Lexus RZ revealed

talaipwros · April 13, 2023

On 4/11/2023 at 9:14 PM, wivenhoe said:

But will they insulate you from the financial shock of £ 75k for 200 actual miles range ! I should find out soon as mine is in transit !

160 actual miles

RadicalCoupe-Fuji · April 13, 2023

Who regularly does 200+ mile trips & is even looking at ev's? I always think they are perfect for people who have short commutes or live in cities.

DBIZO · April 13, 2023

11 hours ago, RadicalCoupe-Fuji said:

Who regularly does 200+ mile trips & is even looking at ev's? I always think they are perfect for people who have short commutes or live in cities.

My advice is not try and engage in that debate, it's unwinnable. Faithful EV drivers will tell you it's all fine and dandy because you'll want to stop anyway for a break, have a bite etc, and the car can charge from 20 to 80% in 30 minutes - and why wouldn't you want to stop exactly where the charging station is. In the EV world, nothing ever goes wrong, there is always available and working charging stations somewhere close enough, and you're never in a hurry, it's never too cold, and you never really want to go fast.

wivenhoe · April 13, 2023

As I buy my cars, my concern is what the residual will be in the future. An earlier post said what the PCP is calculated on, but what will a ‘prestige’ car with a real range of max 200 miles be worth when compared to the numerous say Teslas, Genesis etc.

I understand that the Tesla isn’t comparable for fit and finish but would a used buyer or the market be willing to pay £ 15k more for a 2 / 3 year old car.

RadicalCoupe-Fuji · April 13, 2023

Tesla owners have blasted car charging chaos across the UK during the Christmas holiday with dozens of electric vehicles forced to wait in three hour queues. Cars were logjammed up and down the country, with snaking queues spotted in Hertfordshire, Cumbria, Westmorland and Telford.28 Dec 2022

F.A. · April 14, 2023

10 hours ago, DBIZO said:

My advice is not try and engage in that debate, it's unwinnable. Faithful EV drivers will tell you it's all fine and dandy because you'll want to stop anyway for a break, have a bite etc, and the car can charge from 20 to 80% in 30 minutes - and why wouldn't you want to stop exactly where the charging station is. In the EV world, nothing ever goes wrong, there is always available and working charging stations somewhere close enough, and you're never in a hurry, it's never too cold, and you never really want to go fast.

Yes, EVs are not for everyone, but for people who cover low mileages and can afford/ justify the extra purchase costs, they may be ideal if they can charge at home. For the business user, who doesn’t need to be driving the lengths of the country, the current benefits are too good to ignore. We certainly purchased one for this reason, with our eyes open and our expectations at an achievable level and whilst it’s still early days, we have been very impressed. We use it as our family car and whilst we never cover more than 200 miles in one hit, I’ve used certain public chargers (Ionity Shell Recharge and MFG) to top the car up whilst we are out and have been pleasantly surprised how reliable and easy they have been to use. I am fully aware though that this is more to do with luck than anything else and it’s only time before we meet a broken one!
It does take a bit more planning for longer journeys, but for everyday use, being able to charge at home or work is key. Regarding never really needing to go fast, well we haven’t adapted our driving style to eek out more kw/hr and our Electrified GV70 is certainly every bit as fast as our GSF to the legal limits. It’s just with less drama. In fact I would think twice about attempting a traffic light Grand Prix against my wife, especially in damp conditions 🙄😂.

So for the everyday non business driver, I think EVs are a hard sale. Realistically they are no more environmentally friendly than an ICE car and are significantly more expensive to buy. The days where electric was cheap have long gone and I genuinely think something like a plug in would be best overall, at this current time, for the private user.

On another note, I heard yesterday that Bristol Lexus’ RZ450e may have arrived. I don’t think it’s on show yet though, but I’m hoping to drop in for a cheeky peek soon! Personally I think if people can make the real world range work for them and really want a luxury car that also happens to be an EV, then it’s going to be a fantastic car. If people predominantly want an EV and are looking for more range, then build quality and exclusivity, Tesla has got to be the place to go. Their efficiency and charging network is hard to compete with.

DBIZO · April 14, 2023

5 hours ago, F.A. said:

Yes, EVs are not for everyone, but for people who cover low mileages and can afford/ justify the extra purchase costs, they may be ideal if they can charge at home. For the business user, who doesn’t need to be driving the lengths of the country, the current benefits are too good to ignore. We certainly purchased one for this reason, with our eyes open and our expectations at an achievable level and whilst it’s still early days, we have been very impressed. We use it as our family car and whilst we never cover more than 200 miles in one hit, I’ve used certain public chargers (Ionity Shell Recharge and MFG) to top the car up whilst we are out and have been pleasantly surprised how reliable and easy they have been to use. I am fully aware though that this is more to do with luck than anything else and it’s only time before we meet a broken one!
It does take a bit more planning for longer journeys, but for everyday use, being able to charge at home or work is key. Regarding never really needing to go fast, well we haven’t adapted our driving style to eek out more kw/hr and our Electrified GV70 is certainly every bit as fast as our GSF to the legal limits. It’s just with less drama. In fact I would think twice about attempting a traffic light Grand Prix against my wife, especially in damp conditions 🙄😂.

So for the everyday non business driver, I think EVs are a hard sale. Realistically they are no more environmentally friendly than an ICE car and are significantly more expensive to buy. The days where electric was cheap have long gone and I genuinely think something like a plug in would be best overall, at this current time, for the private user.

On another note, I heard yesterday that Bristol Lexus’ RZ450e may have arrived. I don’t think it’s on show yet though, but I’m hoping to drop in for a cheeky peek soon! Personally I think if people can make the real world range work for them and really want a luxury car that also happens to be an EV, then it’s going to be a fantastic car. If people predominantly want an EV and are looking for more range, then build quality and exclusivity, Tesla has got to be the place to go. Their efficiency and charging network is hard to compete with.

No disagreements here. EVs are for the city, that's where their benefits are maximised and their costs minimized. Of course, people are free to spend their money on whatever they want, but the virtue signalling pretence around EVs is shallow and buttressed by deliberate ignorance of facts, and the government subsidies on EVs are preposterous just on social grounds.

EVs won't be fit for purpose (personal, social or environmental) as a displacement of combustion engines for decades to come, but that won't stop people buying, because the status and feel-good benefits outweigh the compromises in time, money, and utility.

We just did a 720-mile trip into the Alps, cold, gale force winds, climbs, roofbox on. It's possible in an EV too, but I remain uninterested in partaking in a technical challenge on my holidays.

John Adams · April 20, 2023

Review of the RZ in the Telegraph. Not sure if you can read as it's behind a paywall

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/hybrid-electric-cars/lexus-rz-review-luxurious-but-ordinary-electric-car/

talaipwros · April 22, 2023

oh well, this is the end then

Quote

on a crisp spring morning with the climate control turned on, the RZ’s computer forecast a driving range of only 150 miles on a fully charged battery.

https://www.designnews.com/automotive-engineering/2023-lexus-rz-450e-delivers-sublime-serenity-not-much-range

Quote

During our weekend with the RZ, we drove from Playa del Rey to Costa Mesa for a golf outing. The trip is about 41 miles each way, and we started with just a bit over half a charge. Technically, that's about 100 miles of range if the EPA estimate can be believed, but we arrived at the golf course with 39 miles of range left, meaning we had to find a fast charger to go back home.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-lexus-rz450e-first-test-review/

F.A. · April 22, 2023

That’s a shame about the range. I popped in to Bristol Lexus yesterday whilst I was charging our GV70 across the road. The interior of the RZ450e was very nice, not a combination I would have chosen but I really liked it. The rear leg room was not what I expected given it is a dedicated EV platform. The floor is extremely shallow so your knees sit very high. The finish on the painted wheel arches on the other hand wasn’t very good at all. It had a very orange peel appearance, almost looked like the black plastic was spray painted with a rattle can 🙄. I was informed that it would be a 9 month wait if I ordered now.

mhult · April 22, 2023

10 hours ago, talaipwros said:

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-lexus-rz450e-first-test-review/

This review is mostly spot on with my own findings from test drives of the RZ. I have one on loan over the weekend. The rear seat is abysmal, with the low seat. It is approximately 6 centimeters closer the floor than in my wife's UX electric. This is a real shame, since there is plenty of leg room. With a higher seat position, or at least lowered wells for the feet, the car could have an awesome back seat.

The beeps are really annoying, but I was able to tame some of them by disabling the warnings for exceeding the speed limits by single digits. Not mentioned in this review, though is that the front seats are not that great either. I am 1.84 meters tall, and the seats are too small for me, and can't be tilted far enough. I don't get a good support for my legs. The foot rest for the left foot makes things worse by raising my left leg, and there is no room between the foot rest and the brake pedal to rest my left foot. It seems to me that they built this car for short people. The seats in my IS, while not very large either, are absolutely fantastic in comparison to the RZ.

So in summary, I am fairly disappointed by the RZ.

The new RX is a much better Lexus, but obviously not fully electric. Even the UX is a better car in some regards. It feels better built. For example, it has a metal door for the charging port, while the RZ has one in flimsy plastic. I really struggled to open it, since pressing it did nothing. I had to consult the manual, which specified that you press the rear end of the door to make it pop out. Knowing this, it still took me ten tries to open it. If you don't press in the exact right spot, the door flexes without engaging the opening mechanism. One centimeter off does not work.

But I am not really an SUV person. I would have bought an electric IS in an instant. Now I will probably order a BMW i4 M50. After 13 years fully devoted to Lexus, never considering other brands...

wivenhoe · April 22, 2023

This is yet another review that reads like the car costs less than £ 50k. Issues like a flimsy port cover may seem trivial but it does say a lot about the design. I’m also 1.84m talk and will probably find the seats too small.
Mine is on a ship and I never thought I would say this - after test driving the RZ I’ll be really glad to get back in my Range Rover Velar and spend my £ 500 deposit on something other than a car.

fourbanks · April 22, 2023

15 minutes ago, mhult said:

This review is mostly spot on with my own findings from test drives of the RZ. I have one on loan over the weekend. The rear seat is abysmal, with the low seat. It is approximately 6 centimeters closer the floor than in my wife's UX electric. This is a real shame, since there is plenty of leg room. With a higher seat position, or at least lowered wells for the feet, the car could have an awesome back seat.

The beeps are really annoying, but I was able to tame some of them by disabling the warnings for exceeding the speed limits by single digits. Not mentioned in this review, though is that the front seats are not that great either. I am 1.84 meters tall, and the seats are too small for me, and can't be tilted far enough. I don't get a good support for my legs. The foot rest for the left foot makes things worse by raising my left leg, and there is no room between the foot rest and the brake pedal to rest my left foot. It seems to me that they built this car for short people. The seats in my IS, while not very large either, are absolutely fantastic in comparison to the RZ.

So in summary, I am fairly disappointed by the RZ.

The new RX is a much better Lexus, but obviously not fully electric. Even the UX is a better car in some regards. It feels better built. For example, it has a metal door for the charging port, while the RZ has one in flimsy plastic. I really struggled to open it, since pressing it did nothing. I had to consult the manual, which specified that you press the rear end of the door to make it pop out. Knowing this, it still took me ten tries to open it. If you don't press in the exact right spot, the door flexes without engaging the opening mechanism. One centimeter off does not work.

But I am not really an SUV person. I would have bought an electric IS in an instant. Now I will probably order a BMW i4 M50. After 13 years fully devoted to Lexus, never considering other brands...

You have to remember those that live where I do, in which the beeps are critical in fact vital and in reality should be far more advanced as i am surrounded by cameras and have to visit 20mph zones regularly any turning off of beeps would be a speed ticket in the making

mhult · April 22, 2023

Just to be clear, the constant beeping in this car is absolutely ridiculous. It's like the car has ADHD. It rarely goes ten seconds without beeping. And in any ten second interval it can generate five different beeps, most of them mysterious to a new driver. It really ruins the driving experience, trying to pay attention to the road, listen to music or a podcast, having a discussion with a passenger, or just enjoying the (supposed) serenity of a Lexus.

Granted, having spent a few hours in the car, most of the beeps are not that mysterious anymore. They are still just as annoying, though. I mean, if I pass a sign with a new speed limit and set the adaptive cruise control to the new speed +5 km/h, to compensate for the error in the speedometer, I have absolutely no use for the car beeping to tell me that I am (in reality) maybe speeding by one or two kilometers per hour. This particular acoustic warning can be turned off, but there are many others that I have yet to learn how to kill, if at all possible.

I started thinking that maybe it is better to physically cut the cabling to all speaker elements in the car and live entirely without an audio system, than suffering all these beeps. That is maybe excessive, but it is indicative of how intolerable I found all those bloody beeps.

wivenhoe · April 23, 2023

mhult- does the car come with the latest version of Teammate - the advanced autonomy ?

mhult · April 23, 2023

Bob, I have not seen Teammate mentioned in relation to the RZ. What I can tell is that the Lane tracking assist seems to be doing a good job, better than in the UX.

Kevin Williams · April 23, 2023

Maybe, buy one of these instead of the RZ...

https://iplayerhd.com/player/video/dae6a69a-adb1-4692-aaba-cff7e6bcd493

wivenhoe · April 23, 2023

mhult - I downloaded the owners manual - all 800 pages of it. It says the car comes with Teammate - if fitted.

wivenhoe · April 23, 2023

Kevin - it would probably go further !

wivenhoe · April 23, 2023

I have read a review of the Lexus Teammate and that ‘bongs’ a lot if you don’t pay attention to it. Could that have been the source of the ‘bongs’ ?

mhult · April 23, 2023

1 hour ago, wivenhoe said:

I have read a review of the Lexus Teammate and that ‘bongs’ a lot if you don’t pay attention to it. Could that have been the source of the ‘bongs’ ?

I don't know if it has any kind of advanced parking assist. But it has the panoramic view, and it certainly beeps a lot when close to walls and other cars while parking (as does any car with parking sensors). Intense beeps while in reverse is not standard all cars, but present on some, and this one has set a new level in terms of loudness.

What bothers me most are the constant beeps while driving on an open road. As I said previously, many of those beeps are caused by very minor breaks of the automatically detected speed limits. I turned those off yesterday, which made the car almost quiet. However, when starting the car today, all those setting were back to default. Very annoying. If at all possible, the dealers need to configure the RZ to make a better first impression. As this one is now, the intense beeps alone have almost deterred me from buying one.

ColinBarber · April 24, 2023

12 hours ago, mhult said:

As I said previously, many of those beeps are caused by very minor breaks of the automatically detected speed limits. I turned those off yesterday, which made the car almost quiet. However, when starting the car today, all those setting were back to default. Very annoying.

It's now a legal requirement for new vehicles to be fitted with speed restricter/alert system which must automatically be reenabled every time the vehicle is started if it is disabled.

DBIZO · April 24, 2023

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

It's now a legal requirement for new vehicles to be fitted with speed restricter/alert system which must automatically be reenabled every time the vehicle is started if it is disabled.

Another reason to delay buying newer cars as long as possible. Those things don't work reliably. They cannot understand conditional speed limits and also confuse numeric exit markings in some countries (distance from 0 milestone) with speed limits. I had a recent VW Passat break hard automatically on a motorway because it thought I was speeding grossly. Not dangerous at all...

wivenhoe · April 24, 2023

A couple of years ago I was in my new Merc and the auto speed limiter was set whilst I was on a motorway. I was in lane 2 doing 70 when the car clapped the brakes on. It took me some time to realise I was about to overtake a Continental lorry which had its speed limit roundels on the back (as they do) and the Merc read them as a new speed limit. Luckily nobody was following me and I discovered adrenalin is brown !