Lexus RZ revealed

[Arnett]

dull and uninspiring, looks to similar to the toyota version.

The problem with EV cars is the same problem I have with my mums house, no matter how the shade of magnolia differs its still bloody dull. Tesla have spear-headed the campaign unfortunately and Musk is a large part of that. 

 

Ironically for me the best looking EV is probably the Cybertruck, doesn't look like my nan designed it. But no doubt itll have awful quality assurance when it arrives into the world and I hate the "server based car"

[ganzoom]

7 hours ago, rayaans said:

Some initial reviews are in. Looks like the Yoke is very well judged and the overall vehicle is up to usual Lexus standards 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/road-tests/357875/new-lexus-rz-450e-prototype-review

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motor1.com/reviews/583148/2022-lexus-rz450e-prototype-first-drive/amp/

The comments on the Yoke seem genuinely interesting. Tesla still run a direct connection between the front wheels and the steering, where as the RZE deployment is totally independent. The advantage of the independence is quite big as you could actually than run the car fully autmonounsly without the steering wheel moving, giving you much better ergonomics for the driver to 'relax' etc.

Will be good to test this is real life.

[ganzoom]

On 4/30/2022 at 8:41 PM, ColinBarber said:

Which it won't be in real life. Winter rain on the motorway and you won't see 150 miles.

But for the UK that's more than enough, in school holiday times 150 miles of driving = 5-6hrs stuck in stationary traffic on the M5 🙂

Our 75D X has roughly 180 miles range in winter, I've done 60k+ miles in it now with no range worries including taking it to Scotland in sub zero temps, and this summer taking it to Norway.

What's really interesting about EVs is manufacture support for longterm Battery replacements. Tesla seems to have dropped the price of the 90kWh replacement Battery pack to $11k in the US from $20k, and hinted at more price drops coming.

I plan to replace the Battery pack in our X when it hits 10 years old, so in about 5 years time. When I do that it will have MORE range than when new!

So something as reliable as an Lexus EV + ongoing manufacture support could mean the RZE could become a car 'for life'. Reliability is Lexus USP, been able to market a 'car for life' would seriously acutally interest me. Swapping into a brand new car every X years is probably the worst thing any of us can do for the environment.

My wifes IS300H is covering just 2500 miles an year, so even without a Battery replacement it would take 40 years to hit 100k miles. I have zero confidence our Tesla will last half that time frame, but the RZE though I think may do that with ease.....My wifes main focus on any car is realibity which makes the RZE actually quite interesting as an option to replace the IS.

 

The problem is the IS300H is already so reliable and cheap to own replacing make zero sense, which is an issue, if realibity is Lexus main USP what's the incentive to swap into a new one?

[ColinBarber]

3 hours ago, ganzoom said:

But for the UK that's more than enough, in school holiday times 150 miles of driving = 5-6hrs stuck in stationary traffic on the M5

What's enough for one person may not be enough for another, however I don't want to get into that. All I was trying to point out was don't expect to get near a manufacture's range claim in the winter when it's raining and you are driving into a headwind on the motorway at 80 mph.

[ganzoom]

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

What's enough for one person may not be enough for another, however I don't want to get into that. All I was trying to point out was don't expect to get near a manufacture's range claim in the winter when it's raining and you are driving into a headwind on the motorway at 80 mph.

The obsession with range in EVs is pretty illogical though, there aren't many people who's time is so precious they cannot justify stopping for 20-30 minutes on a 3-4hr+ drive.

It's looking like I can pay Tesla £10kish to 'upgrade' the Battery in our car to go from 60kWh (after 8 years of degredation) to 90kWh+. So roughly speaking an extra 90 miles of real world range.......But acutally is 90 miles of worth even £5k extra let alone £10k. Unless I use that range everyday it one really expensive comfort blanket.

Nissan probably got it right with the original Leaf and its range as a commuter car. However you are right we humans aren't very logical, so even though 90 miles extra range does nothing practical for our car usage when the time comes I'll probably still pay the £10k for a new Battery :).

[dutchie01]

7 hours ago, ganzoom said:

The problem is the IS300H is already so reliable and cheap to own replacing make zero sense, which is an issue, if realibity is Lexus main USP what's the incentive to swap into a new one?

How about driving the IS till it breaks then swap that engine, will give you a car for life and for less than 10K?

 

 

 

[Spock66]

3 hours ago, ganzoom said:

The obsession with range in EVs is pretty illogical though, there aren't many people who's time is so precious they cannot justify stopping for 20-30 minutes on a 3-4hr+ drive.

Yes but think of the acres of space and infrastructure that will be required.

Back of the envelope calculations:

• BEV typical range 200 miles vs 400 miles for an ICE
• Typical refuel for an ICE 5-mins, assume 30-mins for BEV
• So typical motorway service station will need to accommodate 12 times as many vehicles simultaneously

[dutchie01]

It seems there is a misunderstanding in filling up electric vehicles it is not thesame as filling your petroltank to the brim. There is no need to fill up with electricity thesame way. The car calculates how much electricity it needs to reach the next chargingpoint and that could be 36% or so. This will be 10 minutes charging? Another thing about range, when i drive for 2 hrs i need a break sometimes sooner ( wash my hands of course!) so who needs 1000km range?

Ganzoom can you fill us in on the daily prictice of things?

[ganzoom]

13 hours ago, Spock66 said:

So typical motorway service station will need to accommodate 12 times as many vehicles simultaneously

When was the last time you actually filled up at a Mway service station? I can count on one hand the number of time I used a Mway service for fuel in 17 years of driving combustion cars, and my last combustion car had a real world range of around 250 miles from a full tank.

The reason hardly anyone uses Mway services for fuel is cost, why would you pay 10-15% more for fuel when most of the time you can do the trip in one go and only fill up off the Mway (In the UK at least).

EV Rapid charging is already following a similar setup. Mway rapid chargers now cost 50p+/kWh, so 'fill up' a RZE would cost you £35. The same amount of electricity at home will cost you 7-20p/kWh, so at least 50% cheaper.

So why would you fill up at a Mway service station unless you had to, and even with 150-200 mile range in the UK there isn't much need to. 

Interestingly though the latest Mway DC rapid charging sites are getting x20 high power (350KW) chargers. So actually getting close the equivalent of having x10 petrol pumps at a forecourt. 

There is nothing stopping you from getting an EV with more range, the Mercedes EQS has a 110kWh pack Battery, the Rivians 130kWh pack, but they all cost £100k+ and unless you are going to use all that capacity/range daily its just a waste of resources and money.

[ganzoom]

12 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

This will be 10 minutes charging?

Our average stop for a charge on the Mways is probably around that figure. 10 minutes is enough to take most EVs from 10% SOC to 40-50%, so about 50 miles+ of range. For us that usually enough to complete the trip with no issues, and acutally the difference in range between a big Battery versus small Battery car which is around £3-5k depending on make......For most of us, 10 minutes extra time for splash and dash isn't worth any where near £3-5k.

When we have stopped for longer during lunch etc, I've always had to come out and move the car so others car use the charger. Essentially the car is ready to go before we are!

If you live in the US I think there is a different need, as just going from San Francisco to San Diego is 550miles and for many that's a weekend out, and LA to NewYork is 2800 miles. Where as London to Edinburgh is barely over 400 miles, and many would choose to fly versus drive that distance in the UK.

 

[Escanor]

I think another factor we have to consider is human psychology, I would like to keep my car topped up above at least 30 percent all the time. This is different from ICE cars as I know I can find fuel in my next stop and it will only take 10 minutes of my time max. Even if I ran out, I still can get my Jerry can and refill it, or a quick phone call to my friends or AA will sort it. Of course this never happened, but the logic which allows me to be calm when driving long distances is all these factors.

With EV, when the range drops below 50 percent I will be thinking of the next fuel stop, worrying if the next one will work or not, the possible road closures and diversions which affects my range to destination and try to keep it topped off at all possible times. 

Of course this thinking might improve when the infrastructure improves, but again if majority is thinking the same way and in a 100 percent EV future we might struggle to find a charger.

[Spock66]

39 minutes ago, Escanor said:

Of course this thinking might improve when the infrastructure improves, but again if majority is thinking the same way and in a 100 percent EV future we might struggle to find a charger.

And just hope you don't run out of charge on a so called 'Smart Motorway'.....

[Escanor]

9 hours ago, Spock66 said:

And just hope you don't run out of charge on a so called 'Smart Motorway'.....

True, it's a shame that even with the negative data they are still persisting with it. With an EV which can't be moved if broken/out of power this is going to be a lot worse. 

[talaipwros]

 

Can't understand a thing but video speaks for itself.

That 400Km somewhere in a table is probably the range ( that would be 250 miles)

[talaipwros]

Does anyone know if  there is  any benefit in preordering one now rather than in August after price is revealed? Any extra perks or benefits?

[Zotto]

Here (not UK), they offer 1000 Euros  free at  chargers as bonus.

[John Adams]

2 hours ago, talaipwros said:

Does anyone know if  there is  any benefit in preordering one now rather than in August after price is revealed? Any extra perks or benefits?

I pre ordered one about a month ago mainly to be high on the list when deliveries start. The only perk I can see (not sure if it is a perk) is that the price they announce in August will not change even if deliveries are delayed and prices rise in the meantime. Of course, the price might be too high for me when announced but we shall see. I want an EV going forward and having owned Lexus cars for a number of years this would be my preferred choice if everything pans out ok.

[talaipwros]

26 minutes ago, John Adams said:

I pre ordered one about a month ago mainly to be high on the list when deliveries start. The only perk I can see (not sure if it is a perk) is that the price they announce in August will not change even if deliveries are delayed and prices rise in the meantime. Of course, the price might be too high for me when announced but we shall see. I want an EV going forward and having owned Lexus cars for a number of years this would be my preferred choice if everything pans out ok.

Thanks for that and congratulations for ordering the RZ!

I thought that price is guaranteed no matter what after you place the order?

[Zotto]

At the moment price is unknown: pre ordering is made just giving a little amount that will be given back if you decide to renounce buy.

[talaipwros]

....and Lexus replied

 

Quote

Those who order sooner should get their vehicles sooner. Thanks

Lols, what a reply, still fair enough.

[Barry14UK]

So Lexus expect you to place an order without giving a price and spec list.  You would have thought by now they could have provided this.

Let's hope Lexus have got the reliability right because if you read about the problems on various forums for other makes, far too many people are experiencing these and one of the main problems is the 12v Battery not activating even when well charged.  Temperature can play a part in this.

On a slightly different tack, I believe some of the 'ready made' BEV's use a motor that just spins faster in the same gear as it were.  However, some of the folks that have done home conversions have retained the existing gearbox with a low spinning motor so that you get to change up and down gears like you would with an ICE motor (something those who like changing gear would prefer.) Here is an example. https://interestingengineering.com/video/youtuber-converts-volkswagen-passat-into-an-electric-vehicle

or if you want done professionally this outfit is converting some interesting cars as seen in this video.  Electric conversion of a Lexus anyone? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eHLmnVW2rc

 

 

[Steve_S]

The RZ looks nice enough and the drivetrain capacity and efficiency looks to be at least competitive with the likes of Audi without being industry leading. But, it is above my price range and I get the impression that Lexus is pushing even more upmarket in the same way that Mercedes and Jaguar are going. I guess it will be interesting to see if they replace the UX300e with an entry level model when the time comes or just bin it.

I've been reading a bit of EV forum chatter and not unexpectedly reliability issues seem to focus on basic software reliability rather than mechanical which is to be expected. It is a technology undergoing a lot of transition.

Electric Classic cars are one of several companies in the UK doing conversions (I quite enjoy the TV series based around them). If I had the money I would quite like a converted 1970's Citroen DS matching the retro Buck Rogers design with a modern drive train. 

[ColinBarber]

On 5/29/2022 at 6:24 PM, Barry14UK said:

On a slightly different tack, I believe some of the 'ready made' BEV's use a motor that just spins faster in the same gear as it were.  However, some of the folks that have done home conversions have retained the existing gearbox with a low spinning motor so that you get to change up and down gears like you would with an ICE motor (something those who like changing gear would prefer.) Here is an example. https://interestingengineering.com/video/youtuber-converts-volkswagen-passat-into-an-electric-vehicle

One of the benefits of a BEV is a greatly simplified drivetrain (weight saving and reliability benefits) because electric motors have a wide operating window that all but removes the need for a gearbox.

The drawback is a low top speed for many BEVs, including this new Lexus. Porsche do use a 2 speed transmission on their Taycan but others such as Tesla just use two motors on their AWD models with differing characteristics.

[C Mclean]

Pre order done and just have to wait and see how my electricity bills turn out. 4kw solar panels been on the roof for 11 years and a 10kwh Battery going into the garage in a week or two. Before the recent increases in electricity and gas I was paying £156 per month, it’s now up to £375 per month on the new tariff.

[Phil xxkr]

8 minutes ago, C Mclean said:

Pre order done and just have to wait and see how my electricity bills turn out. 4kw solar panels been on the roof for 11 years and a 10kwh battery going into the garage in a week or two. Before the recent increases in electricity and gas I was paying £156 per month, it’s now up to £375 per month on the new tariff.

What make of Battery Colin?