Comment from a Scheissewagen owner

[Mincey]

I had the pleasure of taking a colleague on a 250 mile round trip in Betsy last week. On the way back we started talking about transmissions. He has one of those awful Audi things with DSG transmission. "The gearbox in this car is very smooth" he said, "it's not one of those cvt jobs is it?". "Mais oui!" I replied, practicing my French for some unknown reason. "But," he replied "I've been in colleague A's Toyota Corolla and colleague B's Toyota CRV, and the CVTs in their cars are awful, waily, loud things". "But this is a Lexus." I replied, and the conversation was quickly moved on to other things.

[steve2006]

“Lexus in pursuit of that perfect gear change” 😀 

[Spacewagon52]

I wonder if it is more to do with the way a car is driven?

If you floor my 400h, then the revs do go high for a short period, as with all CVT transmissions. The smaller the engine, the more this is pronounced? 

The sensation of the CVT transmission, when under load, is like a manual car's clutch slipping. I was just wondering if it gives the impression, to someone not familiar with the CVT, that power is being wasted? The 0-60 times of course challenge that false assumption.

[wharfhouse]

25 minutes ago, Spacewagon52 said:

I wonder if it is more to do with the way a car is driven?

If you floor my 400h, then the revs do go high for a short period, as with all CVT transmissions. The smaller the engine, the more this is pronounced? 

The sensation of the CVT transmission, when under load, is like a manual car's clutch slipping. I was just wondering if it gives the impression, to someone not familiar with the CVT, that power is being wasted? The 0-60 times of course challenge that false assumption.

Similarly though, if you floor the throttle in a traditional autobox the gearbox first takes some time to swap down a few cogs then the engine revs rise to max torque area (so maybe 4k - 5k revs) and the only real difference is the e-cvt revs rise immediately (not having to wait for the gears to swap) and then stay high if you keep your foot planted rather than the inefficient gear swapping and engine coming off peak torque of a normal autobox. It's "different" but not "wrong" it's only to do with what we are most accustomed to. I now find normal autoboxes unpleasant in the way they work and am happy to go back to the e-cvt (though haven't tried a traditional cvt to compare how that feels only the Lexus / Toyota variety). As you say the general public (and let's face it many journalists) don't understand or appreciate the efficiency of the cvt compared to a box of cogs. 

[First_Lexus]

3 hours ago, Mincey said:

He has one of those awful Audi things with DSG transmission

I had one of those once, fooled into believing it would be amazing by the motoring press, and bought a VW Tiguan. It was awful - the hesitancy could be downright dangerous - and then like many others it exploded when at 40k miles and just less than three years old.

At least the motoring press seem to be less enthusiastic about DSG than once they were. I’ve read a few reviews in recent months where the hesitancy and jerky nature (especially the VAG variety) has been highlighted.

I certainly wouldn’t want a DSG again. eCVT suits me and the way I drive perfectly. Smoooooth and wafty!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

I wonder if it is more to do with the way a car is driven?

If you floor my 400h, then the revs do go high for a short period, as with all CVT transmissions. The smaller the engine, the more this is pronounced? 

The sensation of the CVT transmission, when under load, is like a manual car's clutch slipping. I was just wondering if it gives the impression, to someone not familiar with the CVT, that power is being wasted? The 0-60 times of course challenge that false assumption.

I haven’t driven a RX400h but the ES hybrid system is the 4th generation one whilst the RX400h is, I believe, 1st generation. Each generation claims better responsiveness etc so I would expect the ES to be a smoother drive

[Marko89]

7 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

I wonder if it is more to do with the way a car is driven?

If you floor my 400h, then the revs do go high for a short period, as with all CVT transmissions. The smaller the engine, the more this is pronounced? 

The sensation of the CVT transmission, when under load, is like a manual car's clutch slipping. I was just wondering if it gives the impression, to someone not familiar with the CVT, that power is being wasted? The 0-60 times of course challenge that false assumption.

From the perspective of having sold Toyota's for about a year back in 2017. The smaller the engine the less refined they were. I think there are two causes. 

Firstly the smaller engine having to work closer to their limits more often. The second part is the lack of sound insulation the lower down the range you go. The Yaris 1.5 was like driving a boat if you asked for anything more than dawdle pace. The Auris wasn't too bad with the 1.8, however the C-HR was pretty poor with the same setup. 

Lexus have obviously made a point of working hard on refinement with the ES300h. I rarely notice the engine moo unless climbing steep hills or overtaking. Even then it is nowhere near what you'd think reading the reviews. The mainstream motoring press in my opinion are incredibly lazy with their reviews. VAG also pay for a ton of advertising space which helps keep them afloat.

Some of the worst cars I've had were from the VAG stable, albeit the worst by some stretch with a 2016 Mini Clubman.

[Alan305]

Last time I flew in a jet the pilot appeared to apply full throttle on take of. There was no indication of any gear changes or drop in engine revs.

Could that be the most efficient?

Who would have guessed.

[dutchie01]

In this case the explanation is most likely engine power and sound isolation.( its a Lexus)  When the engine is powerful enough, has enough torque, there is no need to floor the throttle. I just loved the gearbox in my IS300H and had a ES for a day and that is clearly newer generation much smoother. Absolutely great in dense traffic, effortless wafting with every now and then a short tap on the throttle. ( unless of course you are a youtuber doing a "test", then you need to look into the camera and floor the throttle until Vmax and make a droopy face). 

On the other end of the CVT spectrum is the Prius, remember those? No power no torque so here the gearbox will have to look for power high up in the revband.

[steve2006]

8 minutes ago, Alan305 said:

Last time I flew in a jet the pilot appeared to apply full throttle on take of. There was no indication of any gear changes or drop in engine revs.

Could that be the most efficient?

Who would have guessed.

Perhaps not when you consider an Airbus 320 burns around 5 gallons of fuel per hour per seat, 2.5 tonnes an hour and that’s at cruise not take off 😀.

[e-yes]

On 5/2/2022 at 9:44 AM, Mincey said:

 "But this is a Lexus." I replied, and the conversation was quickly moved on to other things.