Arm bushes for 2016 model to be replaced not even 50k miles done

[praveen2005]

Recent went for service and was not happy that front suspension and rear suspension bushes are debonded how can that happen in hardly so short period

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, praveen2005 said:

Recent went for service and was not happy that front suspension and rear suspension bushes are debonded how can that happen in hardly so short period

Good question! 

[cadman2k]

Mate of mines Audi Q5 Failed its first MOT on suspension bushes, only 25k on the clock and  just 3 year old. He's put it down to the weight of the vehicle and UK roads/potholes/speedbumps etc.

He seems to accept it as 'normal'..my view was won't it just happen again in another 3 years time?

Interesting to see if this is common on the NX

[praveen2005]

6 minutes ago, cadman2k said:

Mate of mines Audi Q5 Failed its first MOT on suspension bushes, only 25k on the clock and  just 3 year old. He's put it down to the weight of the vehicle and UK roads/potholes/speedbumps etc.

He seems to accept it as 'normal'..my view was won't it just happen again in another 3 years time?

Interesting to see if this is common on the NX

I am not happy as I was said I need to pay around 1300 for front and rear as I have no idea

[Don C]

A lot depends on how the car has been stood during its long periods of low mileage.  It also depends just how pedantic the mechanic is being.  You usually get a little video by the “tech” (posh name for a mechanic) showing the walk around and he usually prides himself on finding the slightest thing.  Bushes often delaminate slightly and are nothing to worry about.  Take it to a Lexus dealership and they’ll try to get it back to “as delivered new” using genuine parts.  Go to a reputable independent local garage and get a second opinion.  If they say it’s shot then you’ll have to accept the price of standing a luxury car.  Its just something that happens under certain conditions.  If you want Lexus to do it, don’t just roll over, negotiate.

[Phil xxkr]

2 hours ago, Don C said:

A lot depends on how the car has been stood during its long periods of low mileage.  It also depends just how pedantic the mechanic is being.  You usually get a little video by the “tech” (posh name for a mechanic) showing the walk around and he usually prides himself on finding the slightest thing.  Bushes often delaminate slightly and are nothing to worry about.  Take it to a Lexus dealership and they’ll try to get it back to “as delivered new” using genuine parts.  Go to a reputable independent local garage and get a second opinion.  If they say it’s shot then you’ll have to accept the price of standing a luxury car.  Its just something that happens under certain conditions.  If you want Lexus to do it, don’t just roll over, negotiate.

Very interesting first sentence Don, so what might be the variables? 

[Spock66]

On 2/19/2022 at 9:51 PM, praveen2005 said:

I am not happy as I was said I need to pay around 1300 for front and rear as I have no idea

Have you had an MOT if so was this a fail or advisory? - if neither I would ignore.

Also MOT advisories seem quite random, I have had wheel bearings with slight play advised so was expecting to replace them the following year, but somehow they miraculously fixed themselves.

[praveen2005]

On 2/19/2022 at 6:57 PM, praveen2005 said:

Recent went for service and was not happy that front suspension and rear suspension bushes are debonded how can that happen in hardly so short period

I am due for but want to see and I can see it is not under advisory it is on red

[true blue]

Hi as Andrew says an MOT will decide if this is a genuine problem or a generation of revenue item .By inspection on some bushes the ends you see do look as though they are peeling back slightly ,but it my not be a serious problem .If you do need an MOT and worry about having work done which may not be necessary my advice would be to use a council MOT centre, they normally do not do repairs so you will get an MOT that is not about finding work ,you will have to arrange rectification of problems at your own garage but at least you know it is genuine

Dave

[Phil xxkr]

4 hours ago, true blue said:

Hi as Andrew says an MOT will decide if this is a genuine problem or a generation of revenue item .By inspection on some bushes the ends you see do look as though they are peeling back slightly ,but it my not be a serious problem .If you do need an MOT and worry about having work done which may not be necessary my advice would be to use a council MOT centre, they normally do not do repairs so you will get an MOT that is not about finding work ,you will have to arrange rectification of problems at your own garage but at least you know it is genuine

Dave

Excellent advice Dave ☝️

[ColinBarber]

On 2/19/2022 at 9:44 PM, cadman2k said:

Mate of mines Audi Q5 Failed its first MOT on suspension bushes, only 25k on the clock and  just 3 year old. He's put it down to the weight of the vehicle and UK roads/potholes/speedbumps etc.

He seems to accept it as 'normal'..my view was won't it just happen again in another 3 years time?

Interesting to see if this is common on the NX

You would have a strong case for stating the car isn't fit for purpose if the suspension can only last 25k miles/3 years. Yes it's a big heavy car but the suspension should have been designed to accommodate those characteristics. Virtually impossible to prove on an individual case basis as it would very much depend on how it has been driven during those 3 years.

 

We haven't read about this particular issue with the NX before on these forums - hopefully it is an isolated issue, although not a great consolation for Praveen. But we are getting to point where common age and mileage related issues with the early NX vehicles will start to appear.

[Don C]

18 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Very interesting first sentence Don, so what might be the variables? 

If it’s been stood in a dry garage or outside in damp conditions, if it lives near the coast or a place where they use a lot of salt, if it lives in a rural area where the underside gets coated in mud or animal crap.  Just standing for long periods instead of being used.  
I’ve changed dozens of bottom arms and bushes and they’ll generally last a very long time as long as they don’t start to corrode.  As soon as they corrode, the bond starts to fail.  It can be superficial if it’s not too advanced but Lexus will always use “as new” as the standard.  

[Don C]

10 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

You would have a strong case for stating the car isn't fit for purpose if the suspension can only last 25k miles/3 years. Yes it's a big heavy car but the suspension should have been designed to accommodate those characteristics. Virtually impossible to prove on an individual case basis as it would very much depend on how it has been driven during those 3 years.

 

We haven't read about this particular issue with the NX before on these forums - hopefully it is an isolated issue, although not a great consolation for Praveen. But we are getting to point where common age and mileage related issues with the early NX vehicles will start to appear.

Not wishing to contradict but I doubt you’d ever bring a case of not fit for purpose if the suspension bushes go at three years.  You might identify an engineering design flaw if every Q5 suffered a similar fault but that would at best lead to some sort of recall or warranty campaign.  

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, Don C said:

Not wishing to contradict but I doubt you’d ever bring a case of not fit for purpose if the suspension bushes go at three years.  You might identify an engineering design flaw if every Q5 suffered a similar fault but that would at best lead to some sort of recall or warranty campaign.  

But here Don we are speaking of an individual case. So if the car was supplied and serviced to schedule then the garage must bear some culpability? I assume the failure didn't occur overnight therefore was apparent prior to 25k/3 years making the case for "not fit for purpose" even stronger. 

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, Don C said:

If it’s been stood in a dry garage or outside in damp conditions, if it lives near the coast or a place where they use a lot of salt, if it lives in a rural area where the underside gets coated in mud or animal crap.  Just standing for long periods instead of being used.  
I’ve changed dozens of bottom arms and bushes and they’ll generally last a very long time as long as they don’t start to corrode.  As soon as they corrode, the bond starts to fail.  It can be superficial if it’s not too advanced but Lexus will always use “as new” as the standard.  

Thanks Don, don't quite grasp your first sentence, how else can a car be stood? And I can't quite reconcile "they last a very long time" with "I've changed dozens". 🤔. I generally understand the chemistry of  material corrosion and it made me ask myself the question; knowing these components are liable to fail, presumably across all brands, and being a crucial part of the cars geometry why no alternative? Answers on a postcard please to, I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue 😎

[08ISF]

On 2/19/2022 at 6:57 PM, praveen2005 said:

Recent went for service and was not happy that front suspension and rear suspension bushes are debonded how can that happen in hardly so short period

You need to get a second opinion. In my experience Lexus go over the top on their condition reports. Whether this is inexperience on the part of their techs or a desire to up the income that month I couldn't comment. I have had occasion to speak sharply to them in the past about  allegations of work needed, which I don't agree with. It is interesting that rubber components in the suspension are I understand excluded from the Relax warranty so either they know something we don't or this type of work is going to become a new income stream for the dealers! I'm not cynical just experienced!

[Malc]

wonder if you can just get a pre ?? MOT at a Council MOT station ...  I'd never heard of Council MOT stations before tbh

BUT that sounds a good idea .....  might be the other garages  advising you are just taking the peeeeee

Malc

[Don C]

TBH, I wouldn’t worry about it unless it comes up on MOT.

[Don C]

14 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Thanks Don, don't quite grasp your first sentence, how else can a car be stood? And I can't quite reconcile "they last a very long time" with "I've changed dozens". 🤔. I generally understand the chemistry of  material corrosion and it made me ask myself the question; knowing these components are liable to fail, presumably across all brands, and being a crucial part of the cars geometry why no alternative? Answers on a postcard please to, I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue 😎

My comment refers to the difference to how components corrode when parked outside in all weathers compared to in a dry garage.  It’s further exacerbated by low mileage - cars don’t fair well stood around and quickly deteriorate.  If you look under a car that has been stood in a dealership for a month or so pending sale, they are often showing quite advanced surface rust but once they are used, the corrosion is quickly eroded away purely by the elements rushing past.  Most cars use similar “metalastic” components in the suspension.  They assist the springs by twisting under torsion and return to a neutral position.  They are painted but when corrosion sets in, the rubber starts to separate from the steel and if the rubber fails they collapse. You could possibly devise an alternative at a price but they give a reasonable service life.  I have changed dozens for the above  reasons but they usually fail after several years or high mileage.  However, they will fail prematurely if the corrosion sets in and that is like I said, after periods of no use or climatic conditions, salt etc.  

[Don C]

14 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

But here Don we are speaking of an individual case. So if the car was supplied and serviced to schedule then the garage must bear some culpability? I assume the failure didn't occur overnight therefore was apparent prior to 25k/3 years making the case for "not fit for purpose" even stronger. 

The lower arms and bushes are not serviceable items.  You can often change the lower ball joint but the metalastic bushes are the non-serviceable parts.  The servicing garage can only be culpable for not spotting any defect but not the failure of them.  It’s a while since I studied motor vehicle law but there was a clear distinction between fit for purpose and what I would consider more appropriately merchantable quality.  Fit for purpose means does it function as a car - yes, merchantable quality means is the product and all its parts up to the job.  I think a judge would consider whether other vehicles of the same type were suspect and how the car had been used.  Audi would argue that the parts had only failed due to the operating conditions.  So would Lexus.  We’re assuming these parts are shot but without seeing them and the report, I’m. not convinced.  There’s a difference between parts showing signs of deterioration and here is the price to replace them and parts that are deemed unserviceable.  
 

EDIT when I say non serviceable, you can sometimes change the whole metalistic bush but that is a bonded assembly.  

[true blue]

Hi Malcolm ,I don't think council MOT centres do the pre check ;If you google 'money saving expert cheap MOT ' the article explains council sites and gives details among other relevant information

Dave