So how’s your Faraday Pouch?

[Rabbers]

43 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

As Bob Paisley once said of Bill Shankly ?

And Dante of Virgil, I believe.

[Phil xxkr]

46 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

As Bob Paisley once said of Bill Shankly ?

Actually John it is Greek in origin 😅,  derived from Greek mythology, where the blind giant Orion carried his servant Cedalion on his shoulders. It is a western meta- phor first used in the 12 th century by Bernard of Chartres and later used by Issac Newton and then on our £2 pound coin. 

[royoftherovers]

1 minute ago, Phil xxkr said:

Actually John it is Greek in origin 😅,  derived from Greek mythology, where the blind giant Orion carried his servant Cedalion on his shoulders. It is a western meta- phor first used in the 12 th century by Bernard of Chartres and later used by Issac Newton and then on our £2 pound coin. 

Thanks Phil.

I dove past the Cathedral at Chartres last week en-route to Normandie.

I do wonder if we ever passed each other at Senate House in a Redbrick ?

[D Johnson]

On 5/31/2022 at 11:02 AM, LenT said:

 

If only!

I remember having to stand in front of the car, sticking a rod in to it and cranking it up - hoping you’d pulled out the choke far enough.  What we would have given just to turn a switch!

In most cases, anything that makes driving easier is fine by me.  That’s why we have autos.  And if you can’t reverse into a parking space, there are cars that will do it for you. 

So I have no problem with the concept of a smart key.  Indeed, eliminate the human parasites who steal what others have earned, and there’d be no need for a security system.

So it irks me that having acquired - and paid for - the benefit of a Smart Key, I now have to disable it.  The whole point of that technological development is so that I don’t have to press more buttons!

Which I suspect may be the reason why Lexus doesn’t mention  that turning it off makes your Lexus more secure.  
So for the present I shall persevere with the pouch, which definitely works - and has the added benefits of protecting the key and concealing the fact that it belongs to a Lexus.

If that proves too onerous, then I shall have to consider the retrograde step of pushing additional buttons!

Really tempted to go full-on Four Yorkshiremen at this point but too tired to do it justice so I’ll just say you bring back not very fond memories of always having to park on a hill and mouthfuls of petrol from when we were so poor we had to scrounge half a gallon off a friend via a syphon tube!    

[wharfhouse]

On 5/31/2022 at 10:40 PM, LenT said:

I’m obliged to you Colin.  This is not a technology I knew anything about, but as you say, it’s been around for decades.

Having had a chance to do some reading about it, I can see that your assessment of the manufacturer’s attitude looks pretty accurate.  With a technological solution to relay thefts that they’ve ignored for decades, it’s not surprising that Lexus doesn’t wasn’t to highlight their part in facilitating this form of car theft!

BMWs and Merc seemed to be the target in this latest spate of thefts of keyless entry cars in Berkshire: https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/five-cars-stolen-wokingham-crowthorne-24145009

[royoftherovers]

26 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

BMWs and Merc seemed to be the target in this latest spate of thefts of keyless entry cars in Berkshire: https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/five-cars-stolen-wokingham-crowthorne-24145009

Phil, ALL high value and so called Premium vehicles are particularly subject to theft.

The failure of manufacturers to address the matter is also evidenced by their failure to incorporate a warning light to indicate just when a Diesel engine is regenerating in order to clean the DPF.

When I was in my teens I remember Ralph Nader taking on the American Auto Industry with his book "Unsafe at any speed"  and winning.

Boy, we could do with a like minded person today. 

[LenT]

44 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

BMWs and Merc seemed to be the target in this latest spate of thefts of keyless entry cars in Berkshire: https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/five-cars-stolen-wokingham-crowthorne-24145009

What puzzles me, Phil, is that no mention is made of the effective preventive measures that can be taken.  Namely, Faraday pouches or boxes - or even disabling the key fob.

Perhaps the author of the article is unaware of them.

[wharfhouse]

1 minute ago, LenT said:

What puzzles me, Phil, is that no mention is made of the effective preventive measures that can be taken.  Namely, Faraday pouches or boxes - or even disabling the key fob.

Perhaps the author of the article is unaware of them.

I think a lot of people probably aren't aware of the measures that can be taken - but as I think someone said previously the car manufacturers aren't keen to say much either as it makes their tech look vulnerable... I had a friend some years back who had a brand new BMW X5 stolen - suspected keyless entry. Through a mix up he hadn't fitted the tracker his insurance company had demanded and so they didn't pay out either - very expensive omission... 

[royoftherovers]

3 minutes ago, LenT said:

What puzzles me, Phil, is that no mention is made of the effective preventive measures that can be taken.  Namely, Faraday pouches or boxes - or even disabling the key fob.

Perhaps the author of the article is unaware of them.

Perhaps Len, an increase in the number of vehicles stolen will lead to an increase in vehicle sales to replace them ? Nobody could possible be that devious surely ?

[LenT]

5 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Perhaps Len, an increase in the number of vehicles stolen will lead to an increase in vehicle sales to replace them ? Nobody could possible be that devious surely ?

Such cynicism!!

Of course, it could coincidentally result in an increase in sales of Faraday related products.  Which might benefit someone who was on commission to bring up the subject in a ….but I may have said too much already.  🙄

[Huwge]

A simple double press of the lock button on the Mercedes key stops it transmitting

[ThinkSteve]

57 minutes ago, Huwge said:

A simple double press of the lock button on the Mercedes key stops it transmitting

Also more recent (over at least a couple of years old now I think) Mercedes keys detect motion and stop transmitting if left still for a couple of minutes, so you don't need Faraday pouches or double click. When you pick them up / move them they start transmitting again.

Hopefully this helps others out as lots of people with recent Mercedes don't realise this and still use pouches or double click. Simple to test - lock your car, put the key on the floor, wait see if you can open it, if not nudge the key and try again, repeat until you are happy (or not if it does not have it).

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Huwge said:

A simple double press of the lock button on the Mercedes key stops it transmitting

Just to slightly muddy the waters even more, I note an article in today’s Telegraph quoting a Supt. Jim Munro of West Midlands Police warning that if you use a key fob to lock your vehicle as you leave it, you should check that it really has locked.

Apparently WMP has discovered - possibly belatedly- that car thieves are using devices to block the signal from the fob.  They suggest you confirm it before walking away.  Clearly, turning off the fob after you’ve used a button to lock it will not defeat this particular method.

Of course getting in to a now unlocked car is still some way removed from actually being able to drive it off.  Fortunately, my wing mirrors fold to confirm the locking so that’s a very obvious confirmation.

I also always use the open/close sensors in the front door handles, so there’s no transmitted signal to block.

[Rabbers]

16 hours ago, LenT said:

Such cynicism!🙄

21 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Perhaps Len, an increase in the number of vehicles stolen will lead to an increase in vehicle sales to replace them ? Nobody could possible be that devious surely ?

The thought that a few extra sales might derive from non-adoption of the latest anti-theft technology might well lurk in the minds of some car industry executives along with the idea that car thieves are excellent judges of a car's desirability and therefore, ultimately, of the value of a marque.  However, since the  adoption or non-adoption of new technologies is largely a matter of commercial judgment, there is nothing sinister about decisions taken one way or the other, certainly not in ethical terms given that they are not safety-related.  That the encouragement of thievery by preventive omission might constitute even the tiniest element in a car manufacturer's marketing strategy has, moreover, become even less of a likelihood in recent years (indeed if it ever was) because of the fear of scandal and the increasingly probable presence of whistleblowers on payrolls.

[royoftherovers]

3 minutes ago, Rabbers said:

The thought that a few extra sales might derive from non-adoption of the latest anti-theft technology might well lurk in the minds of some car industry executives along with the idea that car thieves are excellent judges of a car's desirability and therefore, ultimately, of the value of a marque.  However, since the  adoption or non-adoption of new technologies is largely a matter of commercial judgment, there is nothing sinister about decisions taken one way or the other, certainly not in ethical terms given that they are not safety-related.  That the encouragement of thievery by preventive omission might constitute even the tiniest element in a car manufacturer's marketing strategy has, moreover, become even less of a likelihood in recent years (indeed if it ever was) because of the fear of scandal and the increasingly probable presence of whistleblowers on payrolls.

It didn`t stop VW from  being a naughty boy though Ranato.

They all want more Sales, however achieved.

[D Johnson]

It wasn’t just VW, it was Mercedes, Volkswagen, Audi, BMW, Vauxhall, Ford, Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, Nissan, Skoda, Jaguar, Volvo, Hyundai, and Land Rover.  

I wouldn’t give them the benefit of the doubt on this since the entire industry is (rightly imo) regarded as disreputable.  

When I collected my Lexus, I remember asking the sales guy if I had anything to worry about re thieves and he assured me that I did not.  Imagine my surprise when I discovered this was not the case and there was in fact a good deal to worry about.  😂

I don’t think whistleblower action is relevant in this because the lack of genuine interest in theft prevention is likely sub rosa.  

[Rabbers]

4 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

It didn`t stop VW from  being a naughty boy though Ranato.

They all want more Sales, however achieved.

True enough, John, but I think, without getting too earnest about it, that we need to make a distinction between planned serious malfeasance, as was the case with VW (and probably others) and a company’s legitimate protection of its own commercial interests.  We may not, as paying customers, necessarily agree with these interests, the negative perception some of us have of Lexus’ seemingly conscious non-adoption of up-to-date anti-theft technology being a case in point, albeit a comparatively very minor one.