Electric bus goes up in flames!

[steve2006]

Just watched this on YouTube which appears to be a fire on an electric bus in Paris.

Judging by the speed of the fire and sparks I would assume some kind of short circuit within the lithium ion Battery packs is the cause.

Certainly makes the Vauxhall Zafira fires look tame in comparison.

 

[NemesisUK]

What surprises me is that the batteries are located in the roof section! How does that affect the handling and what do they use the underfloor section for?

[rayaans]

2 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

What surprises me is that the batteries are located in the roof section! How does that affect the handling and what do they use the underfloor section for?

It might be for luggage.

[NemesisUK]

On a coach, yes but a city bus? Probably a general vehicle conversion but I would be uncomfortable sitting below a Battery pack!

[rayaans]

50 minutes ago, NemesisUK said:

On a coach, yes but a city bus? Probably a general vehicle conversion but I would be uncomfortable sitting below a battery pack!

It looked like a coach to me at first.

On doing more research seems to be a Bluebus by Bollore which have since been withdrawn due to two fires. Apparently it has batteries in the roof and the rear section where the engine would originally be. 

There doesnt appear to be any space under the floor as the majority of it is flat until just before the rear wheels and its too close to the ground  - It also has air suspension so that it can accommodate kerbs of different heights so maybe a risk of bottoming out

Its using solid state batteries with a range of 320km

[Spacewagon52]

The ferocity and speed of the fire took me by surprise.

[Alan305]

Another electric bus fire at Potters Bar last Sunday. TFL have now withdrawn 90 electric buses from service.

Could be that the rush to electric is not as carefully considered as it should be.

[Malc]

8 minutes ago, Alan305 said:

Could be that the rush to electric is not as carefully considered as it should be.

and the move to Hydrogen Power should be hastened I feel  

Malc

[royoftherovers]

MH370 was carrying more than 200kgs of Lithiumion Batteries.

Just saying.

[Spock66]

14 minutes ago, Malc said:

and the move to Hydrogen Power should be hastened I feel 

Possibly, but Hydrogen has significant safety risks too....

The London bendy buses also had a habit of catching fire...

[Alan305]

Hydrogen does have problems.

[javadude]

It's a good job petrol isn't flammable...

[javadude]

From https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/

 

[steve2006]

Putting the fire out however is apparently another matter.

We have all probably seen the Fire Brigade arrive to a car in flames either on TV or witnessed, one pump, one hose and 5 minutes to be out.

The problem with electric vehicles according to reports is it can take 2 hours to get an electric car fire under control mainly due to the batteries being fully encased and under the car which if not fully extinguished they can reignite. 

Some fire departments have been putting cars into a water filled skip to ensure the fire is out

The amount of damage to the surrounding area and environmental impacts also increases.

[Malc]

17 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

The amount of damage to the surrounding area and environmental impacts also increases.

clearly a very much greener vehicular solution then than our V8 petrol beauties ???  

Malc

[MartinH]

I read a big story (sorry no ref) detailing how fire departments in the south-western United States are training first responders specifically on the techniques required to extinguish EV fires. What is needed, above all, is a great deal of water. Guess where there's a drought?

[royoftherovers]

2 minutes ago, MartinH said:

I read a big story (sorry no ref) detailing how fire departments in the south-western United States are training first responders specifically on the techniques required to extinguish EV fires. What is needed, above all, is a great deal of water. Guess where there's a drought?

Water on an EV fire surprises me Martin.

[MartinH]

Yes, the reporter remarked on this, because it is not the usual way of tackling an electrical fire. A quick search turned this up:
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/federal-regulators-warn-risks-firefighters-electrical-vehicle-fires-n1271084

[Barry14UK]

The little dry powder extinguisher in my car likely not to be of much help then!

[royoftherovers]

2 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

The little dry powder extinguisher in my car likely not to be of much help then!

All Local Authorities need to stock up on new kit, then Barry

[Linas.P]

I have seen the story before, but kind of decided not to make any conclusions from it. This burning bus is highly suspicious... like what exactly the person was filming when it suddenly busted into flames... lucky coincidence or set-up? Maybe I need to put tin foil hat, but sometimes some of "viral" videos are just too convenient.

And I am by no means EVangelist - as many may know, I don't think BEV is the future, they have their place and they are good for certain things, but as a replacement for all vehicles it makes no sense and I would argue it is impossible to achieve... or worse - it will be achieved with consequences which will be far worse to the society and the environment, than just continuing to use ICEVs. In short BEV future seems to be the one where we will have to ask for permission to drive, will be forced to use public transport, cycle or walk, in the best case have share of the car and will not be allowed to own it (or simply could not afford) and will pay excessive amounts for energy, yet all the planet around us will be in even worse place because of all mining and toxic production. But... I don't think this video is proof of that.

 

[Las Palmas]

On 5/23/2022 at 9:48 PM, NemesisUK said:

On a coach, yes but a city bus? Probably a general vehicle conversion but I would be uncomfortable sitting below a battery pack!

Would you not be if you were sitting on top of such a gigantic Battery?

Better the flames are out of the bus than inside it.

On 5/24/2022 at 1:00 PM, javadude said:

From https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/

 

Gasoline has been in cars for many years. EV are relatively new. Just wait a few years when the cars get older.

[Linas.P]

On 5/24/2022 at 1:00 PM, javadude said:

From https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/

This is particularly egregious example statistical fallacy (or rather multiple fallacies), so much so that I would go as far as saying that creator of this data is trying to deliberately mislead the intended reader... and kind of knows that such data will be picked-up by EVangelists and plastered across the internet. 

So what is the issue here? Simply the fact that risk of fire increases exponentially with the age of the vehicle, as such this information would only be relevant is we know the age of the vehicles and cause of fire. However, the data is derived by current sales vs. fires... which is completely irrelevant, because most petrol cars that caught fire are classic or very old cars. Instead most of electric cars that caught fire are nearly new or certainly under 10 years old. Not only that - we don't even know what caused the fire, it may have been electrical and as such not related to the fuel used.

On top of that, this infographic particularly uses information from NTSB, who look at the fires as result of fatal accidents. See the problem here? So that is not all fires from all causes, only the fires from the accidents which as well had at least one fatality. Again, the reality is that most of fires on petrol cars are not accident related... and ALL cars are designed and tested considering accident safety, as such it is not surprising that both in testing and in real life accidents relatively new and safe EVs survives quite well. However, most fires starts due to lack of maintenance and general disrepair... so realistically we only know how bad are electric cars when they going to get to the point where they are old, worthless, run down, fixed by questionable mechanics and run on shoe strings... like the ICEV counterparts we are comparing with.

In short - this information is manipulation of statistical data and BS, but it is good example of bad research. More relevant metric would be to see fire statistic broken down by average age of vehicle for example.

[Barry14UK]

Here is an interesting video by 'Scotty' on rare earth metals where China holds an advantage.  

also shown here some of the Chinese produced cars with Norway being an early recipient so a major shake up coming.  Note one system uses Battery that will not ignite even with nail driven into it.  

 

[Malc]

11 hours ago, Linas.P said:

But... I don't think this video is proof of that.

and in times past there was absolutely no evidence of the horse drawn charabancs, coaches in times past of ever going " bang " and up in rages of fire and plumes of noxious smoke

So do we abandon motorised vehicular mass transport and revert to delightful horse drawn carriages and the side issue of mass poo droppings to contend with ....... bring on Sanditon and Pride and Prejudice forever ............

in their day I would think the papers ran grand cimax'tic stories of death and destruction from such mass cariers going awry .  trampling a child to death amongst horse rage

Let's simply face this head-on ...  mass transport has teething troubles and on-going issues to address ...  so let's just bear with this all whilst the technological developing issues get sorted and life goes on happier than ever ......... moving people around safely ............... it will come I'm sure

Malc