NX 450h+ electric and petrol range

[Alan Thompson]

There's been some comment on here about the cost of electric now being greater than petrol, but I can't agree.

Please tell me if I'm wrong

If a kwh of leccy costs me 33.029p (octopus current rate) and the car shows 3.1 miles per kwh, then each mile costs me 10.65p. Petrol is around £1.60 per litre (around £7.25 per gallon). I would have to achieve over 68 mpg running on petrol hybrid only to be worse off.

I've not included any of the daily standing charge as I would have to pay that even if I didn't have a PHEV.

I suppose the argument was being made before the Government intervention where the petrol mpg would have to be around 45 mpg and again, for my mix of driving which is mainly in and out of Leeds, Wakefield & Bradford I think that would still be marginal.

[RXtoNX]

12 hours ago, Alan Thompson said:

There's been some comment on here about the cost of electric now being greater than petrol, but I can't agree.

Wasn’t the comment more about the cost of charging whilst on the road being as much as the cost of petrol or greater?
 

I don’t think commercial charging points have a rate which differentiates between night & day so, unless you’re staying somewhere overnight or are prepared to wait around for 2.5 hours, it’s a mute point anyway.

[Ken R]

Sixth refuelling since I took delivery and mileage now 6200. Latest overall consumption after converting the cost of electric recharges is now 52.91mpg (best achieved 64.22mpg) This is the poorest recorded to date but not surprising as this covers longer journeys using the ICE coupled with colder temperatures affecting EV range. Still very happy as this figure is still 30% better than fuel consumption in my previous NX300h.

[rexleonis]

I'm sure it has been asked and answered plenty of times before but... If 450h+ is never charged, does the system behave like a normal hybrid in 350h? You can just drive it like a normal Lexus hybrid and the consumption will not sky rocket?

[Ken R]

7 hours ago, rexleonis said:

I'm sure it has been asked and answered plenty of times before but... If 450h+ is never charged, does the system behave like a normal hybrid in 350h? You can just drive it like a normal Lexus hybrid and the consumption will not sky rocket?

Basically yes. I was away from home for 5 days last month covering a few hundred miles and didn't charge my 450h+. Reckon that I was getting c50mpg.

[rexleonis]

That's fantastic. I've heard not long time ago that Lexus is unique in this as other manufacturers' hybrid systems don't work like this. For example Evoque plug-in hybrid, if you don't charge it, the car won't charge itself. It will use only the petrol engine to the detriment of the fuel consumption. 

[Ken R]

You can put the NX450h+ into recharge mode however when you do this the car feels entirely different! Engine noise level increases noticeably, performance drops off to the point of feeling sluggish ( strangely the car feels heavy!)and obviously fuel consumption sufferers. My experience indicates fuel consumption in the low 30's in this mode but on the positive side I gained c6 miles of ev charge in a 13 mile journey.

[rexleonis]

Didn't know about this mode... Just to make it clear, you don't have to use it, right? If you don't use it, the 450h+ behaves like a normal 350h, correct?

[Harrier Man]

6 hours ago, rexleonis said:

Didn't know about this mode... Just to make it clear, you don't have to use it, right? If you don't use it, the 450h+ behaves like a normal 350h, correct?

No you don't have to use it. I've tried it a couple of times but not generally worth for the reasons given by Ken. Car behaves like a normal hybrid. Don't expect that it will put any significant range in the Battery, as the dedicated recharge mode does, when I watch the graphic the very clever system is constantly switching between between engine and Battery mode (if the ICE isn't switched in to provide heat on a very cold day). During deceleration, down hills and braking, juice flows into the Battery, which then becomes the preferred source of power when accelerating or driving at constant speed. When the Battery reaches it's minimum level, the ICE will take over until the next time.

The only substantial improvement I can imagine is if the car's choice of Battery or ICE was influenced by a planned route being executed. Save the Battery for the towns and roads where lots of speed changes are likely to occur and using the ICE for motorways, dual carriageways and A roads where speed is relatively high and consistent. I do this manually but it would be great if the car did it automatically when executing a route. I think I read that this is available in the USA (or in parts of the USA).

[Harrier Man]

On 11/19/2022 at 5:20 PM, Ken R said:

Sixth refuelling since I took delivery and mileage now 6200. Latest overall consumption after converting the cost of electric recharges is now 52.91mpg (best achieved 64.22mpg) This is the poorest recorded to date but not surprising as this covers longer journeys using the ICE coupled with colder temperatures affecting EV range. Still very happy as this figure is still 30% better than fuel consumption in my previous NX300h.

How are you calculating this Ken? My first attempt gave me 56mpg but I suspect this has more to do with my suspect calculation than any material difference between the 2 cars.

[Ken R]

I simply take the cost of all electricity consumed recharging the Battery between petrol refills and convert this total into what this would have purchased in terms of gallons of fuel. Then take the mileage between refuelling and divide this "total" of gallons into the mileage etc.

Ignoring the cost of electricity my fuel consumption has ranged from a low of 82mpg to a high of 146.27mpg.

[Harrier Man]

2 hours ago, Ken R said:

I simply take the cost of all electricity consumed recharging the battery between petrol refills and convert this total into what this would have purchased in terms of gallons of fuel. Then take the mileage between refuelling and divide this "total" of gallons into the mileage etc.

Ignoring the cost of electricity my fuel consumption has ranged from a low of 82mpg to a high of 146.27mpg.

Thanks Ken. Over 3,600 miles, I have averaged just under 80mpg considering the petrol alone. I've struggled when factoring in the electricity because I have paid everything from 0 pence/unit to 90p/unit (I wasn't paying attention!). Neither do I have a smart meter at home so can only estimate the cost of charging based on the estimated range provided by the app at the start and end of each charge (when I remember to look). A further, minor, complication is that sometimes I fill up at the supermarket and sometimes spend an extra 18p/litre to treat my car to a tank of Esso E5 Super fuel. Hence, my average price of petrol is not truly representative.

Whilst all this is of academic interest to me, it doesn't really matter because I just love my NX!

[Ken R]

Fortunately I have a smart meter and also took advantage of the free power at Tesco while it was available. In both instances the apps record the KwH consumed hence my accuracy. I kept a record of brim to brim fuelling with my previous NX300h from new and overall achieved over 40mpg in 4 years. The NX450h is proving to be more economical. 

I too am delighted with my NX450H+.

[RXtoNX]

Over 2980 miles my average is 61mpg using the same criteria as Ken.

However, as mentioned by Malcolm, it is only really for the interest of myself since in trying to compare with other there are 2 other important factors which requires being taken into consideration.
These being average cost per KWh for electric only miles and the % of mileage completed in petrol mode only.

[The_Doctor]

How are people finding EV range now the temperatures are dropping, I've slowly dropped back to ~ 55 miles indicated range after a charge.

Also I had an odd experience this morning, I set out for a 4 mile journey (mixture of roads and speeds) with 9 miles range showing on departure but the engine kicked in and only 40% of the journey was in EV. The car was in "EV mode" the whole time and ambient temperature around 6˚. Anyone else experienced this?

[Alan Thompson]

22 minutes ago, The_Doctor said:

How are people finding EV range now the temperatures are dropping, I've slowly dropped back to ~ 55 miles indicated range after a charge.

Also I had an odd experience this morning, I set out for a 4 mile journey (mixture of roads and speeds) with 9 miles range showing on departure but the engine kicked in and only 40% of the journey was in EV. The car was in "EV mode" the whole time and ambient temperature around 6˚. Anyone else experienced this?

Mine has dropped from an indicated 53 to 51 and I expect it to drop further as the temperature drops.

As for the engine kicking in, it has happened to me too. I think this again depends on ambient temp as well as the load on the Battery. So, if you've got the heating on, the rear windscreen, radio etc, the engine decides to help. I've not read the manual, but on my old Outlander PHEV this happened too, but you could stop it from happening by starting in ECO mode. As I say, I don't know if this is the case with the NX, I've not tried it.

[The_Doctor]

27 minutes ago, Alan Thompson said:

Mine has dropped from an indicated 53 to 51 and I expect it to drop further as the temperature drops.

As for the engine kicking in, it has happened to me too. I think this again depends on ambient temp as well as the load on the battery. So, if you've got the heating on, the rear windscreen, radio etc, the engine decides to help. I've not read the manual, but on my old Outlander PHEV this happened too, but you could stop it from happening by starting in ECO mode. As I say, I don't know if this is the case with the NX, I've not tried it.

I suspected it is to do with the heating, I assume there is only "so much" the heat pump can do before ICE heat is needed. I've also found if you select front defog then it fires up the engine too. I will check the manual later ...

[Harrier Man]

3 hours ago, The_Doctor said:

How are people finding EV range now the temperatures are dropping, I've slowly dropped back to ~ 55 miles indicated range after a charge.

Also I had an odd experience this morning, I set out for a 4 mile journey (mixture of roads and speeds) with 9 miles range showing on departure but the engine kicked in and only 40% of the journey was in EV. The car was in "EV mode" the whole time and ambient temperature around 6˚. Anyone else experienced this?

Interesting. My range has always been around 45 miles. Not much change with colder weather except that the gap between with and without air conditioning has widened.

Engine does kick in, even in EV mode, if needed for heating or heavy acceleration up a hill for instance. It usually prefers to stay in ICE mode for a couple of miles or so before returning to EV mode. I'm happy that the car knows what it needs to do and that there are no faults.

[RXtoNX]

1 minute ago, Harrier Man said:

Interesting. My range has always been around 45 miles. Not much change with colder weather except that the gap between with and without air conditioning has widened.

 

^^^^This^^^^^, but what has changed is the actual mileage achieved in electric mode.
 

During Aug-Oct I was achieving 48 miles, being the same as the predicted EV range on the dash. During Nov it has reduced to around 38-40 miles for the same journeys.
My regular trips are not the best of journeys for economy with 10 miles being on dual carriageway with 4 busy roundabouts along the way. It has been the poorest sector for returning any decent mpg in all of my cars over the past 22 years😟

 

[Ken R]

9 hours ago, The_Doctor said:

How are people finding EV range now the temperatures are dropping, I've slowly dropped back to ~ 55 miles indicated range after a charge.

Also I had an odd experience this morning, I set out for a 4 mile journey (mixture of roads and speeds) with 9 miles range showing on departure but the engine kicked in and only 40% of the journey was in EV. The car was in "EV mode" the whole time and ambient temperature around 6˚. Anyone else experienced this?

Yes I am experiencing the same. I now get an indicated 44miles or 51 without air con. Has been as high as 52 with aircon in the summer. In summer the displayed range was more or less achievable but the last few weeks has seen the range dropping noticeably. Have also noticed the ICE kicking in more often.

[The_Doctor]

According to the manual, EV driving may be canceled automatically in the following circumstances:

• When vehicle speed is more than approximately 135 km/h (84 mph).
• When in AUTO EV/HV mode:
• When power is temporarily needed, such as when the accelerator pedal is fully depressed or when accelerating suddenly.
• When the temperature of the hybrid system is high, such as after the vehicle has been parked in an extremely hot environment, or is driven at high speeds or up a slope, etc.
• When the temperature of the hybrid system is low.
• When the heater is switched on when the outside temperature is below about -10° (14°F).
• When the windshield defogger switch is pressed.
• When the system determines that the gasoline engine needs to be started.

I reckon the last "catch all" case is what I experienced today ...

[Vira]

I am still expecting my 450h+ sometime next year. Howeve since winter weather is truly upon us these days, I was wondering what kind of EV only range the car is giving. Would be interesting to know owner's experience.

[Addh]

I did my first journey to work in this properly cold snap yesterday - about 6 miles urban and 12 miles on the motorway. In the summer I was getting about 45 miles of EV range so enough to get to work and back with a bit to spare, (keeping motorway speeds to below 70mph). When it started going cooler this dropped below 40 miles. Yesterday my EV range dropped to 0 with about 10 miles left to home so total EV was about 25 miles (in ECO mode) ! 

The overnight charge was 15.6kW which cost £5.30. The same distance on petrol at £1.60/litre and 40-45mpg would be £4.04-£4.54

Obviously affected by the cold Battery as well as having heating on etc.. This means it is now cheaper to use petrol for the first time since having the car in June. Luckily (hopefully) in most of the UK we don't get too many properly cold days !

[Harrier Man]

1 hour ago, Vira said:

I am still expecting my 450h+ sometime next year. Howeve since winter weather is truly upon us these days, I was wondering what kind of EV only range the car is giving. Would be interesting to know owner's experience.

For me, the predicted EV range hasn't changed much, it's still around 47 miles without A/C. What has changed is the predicted range with A/C; in the summer, it was very similar, around 45/46 from memory but now the predicted range with A/C is around 42-43 on a full charge. These estimates seem pretty accurate. I can get from home to work and back (29 mile round trip) with the app still showing 13 miles range remaining. I'm impressed with the accuracy (given the status of other app features) and the technology (that makes the difference between summer and winter as small as it is).

I don't think all manufacturers are as good. Out of curiosity, before ordering my NX, I asked the Ford dealer about their Kuga PHEV, "36 miles on a good day in summer mate, about 20 miles in winter" was his reply.

[Addh]

Malcolm, what was the lowest outside temperature you've had for charging/driving when getting this range and what type of roads/speeds. Have you had any seat/wheel heating on ? Seems like a big difference although I've only had 1 proper journey in these low temps to base it on.