comes to the few cars they sell..it's not exactly impossible to do a little homework and learn about different trims and options on the cars you're selling. Does my head in. It's what happens when you have people who have 0 interest in cars, selling cars.. Just purely bad at their jobs. 

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, H3XME said:

It's what happens when you have people who have 0 interest in cars, selling cars.. 

That was my impression - they were hired for being good at sales, but complete do not care about the cars overall, nevermind particularly the ones they are selling. This is in fact in my opinion Lexus fault, they should ensure people on the floor have sufficient training and are briefed about each model they sell. As you said - Lexus does not have that many cars on sale, not many options and just few trims, so I just can't see how that could be an issue to learn. And I am not even saying people have to memorise everything. They can have a tablet or sales brochure in hand with key information and just confirm it when asked. But that just not happening!