Working from home

[First_Lexus]

There has been much media coverage this week about Jacob Rees-Mogg and his desire to return Civil Servants to more of an office based working culture.

I now have to work at home most of the time. My organisation has reduced the estate, and there aren’t enough desks for everybody in an office - perhaps enough for 30% of our people at one time. I visit the office only once a week for meetings.

Now, I do fully accept that the shift towards a ‘work from home’ model affords me more flexibility. I don’t have the regular commute and the associated time and fuel costs. The change enabled me to relocate back from whence I came when I took my current role, close to my friends and family. There are benefits for me.

However, I’m really not a fan. I work longer hours now than I did previously. It is harder to segregate work from home. Besides that, I actually don’t think working at home is as nice. Things I could once have sorted with a quick chat now require me to track down the person I need online and find a space in their diary. There are more ‘meetings’ as a result. I miss the team interaction, and I genuinely worry about younger workers who miss out on physical interaction and problem solving with their colleagues. 

There’s a big social deficit too. I’m not just talking about discussions within the team, but also after work drinks, dinner etc. It’s more difficult now.

I tend to agree with JRM on this one. I’m unconvinced that, overall, the benefits of working at home outweigh the negatives. 

Am I out of step here? Is it time I was put out to pasture?

[PCM]

I think a mix is nice.

My wife... when she works from home, works longer, gets less exercise and stairs at screen. There is no cut-off time.

Not entirely healthy, I think.

I have retired, but when I do, do a 'bit' of part-time, I love to see colleagues, chat, travel and be in the workplace.

[Phil xxkr]

Twenty years ago we were pioneering the concept of LIW's, Location Independent Workers because advances in comms technology made it possible. Biggest employer doubt at the time was "can I trust my employee"? Twenty years on and the rapid advances in software now means employers can track and measure all of your inputs  so that becomes irrelevant 😱. The biggest danger today for an employee wfh is recession. Depending on severity cutting staff will be the norm and /or outsourcing to cheaper labour rates. As you say Ed, wfh means to all extent you are functioning as a contractor with no demonstrable allegiance to your employer that forms in the usual face to face environment

[Malc]

my working day is rather spasmoidic, at home, in front of my screen and on my Iphone ........... calls, messages, whatsapps et al ....  and i think I'm very productive at those times too 

Zoom and Team calls i avoid ..........  don't like them at all  ....but then, I am semi retired and with a full-time office working again in Delhi ............ very small staffing level though .....  they are all within a short metro or bus ride of the Office  ....  in lockdown there some staff did work from home too

NOW . back in my full time working days      an aeon ago I spent about 2 hrs each way travelling to my Office in the City .  of London ...  and back home again ....... and I thought that to be a total waste of time, totally unproductive and actually quite tiring ..  i seemed to sleep most of it ....... I think ! ...  but that was pre laptops, ipads etc

Working From Home can be incredibly good and productive and worthwhile  .....  I think it totally depends on the honesty and values of the employee AND of course, if the employee actually prefers that concept 

There's no one cap fits all methinks AND I just know that ( following Yes Prime Minister / Hacker  ) reducing the Govt Civil service by 91k  people might be achieved simply by privatising some element of it or indeed just retiring and then re-hiring those people into similar indistinguishable roles

Can't believe for one minute that reducing the Govt wages bill by 91k people will ever materialise no matter how it's dressed up ........  Yes Prime Minister .  and JRM 

Malc

[First_Lexus]

54 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Twenty years ago we were pioneering the concept of LIW's, Location Independent Workers because advances in comms technology made it possible. Biggest employer doubt at the time was "can I trust my employee"? Twenty years on and the rapid advances in software now means employers can track and measure all of your inputs  so that becomes irrelevant 😱. The biggest danger today for an employee wfh is recession. Depending on severity cutting staff will be the norm and /or outsourcing to cheaper labour rates. As you say Ed, wfh means to all extent you are functioning as a contractor with no demonstrable allegiance to your employer that forms in the usual face to face environment

When I started work (early 1990s) for a large organisation in a big office in central London most people didn’t even have computers on their desks. There were certainly very few mobile telephones.

Accepting it was an old fashioned type of organisation - wonderful to work for though - there seemed to be far less pressure on employees. There were certainly more people around. Work was as much social as anything, although we did (obviously) have to get things done!

Afternoon meetings would be accompanied by a trolley (brought to order by the catering staff) of snacks and cakes, along with multiple bottles of wine, cans of beer and spirits for those that wanted them. Most people would go out afterwards too. Every Friday work finished at 14.00 and we were all encouraged to go to the ‘lounge’ areas on every floor and have a drink, also provided by the company.

Nobody abused the hospitality. It seemed very normal at the time, and it was great fun. People stayed because they enjoyed the atmosphere and the friendship. More than fifteen years after I left, I’m still friends with loads of people from that time, although to be fair some of them I’d also been to University or even school with so we go back a bit further.

I feel privileged to have worked at that time. When I started there, there were 3,000 people in that one office. When I left fifteen years later there were fewer than 800. Technology, recession and changing habits drove that decline. I maintain that the face to face interaction and socialising drove rather than hindered our performance. And we sure had a lot of fun!

Different times. I miss them. Sigh.

[First_Lexus]

4 minutes ago, Malc said:

Can't believe for one minute that reducing the Govt wages bill by 91k people will ever materialise no matter how it's dressed up

To be fair the plan, as I understand it, is simply to reduce numbers back to 2016 levels prior to recruitment needed to facilitate UK exit from the EU and recently supporting pandemic response.

Nothing wrong with that imho. And I think it will happen, albeit as you say mostly through natural wastage rather than by planned attrition.

[Arnett]

I hate working from home, but it has some upsides. 

I now work in a position I never would have applied for as the office is too far away, and I only have to go to the office <6 times a year. As my contract states I'm home based fuel etc is expensed. 

 

But, in that one day I may spend into the office and I bump into people from other departments, I converse & have water cooler chats. My networking and idea sharing is 10 times easier in person. 

When in "teams" meetings it's seen as rider to interject etc but when in a conversation it flows better so it's easy to do so, and this can often lead to better conversations. 

 

I wouldn't say I work longer days working at home, but I do turn the laptop on when not working just to programme my week in advance, and I do skip breaks when working from home, because I snack more and am less bothered about having time away from the system. 

 

I generally feel that office based roles have a better benefit being exactly that, it's also easier to support colleagues who are struggling in an office location rather than doing it over teams.

[Sundance]

Back in the day, when I were a lad, employees went to a place of work and the self-employed worked from home ... and the former vastly outnumbered the latter.

With time, progress, technology and evolution comes our current brave new world where my son, a freelance creative, travels to a place of work and my daughter, a servant of the Crown, has spells of working from home (sorry Moggy).

The tables are constantly turning as the world changes but wherever you work the mainstay of a successful arrangement must surely be the reliance on trust and good communication twixt employer/employee, client/consultant such that overall efficiency is maintained and vulnerability to negative outside influences is reduced.

Contrary to what I would have thought, my son says he works better when at his place of work whereas my daughter says her efficiency definitely increases when working from home. 

I'm rather glad I'm retired.

[Malc]

13 minutes ago, Sundance said:

I'm rather glad I'm retired.

and if you get ultra bored with that then you will become ann even better employee or entrepreneur with a new business simply coz of your lifetime experiences and influences

Malc

[rayaans]

It can be a pain. Half the time I end up doing something in the house or the car when I should really be working. 

I don't drive as much so go out to burn fuel for the sake of it. 

It does save some time though but that's probably because I'm doing things on a weekday that I should be doing at work. 

I'm technically self employed but I get paid regardless of what I'm doing. The problem is that my profits suffer if I'm not looking at what the team are doing so I'm probably losing out. Will have to give the accountants a call....

[Malc]

15 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Will have to give the accountants a call....

bet they charge on a per minute call basis too .....  hahahahaha

Malc

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

bet they charge on a per minute call basis too .....  hahahahaha

Malc

Well luckily my accountant is a good friend of mine so just tend to call him directly no matter what time of day

[Sundance]

5 hours ago, Malc said:

and if you get ultra bored with that then you will become ann even better employee or entrepreneur with a new business simply coz of your lifetime experiences and influences

Malc

Well, I was using the word 'retired' rather loosely.  I'm drawing my pension but in fact still working, albeit part-time and on my own terms and with no NI obligations.  Just how I like it.  Can't imagine doing diddly-squat or playing golf all day every day.

Which means I'm lucky, in fact we in this Country are lucky, because in some other Countries once you start drawing your pension you are no longer allowed to work, you can be arrested and fined if you do.

So I'm still giving and of course taking, but only in proportion. 😉

[Caspa]

I love the WFH life.

It coincided with me having a child and so allowed me to experience so much more than I would have being gone for 12hrs a day during the week.

Had been tied to the City for 16 years so took the chance to sell up and move to greener pastures away from London. 

I don't miss the commute one bit and haven't been into the office for nearly 2.5 years now. 

I do appreciate what others have said, and agree that it doesn't work for all so flexible hybrid options need to be offered. 

I can't see myself ever going back and feel privileged to be able to say that, as it wouldn't be the case if I was just starting out. It must be tough for that group as others have pointed out.

[superatticman]

On 5/14/2022 at 9:02 PM, Caspa said:

I love the WFH life.

It coincided with me having a child and so allowed me to experience so much more than I would have being gone for 12hrs a day during the week.

Had been tied to the City for 16 years so took the chance to sell up and move to greener pastures away from London. 

I don't miss the commute one bit and haven't been into the office for nearly 2.5 years now. 

I do appreciate what others have said, and agree that it doesn't work for all so flexible hybrid options need to be offered. 

I can't see myself ever going back and feel privileged to be able to say that, as it wouldn't be the case if I was just starting out. It must be tough for that group as others have pointed out.

A colleague of mine has just left a relatively low commute job to work in the City of London. Its a 1st/2nd line IT support role at a large company with excellent perks. What was interesting was that he explained to me that it took them 6 months to recruit for that role. Prior to lockdown...they were able to recruit within the month and were overwhelmed with applications. Quite simply, people have tired of working in Central London, the commute etc. 

There's been a cultural shift since lockdown. Friends of mine have traded well paying jobs for less income but far higher quality of life. Happy to earn less WFH and not having to face up to the commute every day. 

 

 

 

[Phil0110]

I totally agree with you. I also work at home, but you need to set boundaries (e.g. don't work after 6), as for social thing, you can go to the gym and communicate with people there. 

[DavidCM]

I must have been one of the earlier WFH s,probably from around 2005,complete with dial up internet and patchy Vodafone signal.

From the very start,I converted an outbuilding to my office,rather than working off the dining room table.That was the key to success for WFH...finish work and walk away from it,although I couldn't find a pub on my way down the garden.

About 5 years later, all 300 of my colleagues got booted out of their offices and had to WFH.Luckily 2 years later the company "rightsized" and I gave voluntary early retirement careful consideration for about a second or two and went.

[Malc]

On 5/14/2022 at 10:17 AM, Malc said:

very small staffing level though .....  they are all within a short metro or bus ride of the Office  ....  in lockdown there some staff did work from home too

thought I'd just update here a little ...........

since this above post ..... actually recruited one brilliant guy who can't find a more local better role .  and he def can't work from home, too many kids etc ........  and he lives a 40km 2.5hr drive from my office  .  even leaving finishing work at 11.30 at night it's still a 2.5hr drive home for him

As some of you might know, in Delhi delivery trucks are banned until ( I think ) 10.30pm at nighttime to avoid the car congestion  ..  creates it's own mayhem .  and yes, a 40km drive in Delhi at any time is a usual nightmmare 

Malc

[ZionCollier]

On 5/14/2022 at 1:35 PM, Malc said:

and if you get ultra bored with that then you will become ann even better employee or entrepreneur with a new business simply coz of your lifetime experiences and influences

Malc

I'm not retired yet but I already think about my own micro business ... 

[GMB]

My last few years at work were classed as "based at home" because I did most of my work either on the phone or computer remote access or travelling around the world. It worked OK.  My boss, based in New Jersey, USA used to ring me usually at five minutes to the hour. He let me in on the secret that he knew that we had a cuckoo clock and that told him that I was at home and not in the pub.

 I remember one particular Friday afternoon driving 5 hrs on the Mway from London while doing a very long and complicated tech support phone call. I don't remember any of the journey due to the complexity of the call.  Now that's what I call dangerous and stupid but we were obliged to do it!

It would not happen nowadays fortunately.

[Malc1]

1 hour ago, GMB said:

It would not happen nowadays fortunately.

Nowadays one might be the " driver " of a auto-self-drive auto Tesla thingy and won't need to pay attention to the road around you !

Or has this not happened yet ?

Malc

[lexusbro]

I don't miss working in the office at all. Working from home has so many benefits for me. Initially, I did work longer hours, but now that I'm used to the setup, I no longer have to extend my workday. My back does hurt more often, but the food is way better compared to when I was in the office. Sure, there are more video calls these days, but the trade-off is definitely worth it. Working from home lets me see my family more, which is a huge plus.

[Malc1]

Just to update a little …….. technology since Covid has boosted the need for more tech and less people in my ( Delhi based ) travel agency business 

Tech has transformed it all ……. one guy, our chief sales guy has just had a broken leg pinned etc from a motorbike accident getting to the Office 

Hes desperate to WFH as he can’t yet get to the Office ……. I’m sure we’ll find a way for WFH to work for him but after 22 days he says …….. some medical reason I think ! 

I work from home every day 6 days a week …… I deal with the financials only ……. daily massaging the accounts etc ….. irregular timings and on a needs must basis …… hopefully Im kept busy ! 

As I said before, working in the City and 4 hrs a day commute was NOT preferable BUT it was a great socialising time with great work colleagues 

Too old and knackered now to commute anywhere ….. even to the business office in Delhi 

Retirement ( of sorts ) brings great coffee and cake opportunities everywhere from the luxury of my Ls400s 

Long may my WFH continue ….. now where’s that damn Draft Balance Sheet  😄

Malc 

[Scotlex]

I think WFH can be great for many people especially older people who are good at their job and are quite dedicated. I really couldn't face a long daily commute.

For younger people starting out in a career it is not ideal. Training online or over the phone is never the same. As said before, meeting other workers and socialising can be a "nice part of the job".

The "workers" who try to do as little as possible are another problem 😅

[dutchie01]

I think you have a point here. When i was in my twenties i loved to go to the office. Mainly for the office girls and of course stupid humour with the guys and a drink or two after hours. Now in my sixties i almost hate going in. So many young people that think differently and seem to have a different work ethic than us old dinosaurs.  I cannot work from home as my wife just cant stop talking and questioning what i do why and what did he say kind of thing. I rent and office in a business centre 10 mins from home. Oh the joy! peace and quiet!