Lexus RZ revealed

[C Mclean]

It’s a Puredrive Purestorage 10kwh AC input as the inverter we have in the loft for the panels sends the AC down to the consumer unit under the stairs. Getting about £900 pa from the panels which will continue for another 13 or 14 years.

[wivenhoe]

Has anybody read anywhere what the front headroom is. I’ve trawled the web and can’t find it. The RZ is the same height as the NX and when I sat in one of those with the seat at its lowest there wasn’t anywhere enough headroom. I’m 6’ 1” so not abnormally tall. If the headroom is the same as the NX I was in, I’ll be asking for my £500 back as my eye-line was above the top of the windscreen !

[John Adams]

11 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

Has anybody read anywhere what the front headroom is. I’ve trawled the web and can’t find it. The RZ is the same height as the NX and when I sat in one of those with the seat at its lowest there wasn’t anywhere enough headroom. I’m 6’ 1” so not abnormally tall. If the headroom is the same as the NX I was in, I’ll be asking for my £500 back as my eye-line was above the top of the windscreen !

If it's any help, I sat in the BZ4 the other day and there was plenty of headroom for me and more than my new NX. I'm 6'.

[Martin J]

After 6 months with the brilliant EV6 AWD, I'm not tempted back to the Lexus by the RZ. I'm sure the quality will be great, but the range, charging speed and performance are unexciting, and it won't be great value. As others have noted, EVs are redefining the meaning of "premium". Kia themselves are grappling with this; in the EV6 they've turned out a car that, in quality and driving experience, is world class, if not world-leading. Which, Stinger apart, is not (yet) true of the rest of their range.

[wivenhoe]

11 hours ago, John Adams said:

If it's any help, I sat in the BZ4 the other day and there was plenty of headroom for me and more than my new NX. I'm 6'.

Many thanks. Just what I wanted to hear. I have a RR Velar PHEV currently so used to plenty of headroom. 

[talaipwros]

Doesn't look good range wise.

 

Been in person to see the toyota one, looked lovely. 

Sales person said that the single motor unit will do 317 miles due to "fine tuning " 

I started having thoughts putting an order for either the toyota or become brave and go for the RZ 

 

And then...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edmunds.com/amp/car-news/tested-2023-toyota-bz4x-returns-underwhelming-real-world-range.html

 

The single-motor 2023 Toyota bZ4X Limited FWD covered 227 miles in Edmunds' real-world EV range test, 

 

oh well.

 

[Moleman]

6 minutes ago, talaipwros said:

Doesn't look good range wise.

 

Been in person to see the toyota one, looked lovely. 

Sales person said that the single motor unit will do 317 miles due to "fine tuning " 

I started having thoughts putting an order for either the toyota or become brave and go for the RZ 

 

And then...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edmunds.com/amp/car-news/tested-2023-toyota-bz4x-returns-underwhelming-real-world-range.html

 

The single-motor 2023 Toyota bZ4X Limited FWD covered 227 miles in Edmunds' real-world EV range test, 

 

oh well.

 

This is what puts people off making the change. I really need to see a guaranteed 300 mile range to make it worth the effort, plus of course the price to reduce by 40% or more. 

Currently makes more sense to wait and see how technology improves and brings prices down. 

[ColinBarber]

On 6/10/2022 at 5:31 PM, Martin J said:

I'm sure the quality will be great, but the range, charging speed and performance are unexciting

Charging speed details haven't been released yet. Given the delay it is expected to be better than its Toyota sister but granted it is unlikely to match the EV6.

[John Adams]

14 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Charging speed details haven't been released yet. Given the delay it is expected to be better than its Toyota sister but granted it is unlikely to match the EV6.

"Out of spec reviews" on You Tube have done charging tests on the BZ4 and they were not impressed.

[ColinBarber]

4 hours ago, John Adams said:

"Out of spec reviews" on You Tube have done charging tests on the BZ4 and they were not impressed.

Yes I understand that but the Lexus isn't just a rebadged BZ, they are using different motor configurations to give it more performance and they could possibly improve charging performance too - we have to wait until Lexus release more details (at which point we probably will be disappointed).

[John Adams]

12 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Yes I understand that but the Lexus isn't just a rebadged BZ, they are using different motor configurations to give it more performance and they could possibly improve charging performance too - we have to wait until Lexus release more details (at which point we probably will be disappointed).

I  hope we won't be disappointed, I've  had one on pre order since May and I really want Lexus to be the EV for me going forward.

[talaipwros]

2 hours ago, John Adams said:

I  hope we won't be disappointed, I've  had one on pre order since May and I really want Lexus to be the EV for me going forward.

The toyota one looked really nice inside, surely Lexus will look better, so you will not be disappointed on that account!

Perhaps it would be a good idea to go and have a look at a bz4x so that you know what to expect

[C Mclean]

I wouldn’t bother about the Out of Spec Reviews as they’re American and only use half the voltage we do, plus their gallons are smaller.  😄😇😉

[wivenhoe]

 

On 6/17/2022 at 6:26 PM, ColinBarber said:

Charging speed details haven't been released yet. Given the delay it is expected to be better than its Toyota sister but granted it is unlikely to match the EV6.

Most of the Toyota BZ’s have Chinese batteries so it’s very likely the cars being reviewed have these. The RZ will only have the Toyota / Panasonic produced batteries so they may have considerably better properties. However as the RZ will be AWD I suspect that it will have the same Battery as the AWD Toyota which is the subject of a concerning article, albeit American. It reports what Toyota have been formally saying, rather than expressing an opinion. It is reported that Toyota have said -   

And on the AWD variant of bZ4X, which has a different Battery pack than FWD model, Toyota (initially) straight up says DC charging may not work when below 32 degrees Fahrenheit (freezing point)This was later changed to ….. for the bZ4X AWD model, charging may slow down more than other models in weather conditions below 32 degrees Fahrenheit"

The full article is here - https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-toyota-bz4x-charging-speed-cold-temperature/

I’ll be asking my dealer whether this applies to the RZ as the range will plummet when driving in freezing conditions and on a long drive it could take ages to charge on DC, (if at all) precisely when you’ll want to charge and get on your way. 

[Boxbrownie]

It does appear Toyota/Lexus are a bit lost concerning the charging/battery performance, it’s not as if they have not had decades of experience but it just seems they are not putting “they’re all” into BEVs as much as the rest of the industry.

Anyway, it’ll all become clear once they are officially launched and tested.

[Boxbrownie]

12 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

Most of the Toyota BZ’s have Chinese batteries so it’s very likely the cars being reviewed have these.

Have you got a link to that information as I was under the impression the new factory in Himeji was producing end of last year and providing batteries for the new BZ from start of production?

 

If the cold weather charging is affecting the new Prismatic Li-ion batteries they are going to have big problems in a lot of markets.

[wivenhoe]

2 hours ago, Boxbrownie said:

Have you got a link to that information as I was under the impression the new factory in Himeji was producing end of last year and providing batteries for the new BZ from start of production?

 

If the cold weather charging is affecting the new Prismatic Li-ion batteries they are going to have big problems in a lot of markets.

According to Automotive News, the Toyota bZ4X will get its batteries from Chinese Battery producer CATL and the joint venture between Toyota and Panasonic known as Prime Planet Energy & Solutions, but the Lexus RZ 450e will only get batteries from Prime Planet Energy & Solutions. https://www.theautopian.com/the-2023-lexus-rz-is-the-toyota-bz4xs-posh-potent-sibling/

[wivenhoe]

I assumed incorrectly that the RZ as it is AWD would have the same Battery as the Toyota BZ AWD. I found a definitive article which confirms that the concerns over charging rates applies to the Chinese Battery from CATL in the BZ AWD and not the Panasonic Battery which will be in the RZ.
https://insideevs.com/news/585939/toyota-bz4x-awd-fast-charging-curve/

The CATL Battery seems to be vastly inferior to the Panasonic one and because Toyota are offering the same warranty (90% at 10 years) they are reducing the charge rate to protect the Battery life. The CATL Battery cars have a home charge max rate of only 6.6kw whereas the Panasonic have 7.4kw 

[Boxbrownie]

9 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

I assumed incorrectly that the RZ as it is AWD would have the same battery as the Toyota BZ AWD. I found a definitive article which confirms that the concerns over charging rates applies to the Chinese battery from CATL in the BZ AWD and not the Panasonic battery which will be in the RZ.
https://insideevs.com/news/585939/toyota-bz4x-awd-fast-charging-curve/

The CATL battery seems to be vastly inferior to the Panasonic one and because Toyota are offering the same warranty (90% at 10 years) they are reducing the charge rate to protect the battery life. The CATL battery cars have a home charge max rate of only 6.6kw whereas the Panasonic have 7.4kw 

That makes sense, a strange way for Toyota to go about it with their first BEV though.

 

Maybe it’s just a supply issue and they will migrate the bZ to the better batteries.

[William_1991]

TMC just trademarked RZ300e!

Most probably it will only have the 150kW front motor.

Maybe that’s the reason behind the delay on the UX300e? It’s not all that more expensive the RZ450e, a bit cheaper RZ300e should make the UX300e.

[talaipwros]

32 minutes ago, William_1991 said:

TMC just trademarked RZ300e!

Most probably it will only have the 150kW front motor.

Maybe that’s the reason behind the delay on the UX300e? It’s not all that more expensive the RZ450e, a bit cheaper RZ300e should make the UX300e.

ehm, and what? 130 miles range? It is a much bigger car!

[William_1991]

Should use the same Battery found on the RZ450e, not the one used on the UX300e, giving it a slighter better range than what’s offered now.

The Battery used in the RZ is considerably better than the one on the UX.

[talaipwros]

51 minutes ago, William_1991 said:

Should use the same battery found on the RZ450e, not the one used on the UX300e, giving it a slighter better range than what’s offered now.

The battery used in the RZ is considerably better than the one on the UX.

so in essence the bZ4X configuration. That would make more sense!

[northpolar]

Battery technology will become one of the biggest differentiators to help inform decisions on which brand and model to choose when buying/ leasing a car.

 

Kia with their EV6 and EV6 GT appear to have taken considerable strides forwards just as Toyota/ Lexus are entering the BEV market.  From my perspective it seems that Toyota have been spooked and brought forward their BEVs in a sub-optimal manner.  I cannot understand why anyone would select the new RZ with what comparatively offers an under powered car with an unacceptably limited range.  It is not like the RZ will be bought primarily as a city car.  The owners will be expecting to be able to travel long distances and surely a minimum for a new entry to the market at this level should now be targeting 350+ miles and/ or stronger performance?

Simply not good enough in my opinion and I hope that Toyota/ Lexus have substantial improvements waiting in the wings/ in final development - perhaps in line with their original BEV development programme.

Peter

[talaipwros]

There is no way a 200miles EV justifies 72K price ( in takumi spec )