Can’t fit new brake pads! Is it a calliper issue?

[Razor61]

General guidance from my experience for replacing brake pads but it depends on the type of caliper. Replacing pads………..straightforward you think and it is if the callipers and sliders are in good condition. 
Remove the caliper bolts or slider pins.
with the pads still fitted, move the caliper in such a way as to put pressure on the piston.
if you feel the piston moving easy enough and the amount you can move the caliper increases then at least the piston is moving.
at this point remove the old pads and make note of where they were located so you can put them back as they were.
Push the piston back in, if the calipers are in good condition you may be able to push them back in using both your thumbs. If not use a g clamp or a caliper wind back tool. Using either method should not need a massive amount of force, if it does need a massive amount of force or sticks then you have a problem and the callipers need rebuilding or new/refurbished callipers.
If the pistons move back no problem then carry on and replace the pads making sure you clean everything with brake cleaner and apply the correct grease where applicable.
If you are in any doubt about the condition of the calipers and pistons then put everything back as it was and plan for rebuilding the calipers or buying new/refurbished calipers.

[AntC]

This happens if the old pads are worn out, thus, requiring the piston to be pushed further out so that they can make contact with the rotor.

If that is the case, you need to either get a piston compression tool or bleed the system a bit so that you can push it back with your hands.

Since you're replacing the pads anyway, it's also recommended to regrease the guide pins. You can also grab a metal brush to clean surface rust from the caliper in any places that come in contact with the pads. You can also apply some anti seize on said contact points, as well as the back of the pads. This will help ensure that the caliper is working smoothly and there is no noise due to vibrations or surface rust.

[OldTrout]

https://proslip.com/product/grease-for-brake-calipers/

will give you a approved lubrications for all three areas.

John

[McShmoopy]

Success! A big thanks to everyone, following on from the advice about bleeding the brakes I did the rear passenger side and then rear driver side. I didnt bother with trying to bleed the front brakes as they weren't touched =. My suspicion was correct that there was alot of air in the rear drivers side brakes. After this the car seems to be braking as it should, it seems a tad less firmer than it was before but I'll put that down to bedding the brakes in. Within 50 miles or so should do from what I've read up. I was careful to make sure the brake fluid was topped up to max but I only needed to use very little in the end. 

Unfortunately I did make one blunder, it seems I've managed to lose one of the brake pad clips for the rear passenger side, Doh! I had it in a magnetic parts tray alongside all the other bits to make sure it didnt get lost or misplaced, however the only thing I can think of that it was a very windy day when I started doing this so it may have flown off somewhere beyond my driveway.

Thankfully its only the top clip and not the one at the bottom so I could get away with it however I'm ordering a new one for good measure from Lexus to make sure there are no issue as I did notice theres a slight noise coming from the rear passenger side, could be the brake pads Im guessing. 

Edit: Managed to get the clip ordered via Lexus Nottingham for £7 and should be here by the morning! 

[Razor61]

19 hours ago, McShmoopy said:

Success! A big thanks to everyone, following on from the advice about bleeding the brakes I did the rear passenger side and then rear driver side.

Well done, the rear brakes on the IS250 are not easy to sort out if you have seized sliders. When I first got my IS250 in December 2020 the first thing I did was dismantle the rear calipers etc, drivers side bottom slider was seized, freed everything up, cleaned and greased, reassembled. I planned to repeat the process last spring/summer but forgot. Car went in for it's service beginning of November and drivers rear was seized again, I'd left it too long to grease them again. Car has extended warranty so the drivers side caliper assembly was replaced under warranty and I paid for the passenger side caliper to be replaced plus they fitted the new discs and pads I had. New caliper assembly was around £180 iirc which I don't think is too bad at all.

[McShmoopy]

Small update for everyone, I ordered the clip and despite it looking different to my existing one I lost I managed to fit it on. The sliding bolts for the calliper have holes in them which this pin fits into rather than wedging behind sliding bolts  and the the middle brake pad hole. Unfortunately two new issues have now become apparent.

Upon driving the car with the window down yesterday I noticed an almost burning smell, I took a look at the calliper on the driver side I didn’t need to unseize and it looks like upon changing the brake pads it’s completely seized up. There was a large amount of heat coming from the rotor / wheel compared to the other three. 

This morning I’ve took a hammer to the calliper for a good 20 minutes and managed to free it up, regrease all the components for it and fitted it back on no problem. 

After that I’ve just taken the car for a quick drive with the window down and noticed a horrible grinding noise on the very same driver side rear brake, to say I’m not annoyed is an understatement! I’m thinking it could be the rotor because compared to the passenger side this one looked extremely worn out and rusty in comparison. But to my knowledge this wasn’t happening yesterday so it could be something I’ve missed?

As far as I know it didn’t do this yesterday but I did get caught in some rain when sorting the calliper out, so I managed to get a bin bag over the whole disc and wiped away the water droplets that did get on. 

here’s a photo I took of it during the last few days. anyone have any indication what it could be? 
 

 

EDIT: Took the wheel off again to investigate, can’t see any issues with the brake pads, maybe it’s because the calliper I’ve now freed the calliper it’s making the noise?  Provided a recording with my Iphone hanging out the driver side window 

 

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Grinding noise IS250.zip

[Razor61]

Judging by the condition of the disc in the picture, I would have replaced the rear discs and pads after sorting out the seized caliper sliders. That is what I would do or would have done. There is some info below which may help you but, as I've said before, I think you should get things checked out by a mechanic or someone who has done this sort of thing before.

36 minutes ago, McShmoopy said:

the sliding bolts for the calliper have holes in them which this pin fits into rather than wedging behind sliding bolts  and the the middle brake pad hole.

I presume you mean the 'pad' guide pins not the 'caliper' slider pins that are normally seized? in the picture the 'pad' guide pins are missing an these are the pins that have the holes in them.

Information which may help:

Caliper slider pins that rust and seize up, top one unscrews and the bottom one, with the yellow arrow, is fixed to the caliper support bracket.
removing the top slider pin allows the caliper to be swung out of the way so you can replace the disc (if it's not seized of course and this is one that normally seizes)

Pad guide pins

Components for for the pads etc that should be present, the anti squeal shims look to be missing

[McShmoopy]

3 minutes ago, Razor61 said:

Judging by the condition of the disc in the picture, I would have replaced the rear discs and pads after sorting out the seized caliper sliders. That is what I would do or would have done. There is some info below which may help you but, as I've said before, I think you should get things checked out by a mechanic or someone who has done this sort of thing before.

I presume you mean the 'pad' guide pins not the 'caliper' slider pins that are normally seized? in the picture the 'pad' guide pins are missing an these are the pins that have the holes in them.

Information which may help:

Caliper slider pins that rust and seize up, top one unscrews and the bottom one, with the yellow arrow, is fixed to the caliper support bracket.
removing the top slider pin allows the caliper to be swung out of the way so you can replace the disc (if it's not seized of course and this is one that normally seizes)

Pad guide pins

Components for for the pads etc that should be present, the anti squeal shims look to be missing

Thanks for the info, it may well be worth seeing a mechanic although I don’t know if it’s brake related as such because the noise comes from driving and when I hit the brakes no noises at all and they work well. I have heard of shims but I didn’t know it was a requirement to get them as I figured the brake pads alone would be fine.
 

in terms of the calliper, yes I did mean the slider pin and have now freed it as that was seized up. The huge amount of heat coming from the wheel has now gone but I don’t know if the grinding noise is normal or not. 

i record a quick audio clip of the noise if that helps, happens when driving and reversing. 
 

Grinding noise driver side rear .zip

[Spock66]

25 minutes ago, McShmoopy said:

The huge amount of heat coming from the wheel has now gone but I don’t know if the grinding noise is normal or not.

Clearly that's not normal.

I do believe in tackling jobs yourself, but you also need to know when to quit, so I suggest finding a reputable mechanic.

[Razor61]

19 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

Clearly that's not normal.

I do believe in tackling jobs yourself, but you also need to know when to quit, so I suggest finding a reputable mechanic.

As above and what I have advised a couple of times, get it to a mechanic or someone who is experienced who can help and can do the job.
I don’t want to worry you but I suspect you will need new pads again, new discs, new/refurbished caliper assemblies and possibly new parking brake shoes once the discs are removed.
 

[McShmoopy]

38 minutes ago, Razor61 said:

As above and what I have advised a couple of times, get it to a mechanic or someone who is experienced who can help and can do the job.
I don’t want to worry you but I suspect you will need new pads again, new discs, new/refurbished caliper assemblies and possibly new parking brake shoes once the discs are removed.
 

I reckon you may be right, I’ll have to arrange taking it to a garage. I had a week off to do some DIY and other work so thought I could tackle the job myself 😂

[Razor61]

Hey, you live and learn! We are right, trust what we say😉

As said by Spock66, tackling jobs yourself is good and can save money so credit for giving it a go. Unknown to you though, you picked on the wrong job to start doing. Doing the rear brakes on an IS250 can turn out to be an involved PITA job and cost a few quid even when you have experience and know what you are doing. That can apply to most older cars when doing the brakes as well though, if they are not in good condition and sorted already.

[Shahpor]

You have probably already considered this, but do you have a acquaintance that you might persuade to come over and help you with your brake problem?

The reason I say this is that if you drop the car off to a mechanic they will fix it for you, but you won't learn anything.  If someone comes to help (even a friendly mobile mechanic), you have the opportunity to observe or perhaps ask a few questions that could be useful the next time you attempt to tackle a similar situation.

Well done for trying though.

[is200 Newbie]

..... also, not sure if you know ... there are brake shoes that operate in the discs themselves and although these generally dont wear as quick as the pads themselves, it may be worth asking the garage to check them out also just to put a stake in the sand to say that the shoes are not the issue. They dont have a lot of meat on them and thats normal. 

[Mr Vlad]

Right Bilal. That photo of the rear caliper and disc. Just to clarify. Was that photo taken After you did anything to the caliper and drove the car or was the photo taken during what you did with the caliper. 

The grinding noise file doesn't work but I suspect the grinding noise is down to the condition of that disc. It's knackered. 

Was it the drivers side caliper you inadvertently dislodged the piston from the caliper? It may be a good idea to buy a refurbished caliper because even though you pushed the piston back in the possibility of dust getting in is just too high. 

Get two new discs. Get a refurbished caliper for the drivers side. You know what you're doing its just you've lost confidence because of a failure. You've learned from that.

Looking again at the photo. A new pad will wear unevenly on that current disc. There's far too much rusty area compared to 'shiny' area.

It's fun doing brakes isn't it? 

[McShmoopy]

First of all thanks everyone for the kind words they're greatly appreciated! I'd love to be able to sort the problem myself but as my week off comes to an end I cant spend any more time faffing around with the car so itll likely go to a garage tomorrow if possible. 

3 hours ago, Mr Vlad said:

Right Bilal. That photo of the rear caliper and disc. Just to clarify. Was that photo taken After you did anything to the caliper and drove the car or was the photo taken during what you did with the caliper. 

The grinding noise file doesn't work but I suspect the grinding noise is down to the condition of that disc. It's knackered. 

Was it the drivers side caliper you inadvertently dislodged the piston from the caliper? It may be a good idea to buy a refurbished caliper because even though you pushed the piston back in the possibility of dust getting in is just too high. 

Get two new discs. Get a refurbished caliper for the drivers side. You know what you're doing its just you've lost confidence because of a failure. You've learned from that.

Looking again at the photo. A new pad will wear unevenly on that current disc. There's far too much rusty area compared to 'shiny' area.

It's fun doing brakes isn't it? 

That photo was taken before I messed around with the calliper, this disc looked rather rough from the start and compared to the passenger side that looks much better with no signs of rust or major use. And yes It was the driver side piston that got dislodged so you could be right about the dust, I'm hoping I won't need to shell out for a new calliper that will not be a fun prospect but If it needs doing... 🙄 I did spot some nice brembo discs on Auto Doc but itll take too long for those to arrive I reckon so I'll see what a garage has to say regarding the grinding noise. 

 

4 hours ago, Shahpor said:

You have probably already considered this, but do you have a acquaintance that you might persuade to come over and help you with your brake problem?

The reason I say this is that if you drop the car off to a mechanic they will fix it for you, but you won't learn anything.  If someone comes to help (even a friendly mobile mechanic), you have the opportunity to observe or perhaps ask a few questions that could be useful the next time you attempt to tackle a similar situation.

Well done for trying though.

My girlfriends dads best mate is a mechanic so he did offer to come take a look at the car once I hit the initial snag with the pads, however I don't think he'd be able to take a look til next week now so it might have to be a case of chatting with the mechanic once the car gets looked at! 

 

5 hours ago, Razor61 said:

Hey, you live and learn! We are right, trust what we say😉

As said by Spock66, tackling jobs yourself is good and can save money so credit for giving it a go. Unknown to you though, you picked on the wrong job to start doing. Doing the rear brakes on an IS250 can turn out to be an involved PITA job and cost a few quid even when you have experience and know what you are doing. That can apply to most older cars when doing the brakes as well though, if they are not in good condition and sorted already.

Haha thats true, I like to try and do most things myself only resorting to professionals when required. I was vaguely aware that the brakes for the IS were notorious for being a pain but only after going through the hassle myself do I realise how bad it was haha. 

4 hours ago, is200 Newbie said:

..... also, not sure if you know ... there are brake shoes that operate in the discs themselves and although these generally dont wear as quick as the pads themselves, it may be worth asking the garage to check them out also just to put a stake in the sand to say that the shoes are not the issue. They dont have a lot of meat on them and thats normal. 

I'll certainly give this a mention to the mechanic, depending if the Lexus specialist I take my car to is available I'll either take it down the road or to the pretty decent one down the road from me! 

[Texas]

As a point of interest I grew up fixing motorbikes and cars using Haynes manuals for guidance ( pre internet days!) I have just looked and Haynes have an E manual available for the IS250 but not a paper book as such, at £26 it is probably a wealth of information but I can’t see a section for Rear Brake maintenance! It may be in there somewhere!

https://haynes.com/en-gb/lexus/is/2006-2010-25-petrol-163403

[2AD FHV]

22 hours ago, Texas said:

As a point of interest I grew up fixing motorbikes and cars using Haynes manuals for guidance ( pre internet days!) I have just looked and Haynes have an E manual available for the IS250 but not a paper book as such, at £26 it is probably a wealth of information but I can’t see a section for Rear Brake maintenance! It may be in there somewhere!

https://haynes.com/en-gb/lexus/is/2006-2010-25-petrol-163403

Thanks for the link Paul, it can search on your registration plate too, there's a separate manual for the 220d.

[AntC]

Just changed my pads and rotors last night and would like to share a tip.

I didn't have my piston compression tool at the time, so what you can do is put a medical tube on the bleeder screw, then loosen it and push the piston in with your thumbs. The tube prevents any air from getting in if you were to slightly release the piston, since it will just suck in some of the fluid that's already in the tube. It also has the added benefit of not making a mess.l as you can just stick the tube in a bottle.

Make sure to check your brake fluid level after starting the car and depressing the brake a few times. Also, add clean fluid only, not the one that was drained during the piston compression.

Note: This is much easier with two people.

[ColinBarber]

5 hours ago, AntC said:

Just changed my pads and rotors last night and would like to share a tip.

I didn't have my piston compression tool at the time, so what you can do is put a medical tube on the bleeder screw, then loosen it and push the piston in with your thumbs. The tube prevents any air from getting in if you were to slightly release the piston, since it will just suck in some of the fluid that's already in the tube. It also has the added benefit of not making a mess.l as you can just stick the tube in a bottle.

Make sure to check your brake fluid level after starting the car and depressing the brake a few times. Also, add clean fluid only, not the one that was drained during the piston compression.

Note: This is much easier with two people.

Good tip but you still need to be careful as opening up the bleed screw just a little more than necessary can lead to air being drawn in via the thread of the screw.

[McShmoopy]

Small update for everyone, the horrible grinding noise has been resolved but it turns out it was the dust shield for the brakes making contact with the discs! I’ve bent it out of the way with some pliers and that seems to have resolved the issue.

Following on from the advice of everyone else here however my car is at Lexus to fix an issue with my radio but I’ve asked them to take a look at the brakes also for good measure. Will report whatever the outcome is.

here is the video that helped me diagnose the issue, the grinding sound was the exact same one I had. 

 

[Mr Vlad]

Blimey. You're not the first one to have the dust shield rub against the disc. So ruddy obvious and we All forget that one lol. Nice one Bilal 👍 

[McShmoopy]

Car came back from Lexus, no issues with the brakes from what they could tell aside from a calliper bolt I forgot to put back on! 
They recommended changing the brake discs out and getting anti squeal shims for the front brakes which appear to be missing, I assume the last garage who did my MOT may have misplaced them but despite all the hassle my diy brake maintenance was a success. 

Want to thank everyone who chimed know and provided some help, I feel quite confident looking at my brakes and I’ll be keeping an eye on those callipers to ensure they don’t seize up!!

[Mr Vlad]

Great news Bilal. Tut tut though forgetting a caliper bolt? Didn't that produce a problem when driving?

[McShmoopy]

Just now, Mr Vlad said:

Great news Bilal. Tut tut though forgetting a caliper bolt? Didn't that produce a problem when driving?

Slight knocking noise but brakes seemed to work fine, I put that down to all the tools and what not in my car haha. Thanks Vlad!