My RX 450h Hit again!!

Barry14UK · May 5, 2022

Having previously been hit at the back and got over all the hassle that involved, a car came out of a side street early this evening and was driven into the side of me. I was on a main road. The other car, Audi as previously, was turning left and his offside front bumper and headlamp was badly damaged. The damage to my car was to the rear of my nearside front wing, the frame behind it and the leading edge of the passenger front door with some scraping down most of the remaining nearside. So it was clear that the Audi was driven into me as I was partially past it. My wife was in the front passenger seat and had to climb over to my side and exit by my door as hers wouldn't open without using considerable force and likely causing more damage. I was only doing about 15mph as I traversed some speed bumps about 25 yards before and there were some further on so. Ironically, had I been doing say 20mph I might have got passed before he hit me. Took some pics and expect to post tomorrow.

Coincidentally, both cars are insured with AXA, so I hope they will play fair.

Fortunately, nobody was hurt. Anybody know where I can buy a used Challenger 2--- oh maybe not, they are probably on route for NATO border with Russia. Perhaps a Humvee if they can be had with RHD!

Spottedlaurel · May 5, 2022

Sorry to read this Barry. Hopefully no issue with the other party admitting liability.

Sounds like it will be an expensive repair, fingers crossed they can get the parts OK and you aren't without it for too long.

stringbender · May 5, 2022

44 minutes ago, Spottedlaurel said:

Sorry to read this Barry. Hopefully no issue with the other party admitting liability.

Sorry as well Barry. I remember the problems you had last time. Can't see the other party having a leg to stand on - unless they try to prove you were driving sideways at them !

Alan

royoftherovers · May 5, 2022

6 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

Having previously been hit at the back and got over all the hassle that involved, a car came out of a side street early this evening and was driven into the side of me. I was on a main road. The other car, Audi as previously, was turning left and his offside front bumper and headlamp was badly damaged. The damage to my car was to the rear of my nearside front wing, the frame behind it and the leading edge of the passenger front door with some scraping down most of the remaining nearside. So it was clear that the Audi was driven into me as I was partially past it. My wife was in the front passenger seat and had to climb over to my side and exit by my door as hers wouldn't open without using considerable force and likely causing more damage. I was only doing about 15mph as I traversed some speed bumps about 25 yards before and there were some further on so. Ironically, had I been doing say 20mph I might have got passed before he hit me. Took some pics and expect to post tomorrow.

Coincidentally, both cars are insured with AXA, so I hope they will play fair.

Fortunately, nobody was hurt. Anybody know where I can buy a used Challenger 2--- oh maybe not, they are probably on route for NATO border with Russia. Perhaps a Humvee if they can be had with RHD!

Very sorry to read that Barry. Coming from a Minor Road and Entering a Major Road requires certain obligations to be fulfilled and it is clear from reading the script that the Audi driver did not observe the Rules of the Highway.

I hope it is all resolved quickly and to your complete satisfaction. If you have not done so and if at all possible you and your wife should have medical checkups completed asap.

Barry14UK · May 6, 2022

Appreciate commiserations. So much hassle and a blot on ones driving record as some insurers consider you are an increased risk even though not the guilty party. I informed brokers and insurers as one is obliged to do, at least for information. I have contacted the Claim Management company recommended by Lexus Snows Repair Centre who are happy to work on the basis that I was not at fault, will collect my car and repair it to Lexus standard and then return it. Meanwhile they will provide a comparable car, although this might not be a Lexus, so it will be interesting to see what the loaner will be. Pics to follow.

Barry14UK · May 6, 2022

IMG_0105

royoftherovers · May 6, 2022

4 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

Appreciate commiserations. So much hassle and a blot on ones driving record as some insurers consider you are an increased risk even though not the guilty party. I informed brokers and insurers as one is obliged to do, at least for information. I have contacted the Claim Management company recommended by Lexus Snows Repair Centre who are happy to work on the basis that I was not at fault, will collect my car and repair it to Lexus standard and then return it. Meanwhile they will provide a comparable car, although this might not be a Lexus, so it will be interesting to see what the loaner will be. Pics to follow.

Why use a Claim Management Company instead of your Insurance Company Barry ?

Barry14UK · May 6, 2022

9 hours ago, royoftherovers said:

Why use a Claim Management Company instead of your Insurance Company Barry ?

Hi John,

It's a good question because there are pros and cons for using a management company which the RAC state here. https://www.rac.co.uk/business/news-advice/accident-management-companies You and the management company need to be convinced on the basis of supporting photographic damage to vehicles and circumstances that you have a good case as they provide a car immediately and take steps to process claim without any upfront charge to claimant provided you use a reputable one. (I used the one recommended by Lexus Snows, being the one I used when previously rear ended and they had all my details from then). I need a car quicky as I plan to visit my daughter some 220 miles away next week and attend the funeral of my best friend while there. I am not sure I would have got a car so readily through AXA who are also the at fault's insurers. My policy did not include the provision of a loan car and there was less certainty that AXA would provide one, at least without delay, to facilitate the visit to my daughter.

Although I don't think it will apply in this case, I think a Claim Management Company is in a stronger position to negotiate on a client's behalf if a car is written off or for other aspects. The fact that so many of these companies are flourishing, means that they are becoming more popular, although care needs to be taken to ensure you get a good one.

royoftherovers · May 6, 2022

47 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

Hi John,

It's a good question because there are pros and cons for using a management company which the RAC state here. https://www.rac.co.uk/business/news-advice/accident-management-companies You and the management company need to be convinced on the basis of supporting photographic damage to vehicles and circumstances that you have a good case as they provide a car immediately and take steps to process claim without any upfront charge to claimant provided you use a reputable one. (I used the one recommended by Lexus Snows, being the one I used when previously rear ended and they had all my details from then). I need a car quicky as I plan to visit my daughter some 220 miles away next week and attend the funeral of my best friend while there. I am not sure I would have got a car so readily through AXA who are also the at fault's insurers. My policy did not include the provision of a loan car and there was less certainty that AXA would provide one, at least without delay, to facilitate the visit to my daughter.

Although I don't think it will apply in this case, I think a Claim Management Company is in a stronger position to negotiate on a client's behalf if a car is written off or for other aspects. The fact that so many of these companies are flourishing, means that they are becoming more popular, although care needs to be taken to ensure you get a good one.

All eminently sensible from your perspective Barry and I wish you well.

Please keep us all informed as to how the claim develops as this is clearly not in the realm of a 50/50 Settlement, although I somehow cannot see an Audi driver owning up to the facts.

Just my view Barry,based upon my personal experience of Audi drivers and separately, a family member suffering a 50/50 settlement in an incident which was the fault of another.

steve2006 · May 6, 2022

This is where a dash cam would have provided evidence in your favour.

Only had dealings with a Claims Management Company once when my old 94 was written off.

They collected the car which they took to their Chesterfield site and as promised left me a loan car.....a VW Polo and subsequently wrote off the Celsior.

The 3rd party insurers phoned me up directly offered me a decent settlement after a short haggle and another grand each for myself and my Mother who was also in the car at the time of the accident and allowed me to retain salvage for free.

This was on the basis that I returned the loan car ASAP ( I assume they were being charged a fortune for it and was too embarrassed to drive it so bought a cheap GS300 for transport)

I rang the CMC told them to collect their loaner and return my car.

After a bit of a squabble “ We don’t normally return salvage” the Celsior was returned, the Polo collected, Celsior was repaired locally ( the body shop owner bought the GS300 off me for the same money I paid for it) and we had a nice holiday.

Barry14UK · May 7, 2022

Point taken about having dashcam, one of a number of things not got round to doing for diverse reasons but will now prioritise.

As regards scrap, when my car was hit previously and the exhaust severely damaged, I asked for the central cat which was OK, so I could have made available to somebody else but was told all replaced components had to be scrapped regardless of the fact they may have included serviceable parts, and that they were no longer mine. This seems a shame. Whether in reality this always happens is a matter of conjecture! I know a lot of lightly damaged body parts that at one time would have been brought back to shape and for example doors that were worse were sometimes reskinned externally. Done it myself years ago . Today, they generally just discard damaged components and replace these with new. Depending on the severity of damage and circumstances, it can work well buying as scrap, fixing yourself using good used parts from breakers where parts from scrapper were more severely damaged. Still have different types of welding equipment and tools to do this but lack the motivation and penury that drove this at the time.

I know from a previous experience that some Insurance companies will only allow new parts to be fitted which drives up the cost to the extent that a few items can cause a car to be written off. My granddaughter was hit by another driver and was told that if she accepted pattern parts, they would repair her car but would not pay for genuine ones, so ended up with some poorly fitted panels to avoid it being written off. (It was a small car and she had to have an automatic and to acquire it we had gone a considerable distance, as automatic versions were pretty rare).

Barry14UK · May 13, 2022

I was promised a loan car by the claim management company suggested by Lexus Snows as they accepted on the basis of the photographs I provided that I was not at fault. They subsequently withdrew this offer because the the other party insisted he was not at fault and had found a witness. (The accident happened almost outside his house and let me put it this way, he has now found very supportive neighbours!) So I reverted to the Brokers who arranged my policy with AXA. The Brokers claim line puts one directly though to AUXILLIS, another claim management company. Notwithstanding, the other party disputing being at fault, AUXILLIS agreed to provide a car they considered I was not at fault. However, by that time it was too late to get the car for the planned journey from Devon to my daughter in Surrey on 11th May and onward to a funeral in Kent on 12th May.

In the circumstances, as my car was still drivable I decided to use it. My wife sat in the back as the front passengers door gruched at it opened and would not open succulently to permit entry or egress.

We had a pretty easy except for a loose tyre tread from somewhere making it's way towards me so I had to push harder on the loud peddle to avoid it. Also, the journey was uncomfortable because hot air rather than cold was being delivered through vents notwithstanding I dropped the temperature set on both sides, maximised fan settings, ensured the air settings were coldest with rotary controls and air was on in menu. I am wondering if the bang to my car could have caused a leak in the aircon system, something else to be investigated!

The plan is to visit my brother and his wife tomorrow in Kent and then return to Devon on Sunday. Collection of my car and provision of a loan car will follow on Monday next.

Picture of other parties car with broken headlight and damaged bumper. How he reckons I hit him with the impact on the extreme wing and leading edge of my front passenger door with no frontal damage to my car is a feeble 'try on'.

PCM · May 13, 2022

I suppose... you could offer to take 'him' to caught and mention the word, 'perjury'.

Feel for you, either way.

Herbie · May 13, 2022

59 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

Also, the journey was uncomfortable because hot air rather than cold was being delivered through vents notwithstanding I dropped the temperature set on both sides, maximised fan settings, ensured the air settings were coldest with rotary controls and air was on in menu. I am wondering if the bang to my car could have caused a leak in the aircon system, something else to be investigated!

If there is a leak of refrigerant, when the pressure drops to a certain value the aircon system will cease to operate in order to prevent any (further) damage.

royoftherovers · May 13, 2022

5 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

I was promised a loan car by the claim management company suggested by Lexus Snows as they accepted on the basis of the photographs I provided that I was not at fault. They subsequently withdrew this offer because the the other party insisted he was not at fault and had found a witness. (The accident happened almost outside his house and let me put it this way, he has now found very supportive neighbours!) So I reverted to the Brokers who arranged my policy with AXA. The Brokers claim line puts one directly though to AUXILLIS, another claim management company. Notwithstanding, the other party disputing being at fault, AUXILLIS agreed to provide a car they considered I was not at fault. However, by that time it was too late to get the car for the planned journey from Devon to my daughter in Surrey on 11th May and onward to a funeral in Kent on 12th May.

In the circumstances, as my car was still drivable I decided to use it. My wife sat in the back as the front passengers door gruched at it opened and would not open succulently to permit entry or egress.

We had a pretty easy except for a loose tyre tread from somewhere making it's way towards me so I had to push harder on the loud peddle to avoid it. Also, the journey was uncomfortable because hot air rather than cold was being delivered through vents notwithstanding I dropped the temperature set on both sides, maximised fan settings, ensured the air settings were coldest with rotary controls and air was on in menu. I am wondering if the bang to my car could have caused a leak in the aircon system, something else to be investigated!

The plan is to visit my brother and his wife tomorrow in Kent and then return to Devon on Sunday. Collection of my car and provision of a loan car will follow on Monday next.

Picture of other parties car with broken headlight and damaged bumper. How he reckons I hit him with the impact on the extreme wing and leading edge of my front passenger door with no frontal damage to my car is a feeble 'try on'.

Sorry to read that Barrie. It seems that my earlier post might have been somewhat prophetic.

MY advice would be;

1. stick to the facts

2.use your knowledge of the Highway Code to interpret those facts

3. use your insurance company

4. get that medical examination pronto.

I wish you the very best of fortune.

stringbender · May 14, 2022

How awful for you Barry. I hope this all gets settled and you are exonerated.

Just shows what people are like but your insurance company must be able to see from the damage that the other party is at fault and that you are completely innocent.

Alan

08ISF · May 14, 2022

These things are always awful, especially when the other party will not put their hands up to it. The complication here might be that both cars are insured with the same company. Some insurance companies are lazy and faced with conflicting accounts will simply try and treat it as knock for knock. That way they get two lots of excess deducted and two customers to charge more for the next few years.

To my mind if someone is entering a main road from a side road and runs into the side of another car it is down to them, despite what so called "witnesses" might say. If your insurer starts the knock for knock argument they need to be reminded forcefully of the contract they have with you.

If they still won't play you can refer it upwards to the ombudsman or take them to court. A friend of mine had a guy reverse into the side of him while he was stationary and the insurers tried to go for knock for knock. He took them to court and won as the judge could see how the damage was caused from the photos. You might also find that witnesses memories become vague when faced with the prospect of lying to a court. Hope this works out for you.

Edited May 14, 2022 by 08ISF
spelling error

royoftherovers · May 14, 2022

6 minutes ago, 08ISF said:

These things are always awful, especially when the other party will not put their hands up to it. The complication here might be that both cars are insured with the same company. Some insurance companies are lazy and faced with conflicting accounts will simply try and treat it as knock for knock. That way they get two lots of excess deducted and two customers to charge more for the next few years.

To my mind if someone is entering a main road from a side road and runs into the side of another car it is down to them, despite what so called "witnesses" might say. If your insurer starts the knock for knock argument they need to be reminded forcefully of the contract they have with you.

If they still won't play you can refer it upwards to the ombudsman or take them to court. A friend of mine had a guy reverse into the side of him while he was stationary and the insurers tried to go for knock for knock. He took them to court and won as the judge could see how the damage was caused from the photos. You might also find that witnesses memories become vague when faced with the prospect of lying to a court. Hope this works out for you.

A good contribution from another sensible member.

Barry14UK · May 14, 2022

Thanks to all that replied. It was in my mind that as we are both with the same insurers and they may want to settle on a 50/50 fault basis but I would certainly fight such an outcome.

Barry14UK · June 2, 2022

Collected my armchair on wheels yesterday, repaired with genuine Lexus parts. The panel gaps are very good and the paint has been matched well, particularly as car is now 6+ years old. The paint finish is not quite as smooth as the original but not far off and certainly much better than on many a new car.

The accident management company will only take a case if they consider you are not at fault and it did mean they bore all upfront cost so I did not have to pay my excess and then claim it back. I could have had a loan car but decided against it. On the few occasions I really needed a car I got a cab which was much less costly for the insurers and meant I was not paying for petrol as the cab costs, duly receipted, will be refunded.

The major repairers I used also hold several sale franchises for cars. This did include one for Mitsubishi but with their withdrawal from the UK, they have replaced it with a Hyundai one. I took the opportunity to sit in the Ionic 5, which is a practical and spacious car with charging that leaves most of the competition behind. However, getting back into the RX afterwards, felt like moving out of Ikea into a VIP lounge, not that there there is anything wrong with Ikea but like it, the Ionic 5 feels budget, but is selling well.

Having been hit twice in two years when I was not at fault, has caused some apprehension about it happening again but this will no doubt reduce over time.

royoftherovers · June 2, 2022

47 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

Collected my armchair on wheels yesterday, repaired with genuine Lexus parts. The panel gaps are very good and the paint has been matched well, particularly as car is now 6+ years old. The paint finish is not quite as smooth as the original but not far off and certainly much better than on many a new car.

The accident management company will only take a case if they consider you are not at fault and it did mean they bore all upfront cost so I did not have to pay my excess and then claim it back. I could have had a loan car but decided against it. On the few occasions I really needed a car I got a cab which was much less costly for the insurers and meant I was not paying for petrol as the cab costs, duly receipted, will be refunded.

The major repairers I used also hold several sale franchises for cars. This did include one for Mitsubishi but with their withdrawal from the UK, they have replaced it with a Hyundai one. I took the opportunity to sit in the Ionic 5, which is a practical and spacious car with charging that leaves most of the competition behind. However, getting back into the RX afterwards, felt like moving out of Ikea into a VIP lounge, not that there there is anything wrong with Ikea but like it, the Ionic 5 feels budget, but is selling well.

Having been hit twice in two years when I was not at fault, has caused some apprehension about it happening again but this will no doubt reduce over time.

Thanks Barry. If you are pleased then so are we.

Did the Insurance Company find in your favour ?

Barry14UK · June 2, 2022

Thank you John.

I provided AXA with with comprehensive details, plans and photographs relating to the accident, FOR INFORMATION ONLY. The Accident Management Company deal with all aspects of the claim with AXA (Insurers for the other party and for me, so in the circumstances, the presumption is that the other driver was at fault. Now that I have concluded my out of pocket expenses, I will forward these to the Accident Management company so they can present these to AXA, along with their fee. So as far as I am aware, who was at fault is still in abeyance. However, in the unlikely case that AXA do not completely exonerate me, they will contest this with AXA on my behalf. I will want this in writing but don't expect to receive confirmation until the claim has been finally settled. Fortunately, nobody suffered injury due to very slow speed of both cars, as I had only just passed over speed humps some 25 or so yards prior to the accident. In cases where there are injuries and treatment to take into consideration settlement can be delayed but not here.

royoftherovers · June 2, 2022

28 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

Thank you John.

I provided AXA with with comprehensive details, plans and photographs relating to the accident, FOR INFORMATION ONLY. The Accident Management Company deal with all aspects of the claim with AXA (Insurers for the other party and for me, so in the circumstances, the presumption is that the other driver was at fault. Now that I have concluded my out of pocket expenses, I will forward these to the Accident Management company so they can present these to AXA, along with their fee. So as far as I am aware, who was at fault is still in abeyance. However, in the unlikely case that AXA do not completely exonerate me, they will contest this with AXA on my behalf. I will want this in writing but don't expect to receive confirmation until the claim has been finally settled. Fortunately, nobody suffered injury due to very slow speed of both cars, as I had only just passed over speed humps some 25 or so yards prior to the accident. In cases where there are injuries and treatment to take into consideration settlement can be delayed but not here.

Thanks very much Barry. That just about clears it up.It`s difficult to see the other guy getting anything unless he swears blind that you were indicating to go left ! God forbid !!

Illogan · June 3, 2022

Delighted that you've had the armchair returned Barry, - thank you for your detailed précis of all that you've been through so far, it always helps the rest of us to understand some of the obtuse processes of the insurance industry.

Fingers crossed for an healthy resolution to the issue.