Rear Steering Rack failure - rebuilt/second hand parts? GS 450h F-sport 2014

[bigglesfllesundone]

Looking at the 2017 catalogue, only the 28 facelift gs450h has 4 wheel steering system, however the gs300h does not.

looking at how many left website, f sport gs cars not taxed or on SORN, so potential donor cars for parts if not burnt/exported etc, approx figures are; gs250  56/281, gs450h   44/283

gs300h 21/153

 121 cars of the 717 registered were not on SORN (17) or taxed in 2021. 

Potentially parts may be somewhere.

[Damien7579]

On 5/17/2022 at 10:32 PM, NemesisUK said:

You say the rack "won't take a recalibtation", that sounds like an electronic problem/failure. Surely just the control module and or sensor(s) needs replacing/repair?

There are no spares for the any part of the rear steering rack  - you have to buy the entire unit if it fails anywhere according to lexus. I checked their spares and this appears to be legit. I've tried breakers/salvage etc but nothing so far. It seems beyond crazy that this is what they've done. 

 

On 5/18/2022 at 11:25 PM, bigglesfllesundone said:

This is a long shot, but it appears from this trail;

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-4th-gen-2013-2020/975640-malfunction-issues-after-lowering-car.html
 

That the car needs the rear wheels lifted off the ground for calibration to be done. As far as I can see only GS f-sport and LC have dynamic rear steering and so there is a vague possibility of the dealer not following correct procedure, if No experience and/or Techstream/Lexus procedures not followed?

Yeah, the lexus dealer I use has done this repair once before and new exactly what to do and I saw it up on the lift twice and the calibration took the 2nd time but on their test drive it failed after only a few miles and back to error state (so very likely electronic issue or loose something).

I'm awaiting to hear back from Lexus Ireland on any options from them tho I'm not hopeful.

[bigglesfllesundone]

Cost if part needed, presumably 45900-30070 from amayama Japan (used by some on this forum) is £2149.73 plus shipping. Not sure about taxes etc

[J Henderson]

5 hours ago, bigglesfllesundone said:

Cost if part needed, presumably 45900-30070 from amayama Japan (used by some on this forum) is £2149.73 plus shipping. Not sure about taxes etc

With the OP being quoted "over 10,000GBP" for the part alone, this is a whole new level of dealership scalpery! Even if shipping and taxes adds another £1K, that's a ridiculous mark-up.

The part would no doubt have to be specially ordered from Japan anyway, so it's not like the Lexus dealer would get one any quicker.

Anyway, yes can recommend Amayama. Always great service when I've used them. 👍 

[rayaans]

Just had a thought 

Could contact Lexus parts direct and see what the price is for comparison sake 

[Damien7579]

7 hours ago, bigglesfllesundone said:

Cost if part needed, presumably 45900-30070 from amayama Japan (used by some on this forum) is £2149.73 plus shipping. Not sure about taxes etc

Thank you so much for the info - I wasn't aware of amayama and I had googled and googled the above part number but only found US listings & other part sites selling it for 6-8K USD. This actually might end up being my best option. Taxes will be 23% VAT in import costs but even after that, this will come in over 70% cheaper than the lexus quoted price! I will see what Lexus say next week and update this post.

 

[J Henderson]

Definitely bookmark Amayama.

Even for mundane stuff, it can often work out way cheaper than UK/EU, even with the additional cost of express shipping and import taxes on top.

For example, I got a pair of new wiper arms for my IS. Even with EMS shipping and an import charge, it was still cheaper than buying one from the UK.

[Damien7579]

Quick update:

I spoke to Lexus Ireland who agreed to subsidize the OEM part by 50% bringing the price down to around 6,000 Euros + fitting on top 🤑. The part will take 6+ weeks to arrive from.. Japan of course. So I told them politely, thanks, but no thanks and ordered it directly from Amayama for 2,700Euro including shipping and I will have to pay 23% VAT and 3% duty when it arrives but this is still 50% less than Lexus price.

Unbelievable markup and utterly disappointing - they refused to reduce this further saying they where "doing their best and this was as low as they could and they where doing me a huge favor blah blah" e.g. they still where looking for a 50% markup. I told them I was ordering it myself from Japan and they questioned that the  part couldn't possibly be genuine lexus etc etc

It's things like this that make it hard to be loyal to a brand going forward. I guess they're taking advantage of the global supply issue as is everyone else.

Will update thread once part arrives and is fitted.

Thanks again for the tip on Amayama - I wish they where better indexed by google as their site is amazing and they responded to my queries super quick and all in English.

[F.A.]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:27 PM, bigglesfllesundone said:

Rear steering for GSF is different and cheaper $1600, to GS fsport $6500, on US spares site

The GSF doesn’t have rear steering 

[rayaans]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:04 PM, Damien7579 said:

Quick update:

I spoke to Lexus Ireland who agreed to subsidize the OEM part by 50% bringing the price down to around 6,000 Euros + fitting on top 🤑. The part will take 6+ weeks to arrive from.. Japan of course. So I told them politely, thanks, but no thanks and ordered it directly from Amayama for 2,700Euro including shipping and I will have to pay 23% VAT and 3% duty when it arrives but this is still 50% less than Lexus price.

Unbelievable markup and utterly disappointing - they refused to reduce this further saying they where "doing their best and this was as low as they could and they where doing me a huge favor blah blah" e.g. they still where looking for a 50% markup. I told them I was ordering it myself from Japan and they questioned that the  part couldn't possibly be genuine lexus etc etc

It's things like this that make it hard to be loyal to a brand going forward. I guess they're taking advantage of the global supply issue as is everyone else.

Will update thread once part arrives and is fitted.

Thanks again for the tip on Amayama - I wish they where better indexed by google as their site is amazing and they responded to my queries super quick and all in English.

I would assume they get the parts from Lexus directly so a markup is to be expected.

There may be other things that they have included pricing for including changing other parts which you may not be aware of

[Initial P]

50% off its about the going rate for brand discounts from what I've read about over the years on various forums.

My neighbours Renault ECU went wrong about a year after the warranty ran out & got 40% discount after going direct to them & after some bartering.

[Damien7579]

Quick update:

The rear rack was fixed at a total cost of about 4.1k Euro - 1K euro for fitting + ECU and other stuff I had done + 3.1k Euro for the unit itself which included Delivery + VAT + duty.

I ordered the required rear steering part from Amayama Japan and it arrived after a few weeks - I must say their service is incredible! Lexus Galway fitted it no problems and will warranty the work/unit for 12m. The ECU controlling the steering unit had also fried which was another ~2.5K euros (!) but luckily they had one from another customer and sold it to me for 10% of the price.

So, in the end an expensive fix, but the original price was well north of 12k so I think I did well enough to get costs down thanks to this great forum. Cheers to everyone who replied.

Damien

[J Henderson]

2 hours ago, Damien7579 said:

The ECU controlling the steering unit had also fried which was another ~2.5K euros (!) but luckily they had one from another customer and sold it to me for 10% of the price.

Great result. But does that mean someone else had the same problem?

[Damien7579]

21 minutes ago, J Henderson said:

Great result. But does that mean someone else had the same problem?

Yes, that's correct - another GS450h owner had exact same issue as me 18m ago - they managed to get a refurbed part from a scrapyard in Ireland and he ordered the ECU but never needed it - thankfully for me. Maybe GS450h's don't like the horrible roads here?? 

[J Henderson]

As someone who would quite fancy an F-Sport 450h at some point, that's a bit of a worry!

[Damien7579]

2 hours ago, J Henderson said:

As someone who would quite fancy an F-Sport 450h at some point, that's a bit of a worry!

Yeah, I didn't actually know until I got my F-sport that it had rear steering so didn't do any research before purchase but anecdotally its hard to know if it's a likely issue - here in Ireland there can't be more than a handful so you would think from 2 failures there is a big issue but from other responses on here and my own searching on various forums here in UK and US there was hardly anyone else posting about this issue. I spoke two 2 dealers and a Lexus specialist in the UK on the phone who claimed they'd never seen this issue themselves if that helps at all. Maybe speak to some Scottish dealers and see if they've seen any incidents. It would be a shame to put you off as the f-sport 450h is awesome.

[Initial P]

Glad to see you got this sorted in the end 😎

Maybe this is why the facelift didn't have the rear steering too many claims.

[ColinBarber]

9 minutes ago, Initial P said:

Maybe this is why the facelift didn't have the rear steering too many claims.

They do have rear steering.

[Initial P]

I'm sure I read on here they didn't only on pre not saying it was right.

There was a GS450H F Sport on AT last year that was for sale then not then again with big prices drops in between, private seller.

[stripester]

*** Warning resurecting and old post! ***

DAMN.....Looks like its my turn for this issue, i've scanned the car, tried all the initialisation procdures and all points to a fault with the actuator....In at Lexus in the next few weeks, I will let you know how I get on.

I MIGHT, have a go at disassembeling the unit and rebuilding it....doesnt look a complicated component may just be a motor/bearing issue like the oil pump bearings in the MK3's.

[stripester]

On 10/10/2022 at 5:07 PM, Damien7579 said:

Quick update:

The rear rack was fixed at a total cost of about 4.1k Euro - 1K euro for fitting + ECU and other stuff I had done + 3.1k Euro for the unit itself which included Delivery + VAT + duty.

I ordered the required rear steering part from Amayama Japan and it arrived after a few weeks - I must say their service is incredible! Lexus Galway fitted it no problems and will warranty the work/unit for 12m. The ECU controlling the steering unit had also fried which was another ~2.5K euros (!) but luckily they had one from another customer and sold it to me for 10% of the price.

So, in the end an expensive fix, but the original price was well north of 12k so I think I did well enough to get costs down thanks to this great forum. Cheers to everyone who replied.

Damien

I'm not sure the rack was at fault, I am in the process of fault finding and this is what I am seeing...The ECU is reporting no voltage at PIG but it measures 12v.

Watch this space for the outcome of this....

DYNAMIC REAR STEERING SYSTEM TERMINALS OF ECU.pdf

 

Live Data List Printing(S821-03.pdf

[stripester]

*** UPDATE ***

Reserved for update 

STEERING FIXED NOT RACK BUT DRS ECU

Will updates Sunday 11th

[stripester]

DRS now completely fixed, it was the DRS ECU.

I looked at the mechanics of the Steering rack, very simple, very robust, would be supprised if this was to fail so assumed it wasn't the failure point.

My orignal fault code was "C1241 Low Power Supply Voltage Malfunction (Presumed due to the previous Low battery) which I replaced, I had to jump start the car at this point.

Then I got a new error C1B17.

On Tis, if the ECU reports "C1B17 Motor Rotation Angle Mismatch (Stroke Sensor)" it says replace the rack, this obviously assumed the ECU is not defective.  This was my original fault after

I noticed on the live data I had no supply perminent 12v supply to the PIG Power Supply, The ECU was reporting 0.46v but should be between 11 and 14v, I measured the Feed and it was 12v, so the ECU was not seeing this.

My Brother who is an electronics genius disassembled the ECU up to a point and noticed lots of "Dry Joints" soldered them up, reinstalled and the ECU was then reporting 12v. BINGO!  Note that the ECU is servicible but lots and lots of pins will need to be desoldered, luckly for me I didn't have to go down this path, note the following link which shows a similar ECU used in the Toyota Camry -

Russian Site with Disassembled ECU

I now needed to test the steering and set the Neutral Position and Calibrate the actuatior (I had previously reset this), note jacking point to do this in picbelow, chock the front wheels!

If you follow the steps in Techstream to memorize neutral and calibrate the rear steering it won't work because Techstream is wrong (or at least my version is 16.00.020), you need to cycle the ignition on and off between steps to presumably put the ECU in programming mode, once done the rear ECU actuated the steering, store the callibration and everything was back to normal. 

I have attached all the information to this post in the event it helps someone.

Usefull Links -

Online Wiring Diagrams

Russian Repair Manual (use translation in browser)

 

Live Data List Printing(S821-03.pdf WIRING - DRS-RHD-B.pdf DYNAMIC REAR STEERING SYSTEM FREEZE FRAME DATA.pdf DYNAMIC REAR STEERING SYSTEM FAIL SAFE.pdf DYNAMIC REAR STEERING SYSTEM SYSTEM DESCRIPTION.pdf DYNAMIC REAR STEERING SYSTEM TERMINALS OF ECU.pdf

[HensTeeth]

That's a fantastic piece of work and very kind of you to have shared it for future use. Mine isn't an F-Sport and therefore doesn't have that particular failure mode, but that's going to save someone a pretty penny at some point in future!

[yeahlad]

stripester thats some first class repair info