So how’s your Faraday Pouch?

[ColinBarber]

On 5/25/2022 at 1:55 PM, PeterI said:

The Toyota Supra had a "Superior" Thatcham rating against a relay attack so I'm guessing probably a motion sensor has been added to the key. I would guess as the cars get refreshed we'll see this on more of the Lexus range.

The Supra uses a BMW engine/ECU/key. Toyota keys still don't have motion sensing 😞 

[DaveyBoy]

I have smart entry turned off.

Simple. Only way to unlock car is to press the buttons! No cage, no cost just usage of my fingers!

Only a slight 'inconvenience' geez, remember when we had to put a key in to ignition switch and turn it!

Soz for the sarcasm, but sometimes the simplest option is best, and cheapest.

[LenT]

 

21 hours ago, DaveyBoy said:

, …remember when we had to put a key in to ignition switch and turn it!

If only!

I remember having to stand in front of the car, sticking a rod in to it and cranking it up - hoping you’d pulled out the choke far enough.  What we would have given just to turn a switch!

In most cases, anything that makes driving easier is fine by me.  That’s why we have autos.  And if you can’t reverse into a parking space, there are cars that will do it for you. 

So I have no problem with the concept of a smart key.  Indeed, eliminate the human parasites who steal what others have earned, and there’d be no need for a security system.

So it irks me that having acquired - and paid for - the benefit of a Smart Key, I now have to disable it.  The whole point of that technological development is so that I don’t have to press more buttons!

Which I suspect may be the reason why Lexus doesn’t mention  that turning it off makes your Lexus more secure.  
So for the present I shall persevere with the pouch, which definitely works - and has the added benefits of protecting the key and concealing the fact that it belongs to a Lexus.

If that proves too onerous, then I shall have to consider the retrograde step of pushing additional buttons!

[ColinBarber]

7 hours ago, LenT said:

So it irks me that having acquired - and paid for - the benefit of a Smart Key, I now have to disable it.

What's more disappointing and frustrating is these relay attacks have been known about for many years, yet Toyota still hasn't done anything about it - they are still launching new models today with it. The reality is they don't care unless it starts to affect sales - until then they want to maximise the return on investment they/Denso has made on the current, flawed, system.

A solution already exists - use ultra-wideband technology which has time-of-flight calculations built into the protocol to stop relays from being possible.

[LenT]

4 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

A solution already exists - use ultra-wideband technology which has time-of-flight calculations built into the protocol to stop relays from being possible.

I’m obliged to you Colin.  This is not a technology I knew anything about, but as you say, it’s been around for decades.

Having had a chance to do some reading about it, I can see that your assessment of the manufacturer’s attitude looks pretty accurate.  With a technological solution to relay thefts that they’ve ignored for decades, it’s not surprising that Lexus doesn’t wasn’t to highlight their part in facilitating this form of car theft!

[DaveyBoy]

To be fair, this UWB tech has only been around since 2018 or so..... I would expect all car manufacturers to embody this in the next 5 years. But top marquee should be first, so there is no excuse from Lexus. 

I particularly like the idea of integration with a smart phone, such that a separate key is not required.  I remember Tesla made their own mobile car start tech. It just takes ideas and a will to adapt, funding will then follow. That's what makes Tesla so appealing to the youth.

Dash cams? Nah, Tesla built that in. Other cars in 2022, "we can fit a dash cam for you" but it looks shlte. This is what made Tesla such a game changer. The 'electronic cockpit' they are all now hurriedly producing, thank Tesla for that too. Forcing their hand to give us modern tech and not stale 1990s clocks and dials. I'm not a Tesla fanboi and actually the opposite, but I do appreciate and recognise the benefits Elon has given us, indirectly.

[ALAW]

On 5/31/2022 at 10:40 PM, LenT said:

I’m obliged to you Colin.  This is not a technology I knew anything about, but as you say, it’s been around for decades.

Having had a chance to do some reading about it, I can see that your assessment of the manufacturer’s attitude looks pretty accurate.  With a technological solution to relay thefts that they’ve ignored for decades, it’s not surprising that Lexus doesn’t wasn’t to highlight their part in facilitating this form of car theft!

I think Thatcham mentioned key security on UX

[Rabbers]

Given that I rightly or wrongly still cling to the belief that thieves are less likely to want to steal a Lexus than other cars (criminal market shares theoretically reflecting legitimate ones), the only use to which I put my Faraday pouch - being that for which I bought it several cars and upwards of a decade ago - is to prevent doors locking/unlocking and mirrors folding/unfolding when I move around the car washing and drying it.  I am perfectly aware that the key can be disabled for the same purpose, but I prefer the pouch.  Maybe I suffer from some form of button-phobia.

[LenT]

 

1 hour ago, Rabbers said:

   Maybe I suffer from some form of button-phobia.

Koumpounophobia is the fear of buttons and it affects about 1 in 75000 people.

Unfortunately it generally refers to buttons on clothing and is possibly associated with the presence of bacteria and viruses.

But then car keys were probably not invented when the term was!  So it’s time the definition was extended.

[Rabbers]

1 hour ago, LenT said:

 

Koumpounophobia is the fear of buttons …

Indeed.  I didn’t really like to describe myself as koumpounophobic since it is the sort of term that tends to alienate readers, not, I hasten to add, that the LOC membership is wanting in semantic erudition.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, LenT said:

 

Koumpounophobia is the fear of buttons and it affects about 1 in 75000 people.

Unfortunately it generally refers to buttons on clothing and is possibly associated with the presence of bacteria and viruses.

But then car keys were probably not invented when the term was!  So it’s time the definition was extended.

Wrong again Leonard Old Bean.

Koumpounophobia is indeed a fear of buttons, but not a single child or person that`s ever been born has reacted adversely to the appearance of Buttons as you well knew. Perhaps your research was based upon the wrong Noun ?🤣🤣

[LenT]

21 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Wrong again Leonard Old Bean.

Koumpounophobia is indeed a fear of buttons, but not a single child or person that`s ever been born has reacted adversely to the appearance of Buttons as you well knew. Perhaps your research was based upon the wrong Noun ?🤣🤣

I stand corrected, John.

If pressed, I would have guessed that a specific fear of Buttons would be pantophobia.

But that too would be wrong.  Apparently it’s an old and now disused term for a general fear of almost everything!  Oh yes it is!

[Phil xxkr]

28 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

Wrong again Leonard Old Bean.

Koumpounophobia is indeed a fear of buttons, but not a single child or person that`s ever been born has reacted adversely to the appearance of Buttons as you well knew. Perhaps your research was based upon the wrong Noun ?🤣🤣

In defence Len and old beans may I proffer this comment - It comes from the modern Greek word for "to button," κουμπούνω, (koumpouno) which comes from the ancient Greek word for "bean" (κύαμος, kuamos), which makes sense, because the ancients didn't have buttons, but some buttons resemble beans, + πονέω (poneo), "to work hard." So you can see where the modern Greek word comes from. Check any modern Greek dictionary, attach "-phobia" to the noun form, and you've got yourself, well, a legitimately rooted word.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Phil xxkr said:

In defence Len and old beans may I proffer this comment - It comes from the modern Greek word for "to button," κουμπούνω, (koumpouno) which comes from the ancient Greek word for "bean" (κύαμος, kuamos), which makes sense, because the ancients didn't have buttons, but some buttons resemble beans, + πονέω (poneo), "to work hard." So you can see where the modern Greek word comes from. Check any modern Greek dictionary, attach "-phobia" to the noun form, and you've got yourself, well, a legitimately rooted word.

I should have known better than to argue with one of the Gods,lest Zeus should intervene, as indeed he has.

Yes, another formal and correct correction from one who cannot be faulted.

I`ve missed this kind of pleasant banter whilst I`ve been away.

"When shall we three meet again, in Thunder,Lightning or in Rain?"👍👍👍

[Phil xxkr]

32 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

I should have known better than to argue with one of the Gods,lest Zeus should intervene, as indeed he has.

Yes, another formal and correct correction from one who cannot be faulted.

I`ve missed this kind of pleasant banter whilst I`ve been away.

"When shall we three meet again, in Thunder,Lightning or in Rain?"👍👍👍

You raise such an interesting point John let me quote from an established academic "

Greek mythology begins and ends with tales of patricide, symbolising perhaps, the cycle of father-to-son power hierarchies and the ultimate futility of these struggles against the pre-woven patterns of fate. The son-kills-father template is laid out in Greek myth in one of its earliest origin stories, where the titan Kronos is warned by mother Earth (Gaia) that one of his sons is fated to usurp him. Hasty to sidestep the path of destiny, Kronos devours all twelve of his children as they are born- except of course for the youngest- Zeus, who is saved by his mother and eventually returns to indeed supplant his Dad. Perhaps Kronos deserved it- he after all, committed the same crime against his own father Ouranos, but with the added insult of castration.

The parallels between this myth and the characters Macbeth and Duncan are clear, with the exception that it is the son-figure, not the father-figure, who receives the Delphic promise to ‘be king hereafter!’ (I.III) The relationship between Macbeth and Duncan is established at the beginning of the play as a familial one. In the first act, Duncan greets Macbeth as ‘valiant cousin!’ and his praise for Macbeth’s battle prowess rings with hyperbolic, fatherly pride, rather than kingly entitlement"

[MartinH]

Ref please?

[royoftherovers]

21 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

You raise such an interesting point John let me quote from an established academic "

Greek mythology begins and ends with tales of patricide, symbolising perhaps, the cycle of father-to-son power hierarchies and the ultimate futility of these struggles against the pre-woven patterns of fate. The son-kills-father template is laid out in Greek myth in one of its earliest origin stories, where the titan Kronos is warned by mother Earth (Gaia) that one of his sons is fated to usurp him. Hasty to sidestep the path of destiny, Kronos devours all twelve of his children as they are born- except of course for the youngest- Zeus, who is saved by his mother and eventually returns to indeed supplant his Dad. Perhaps Kronos deserved it- he after all, committed the same crime against his own father Ouranos, but with the added ins Philult of castration.

The parallels between this myth and the characters Macbeth and Duncan are clear, with the exception that it is the son-figure, not the father-figure, who receives the Delphic promise to ‘be king hereafter!’ (I.III) The relationship between Macbeth and Duncan is established at the beginning of the play as a familial one. In the first act, Duncan greets Macbeth as ‘valiant cousin!’ and his praise for Macbeth’s battle prowess rings with hyperbolic, fatherly pride, rather than kingly entitlement"

I have said this once before Phil

"You should have attended for interview"

24 minutes ago, MartinH said:

Ref please?

Last week`s edition of the Beano Martin.🤣

[Rabbers]

52 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

… Hasty to sidestep the path of destiny …

Great phrase that, Phil, and congratulations if it’s your own.  I wish I’d heard it earlier in life, and maybe occasionally acted on it.

[royoftherovers]

20 minutes ago, Rabbers said:

Great phrase that, Phil, and congratulations if it’s your own.  I wish I’d heard it earlier in life, and maybe occasionally acted on it.

Work out your Life Path Number Renato.

[Rabbers]

It actually happens, John, that a nice but slightly weird old girlfriend of mine worked out my LP number for me before we left each other by mutual agreement immediately afterwards.  Many decades later I still regard this as one of the best “sidesteppings of the path of destiny” I and probably she ever did. Thank you for reminding me of it.

[royoftherovers]

1 hour ago, Rabbers said:

It actually happens, John, that a nice but slightly weird old girlfriend of mine worked out my LP number for me before we left each other by mutual agreement immediately afterwards.  Many decades later I still regard this as one of the best “sidesteppings of the path of destiny” I and probably she ever did. Thank you for reminding me of it.

You are welcome Renato, my friend.

I cannot subscribe to it, as I view it as an Academics version of a Horoscope.

Some of  the forecasts are likely to happen to some people, some of the time over time.

Just my view and we are all mainly free to believe what we want to believe.

[Rabbers]

27 minutes ago, royoftherovers said:

I cannot subscribe to it, as I view it as an Academics version of a Horoscope.

Some of  the forecasts are likely to happen to some people, some of the time over time.

Just my view and we are all mainly free to believe what we want to believe.

We are totally in agreement, John.  I can’t even remember my Life Path number, whatever it was and presumably still is.  And, as regards sidestepping the path of destiny, the only things I’ve ever sidestepped on a path are of the type I would have otherwise needed to scrape off my boots.

[Phil xxkr]

5 hours ago, MartinH said:

Ref please?

Apologies Martin, I don't do Refs only umpires 😎

[Phil xxkr]

5 hours ago, Rabbers said:

Great phrase that, Phil, and congratulations if it’s your own.  I wish I’d heard it earlier in life, and maybe occasionally acted on it.

Fraid not Renato, I'm just standing on the shoulders of giants 😎

[royoftherovers]

14 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Fraid not Renato, I'm just standing on the shoulders of giants 😎

As Bob Paisley once said of Bill Shankly ?