Shutting down peak hours EV charging

[Phil xxkr]

Just watched a fascinating YT from eFixx outlining a Bill going through parliament designed to change behaviours for EV owners. Essentially it's to discourage charging during peak hours so whilst not mandatory right now the direction seems pretty clear. Add that to Kwasi Kwarteng asking for 2 coal fired stations not to shut down in September as planned then we could be in for an interesting winter 😱

[Boxbrownie]

And from June it will be illegal to sell dumb chargers, so eventually the smart EVSEs will be able to be throttled or even turned off at peak times via online instructions.

 

Oh and of course Smart Meters are only to save us money 🤣

[Phil xxkr]

7 minutes ago, Boxbrownie said:

And from June it will be illegal to sell dumb chargers, so eventually the smart EVSEs will be able to be throttled or even turned off at peak times via online instructions.

 

Oh and of course Smart Meters are only to save us money 🤣

Yeah right 😅, that will qualify for the biggest lies in history alongside, yes I'll still love you in the morning and no I won't........ 😎

[Linas.P]

That was obvious from the beginning, UK just does not have infrastructure to support everyone using BEV... so it rationing in inevitable, no matter what ecomentalists and EVangelists are saying. We are onto dystopian future for sure!

[Herbie]

In a domestic setting the whole reason for smart meters to exist is to allow micromanagement of supply and demand. They already phone home once or twice a day but that's now being ramped up to every 30 minutes (I've also heard that every 5 minutes is on the cards too) and peak times will cost more than off-peak.

I suppose the same will apply to EV chargers at supermarkets, service stations or wherever as well.

[Boxbrownie]

22 hours ago, Herbie said:

In a domestic setting the whole reason for smart meters to exist is to allow micromanagement of supply and demand. They already phone home once or twice a day but that's now being ramped up to every 30 minutes (I've also heard that every 5 minutes is on the cards too) and peak times will cost more than off-peak.

.

Odd that little bit wasn’t in the terms and conditions when signing up……..no, no they are saving us money 🤣

 

The biggest insult is they think we are too dumb to realise what’s happening.

[Linas.P]

23 hours ago, Herbie said:

In a domestic setting the whole reason for smart meters to exist is to allow micromanagement of supply and demand. They already phone home once or twice a day but that's now being ramped up to every 30 minutes (I've also heard that every 5 minutes is on the cards too) and peak times will cost more than off-peak.

I suppose the same will apply to EV chargers at supermarkets, service stations or wherever as well.

Yes that is what they call "saving" - so they will allow us to use electricity at reasonable cost during unsociable hours. Obviously, it was "our mistake" that we misunderstood what "smart meter" meant. We thought electricity will cost the same, but will be discounted off peak - no no no... the price remain the same off peak, they just going to increase peak power price 10 fold. 

Actually first time in my life I had to challenge EON (who provides heating) because I used just to shred renewal letters from them, it was always increasing by amount of inflation, and it would be the case will all suppliers (sadly not with salary for everyone) so there was no point to even look at it. But this time I looked at the letter and without shame it said your heating kwh will increase from 8.97p to 16.97p !!! In any other time it would not be worth mentioning, but EON has monopoly in our estate, meaning I can't switch at all, so when they literally double the price this is especially annoying. I am thinking to sue them on the basis that as monopolist they should be further regulated, but doubt anything comes out of it. Maybe threat of court case going to make them to offer me "special discount".. who knows... 

[Phil xxkr]

7 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Yes that is what they call "saving" - so they will allow us to use electricity at reasonable cost during unsociable hours. Obviously, it was "our mistake" that we misunderstood what "smart meter" meant. We thought electricity will cost the same, but will be discounted off peak - no no no... the price remain the same off peak, they just going to increase peak power price 10 fold. 

Actually first time in my life I had to challenge EON (who provides heating) because I used just to shred renewal letters from them, it was always increasing by amount of inflation, and it would be the case will all suppliers (sadly not with salary for everyone) so there was no point to even look at it. But this time I looked at the letter and without shame it said your heating kwh will increase from 8.97p to 16.97p !!! In any other time it would not be worth mentioning, but EON has monopoly in our estate, meaning I can't switch at all, so when they literally double the price this is especially annoying. I am thinking to sue them on the basis that as monopolist they should be further regulated, but doubt anything comes out of it. Maybe threat of court case going to make them to offer me "special discount".. who knows... 

Well 16.97 is cheaper than our over night cheap economy 7 rate - try 33p for a day rate 🤯. Anyway I can buy from you 🤔

[Phil xxkr]

Just now, Phil xxkr said:

Well 16.97 is cheaper than our over night cheap economy 7 rate - try 33p for a day rate 🤯. Anyway I can buy from you 🤔

Oh and 45 p a day standing charge 🤯🤯🤯

[Malc]

On 5/3/2022 at 11:01 AM, Boxbrownie said:

Oh and of course Smart Meters are only to save us money 🤣

save us from using and buying the energy ...............  simply by TURNING us OFF 

Malc

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

save us from using and buying the energy ...............  simply by TURNING us OFF 

Malc

That will also happen. They already have the ability to remotely control the meters and if demand is such that blackouts are iminent then they will use 'rolling blackouts' to manage the balance.

[Linas.P]

6 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Well 16.97 is cheaper than our over night cheap economy 7 rate - try 33p for a day rate 🤯. Anyway I can buy from you 🤔

That is "heat Kwh" price, not electricity price.

[Phil xxkr]

6 hours ago, Linas.P said:

That is "heat Kwh" price, not electricity price.

As in my electric hot water immersion heater 👍

[Malc]

when I was a lad we had a coke boiler in the kitchen working 24/7 to not just heat the kitchen and much of our ground floor BUT also to heat the hot water tank directly above in the bathroom ...... uninsulated of course coz in those bygone days the heat from the tank warmed the bedrooms too in winter 

ah, those bygone happy cheap energy days .......... we're all so cossetted these days methinks ........  put on another jumper and get a scraper to get the ice off the insides of the bedroom windows in the morning 

Malc

[Linas.P]

3 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

As in my electric hot water immersion heater 👍

Sounds pricey! Surely soon you only going to be able to use it at night... or whenever government deems necessary.

[Phil xxkr]

21 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Sounds pricey! Surely soon you only going to be able to use it at night... or whenever government deems necessary.

Well I am getting solar PV installed soon so that will sort the hot water out. But I can see the end of cheap overnight rates in favour of 24 x 7 demand LED pricing which should however help me with Battery storage 

[Linas.P]

I am glad to hear you have options... not so much the case for like 70% of population living in the apartments and dependent on whatever policy is thrown at them (good food four thought - perhaps I should invest in some freehold house in Durham).

Not as well, that there were plans to regulate private solar with "smart meters" e.g. you could be "compelled" to sell your own energy during peak times rather than using it yourself. I am not sure if this applies for solar panels you own yourself outright or only the types of deals where companies install them "for free", but then keep the rights for 10 years. In any case the proposal was that EVERYTHING goes through "smart meter" first, and smart meter decides what energy should go where and for what price. Which In theory could mean that "smart meter" decides that your "clean" energy should go to Bob in Scotland at rate X, but when you decide to have a hot shower it decides you will purchase energy from local power plant at rate Y... and obviously rate Y can be higher than rate X.

Same principle for BEV grid power - it may even be the case that energy is not only rationed, but "smart meter" or "smart charger" will decide that they will use your car Battery power to charge another car, or indeed power Bob's lawn mower! Sorry it is kind of long-winded explanation, but my point was - "smart meter" overlord could be the thing which decides what you pay and energy which you think you own... you don't own despite literally having solar panels on your roof... and as for BEV - it may even be the case that you will find less power in your Battery than when you plugged your car in! (safe to say - if you have ~60-80% better leave it unplugged!).  

[PaulWhitt20]

We have a smart meter and it cannot control which circuits are in use. It could only change the price dependent on time or whole house current (ampage) usage. It cannot cut supply off to the house.

In any case I would have thought that it would not be legal to turn peoples electricity off at certain times, the contents of the fridge/freezer would go off, not to mention no lights to see where you are going at night. The safety aspect is a minefield.

[Moleman]

7 minutes ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

We have a smart meter and it cannot control which circuits are in use. It could only change the price dependent on time or whole house current (ampage) usage. It cannot cut supply off to the house.

In any case I would have thought that it would not be legal to turn peoples electricity off at certain times, the contents of the fridge/freezer would go off, not to mention no lights to see where you are going at night. The safety aspect is a minefield.

All Digital smart meters have an electronic disconnect switch that allows the utility company to shut down electricity remotely. 

It is currently legal in the UK if they give you notice. If no notice is given you may claim compensation.

[Herbie]

1 minute ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

We have a smart meter and it cannot control which circuits are in use. It could only change the price dependent on time or whole house current (ampage) usage. It cannot cut supply off to the house.

<pantomime voice> Oh yes it can! </pantomime voice>

I'm afraid that turning off the supply is one of the basic protocols for smart meters.

Of course, it can't control the individual circuits, it's just a 'whole house supply on/off' variable, but the capability is there. As far as I know they haven't used it yet because there are huge implications for people using medical equipment in the house and so on, and I think they're still trying to work out the legalities and practicalities of it all.

To be honest I don't think it'll ever be needed domestically, because a lot of commercial and industrial high-consumption users often take a deal to have preferential rates on the understanding that if push comes to shove, they will reduce demand when requested to do so.

 

[Boxbrownie]

8 hours ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

We have a smart meter and it cannot control which circuits are in use. It could only change the price dependent on time or whole house current (ampage) usage. It cannot cut supply off to the house.

In any case I would have thought that it would not be legal to turn peoples electricity off at certain times, the contents of the fridge/freezer would go off, not to mention no lights to see where you are going at night. The safety aspect is a minefield.

Added to the previous answers, many modern appliances are “smart enabled” items such as fridge/freezers and even washing machines can and will be able to “judge” when they actually need the power (more for fridge and freezers to enable shut down when door has been shut for a specified time, or time of the day and usage pattern obviously temperature LED.

EV chargers will be able to send data back to the supplier to enable spot fuel charging, which is why from June this year it will be illegal to sell a “dumb” charger, but luckily not illegal to fit them!  Reminds me of electric scooters, not illegal to sell them but just illegal to ride them anywhere but private land (although likely to change soon, heaven help us….they cannot even control them and riders when it’s just about illegal to ride them anywhere).

[Boxbrownie]

8 hours ago, Herbie said:

As far as I know they haven't used it yet because there are huge implications for people using medical equipment in the house and so on, and I think they're still trying to work out the legalities and practicalities of it all.

 

 

Funny you should say that, we recently were due to have a smart gas and electric meter fitted and on the form it mentioned reasons the supply cannot be shut off and I filled in the fact my mother has a hospital bed with an air mattress (which cannot be without power for more than 15 minutes) and the answer was they cannot fit the smart electric meter because the power needs to be off for longer and they have no way to -rovide a temporary back up supply, the smart gas meter was fitted because it only needed a power break for a few minutes while the sender was fitted, not that it was any good as in our area it has no signal so they have not been getting readings for the past month or so, but have only asked for electric readings!  You couldn’t make it up….talk about disjointed.

[PaulWhitt20]

This is all getting quite scary. 
 

[Malc]

I have an electric smart meter and no gas smart meter .....  to fit a gas one they would have to demolish part of the corner internal house wall of the room meter cupboard to get to the pipework proper .....  they decided to leave the existing gas non-smart meter in situ ......  suits me either way tbh

and freezers with electric ( of course )  can last frozen inside for many hours without power if the door's unopened ............  that's what I understand when we get the rare power cut 

Is it all really a major issue ?  

Just don't see how they can possibly actually save us money   ......  nor cost us money unless it's going haywire and kaput  and out of control ...  but then any meter can do that surely ..  not just a very un-smart,  smart meter 

or have I missed summat serious in these arguments 

Malc

[Moleman]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

Just don't see how they can possibly actually save us money   ......  nor cost us money unless it's going haywire and kaput  and out of control ...  but then any meter can do that surely ..  not just a very un-smart,  smart meter 

or have I missed summat serious in these arguments 

Malc

Spot on, but the lie was first to save you money. Strange how that has changed over time to saving the planet. Lies; Damn Lies and Government Lies.