When to Charge the 450h+ PHEV

[isleaiw]

39 minutes ago, ABitterman said:

I think the plug-in variant is only worth the extra cost if it's a company vehicle. The 450h PHEV is actually less expensive than the 350h overall as its BIK is 7% of the total value of the car as opposed to the 350h at 32%. Guess there are a lot of company car drivers going around in PHEVS and never actually charging them up!

I guess that depends what you want. If I buy an NX it will be the PHEV. I've had my fill of fast and noisy cars but coming from a 450hp estate (itself following a 600hp saloon) I dont want to lose too much performance in the search for comfort and refinement. I'd go full electric but I'm not quite ready for that as many of my journeys are 300 miles across a weekend. It will be nice to be able to use the EV for local commuting, whilst having an ICE for long journeys. 

Son in Law is getting an i4 M50 so I'll see how he gets on with range before I go full electric..... 

[Bish1402]

19 minutes ago, Lexux said:

Point is, it did happen!

 

I hope the following link works as the site contains a lot of good information about 3 pin chargers. Note the advice about taking care

 

Safely Charging your Electric Vehicle Using a Granny Charger – Tough Leads

 

I would still like an apology from  @Bish1402, or are some people just not prepared to admit that they may be wrong.

Oh Wow, calm down .... Apologies sent... You can relax now. 

I was simply stating my own personal experience with using a 3 pin plug on a PHEV over many years

 

An electric plug will fail if faulty if you use it for a phev, freezer or even a jet wash. 

 

Take care everyone. 

[hockeyedwards]

1 hour ago, Guest said:

I would still like an apology from  @Bish1402, or are some people just not prepared to admit that they may be wrong.

Keep your toys in the pram mate, keyboard warriors don't fair very well in this forum.

Do you agree that there is a possibility that you could experience no problems using a 3-pin plug?

ADMIT IT ALREADY. 🤷‍♂️😆

[zanderblue]

I’m in the very early stage if 450h+ ownership. As far as I can figure, home charging is probably going to be the most economical. I’m on an economy 10 tariff and am paying around 17p per KWh on the cheap tariff and 20p on the standard. 
I’ve been able to take advantage of the free wall box offer which will help wrt the duration if the charging, but I don’t see it as that big a deal to use the 3 prong plug, albeit charge times will probably be close to double that if the wall box.

I don’t have enough experience to figure out the costs of charging via the petrol engine just yet. I did a 70 mile run today and was in charge mode and it took all of that to charge from 10% to 90%. But I’m not sure how to put a value on that since I had to make the run anyway and the charging was a side benefit.

[NemesisUK]

2 minutes ago, zanderblue said:

But I’m not sure how to put a value on that since I had to make the run anyway and the charging was a side benefit.

"You don't get owt for nowt"

Charging the Battery puts a load on the engine which requires fuel to overcome. Yes, there will be a portion recovered from the regenerative braking though

[Ken R]

4 hours ago, zanderblue said:

I’m in the very early stage if 450h+ ownership. As far as I can figure, home charging is probably going to be the most economical. I’m on an economy 10 tariff and am paying around 17p per KWh on the cheap tariff and 20p on the standard. 
I’ve been able to take advantage of the free wall box offer which will help wrt the duration if the charging, but I don’t see it as that big a deal to use the 3 prong plug, albeit charge times will probably be close to double that if the wall box.

I don’t have enough experience to figure out the costs of charging via the petrol engine just yet. I did a 70 mile run today and was in charge mode and it took all of that to charge from 10% to 90%. But I’m not sure how to put a value on that since I had to make the run anyway and the charging was a side benefit.

When on a test drive this week I was pleasantly surprised by the speed that the Battery recharged when in auto mode. 

[zanderblue]

6 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

"You don't get owt for nowt"

Charging the battery puts a load on the engine which requires fuel to overcome. Yes, there will be a portion recovered from the regenerative braking though

That’s what I meant. How do you calculate the incremental petrol usage when charging.

[ABitterman]

This is my point, would you always charge the Battery via the engine when you are on a long distance run and you know the Battery will be depleted way before you can plug it in at home. 

[ColinBarber]

Using 3-pin plugs to charge needs to be done with care. The charger will already be limited to 10 Amps as the 3 pin plug/socket cannot cope at 13 Amps for an extended period of time, but even then it is worth checking the temperature of the plug/socket after a couple of hours charging to make sure excessive heat isn't being generated - and ideally you could check all the other sockets on the same ring main as the circuit will loop through them and any poor connection will generate heat. You certainly shouldn't be using extension leads if you can avoid it, and if you do only use ones that have 1.5 mm2 flex.

If you are experiencing heat issues, then you should get a sparky in to fix the issue and/or lower the current (if the Lexus charger/vehicle allows) down to 6 Amps.

 

1 hour ago, ABitterman said:

This is my point, would you always charge the battery via the engine when you are on a long distance run and you know the battery will be depleted way before you can plug it in at home. 

I wouldn't unless you have a specific desire to run in EV mode at some point. More efficient to use the fully charged Battery during the trip, switch to normal hybrid mode once depleted, and then charge back up again when at home.

I guess if you know you will be stuck in stop/start traffic at some point on the journey it might be good to charge up the Battery beforehand so you can switch to EV mode when in traffic - as that will make that part more relaxed.

[ABitterman]

Wonder why they include an internal charger in the car if the amount of fuel to use it outweighs the benefit of having a full Battery? That must be a significant weight and cost penalty for very little return. 

[NemesisUK]

It gives greater flexibility in use and allows the car to operate as a 'self-charging' hybrid such as all the other hybrid models in the Lexus range

[Phil xxkr]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:50 AM, ABitterman said:

I’ve ordered the plug in NX and wondered what the most efficient way of using it is. I’m guessing putting it on charge at home every night but as no doubt I’ve missed the boat on the Lexus offer of a free charger so I’d have to spend around £1,000 on a home charger just for 40 miles a day. How much more does it cost in fuel to let the engine charge up the battery or would I be better off using a commercial charging station. Went plug in because of the BIK but would like to run it in the most economical way. Cheers. 

Hope you noticed this? Article on people getting tickets in all sorts of places such as McDonald's, apparently signs specifying max times have not been updated. 

Some of the penalties issued have been for as much as £120 at certain service stations and public car parks.

And the owners argue that the current time allotted for parking in the spaces doesn’t allow for a full charge of electricity for their vehicles.

One owner, James Warren from Birmingham told The Times: "I found somewhere to charge in a hotel car park [in Weybridge]. It took around 45 minutes, then I paid on my app.

"I was aghast to receive an £80 fine from Parkingeye, saying I had parked in the hotel's car park without permission.”

[NemesisUK]

3 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

One owner, James Warren from Birmingham told The Times: "I found somewhere to charge in a hotel car park [in Weybridge]. It took around 45 minutes, then I paid on my app.

"I was aghast to receive an £80 fine from Parkingeye, saying I had parked in the hotel's car park without permission.”

Could it be the car park and the charge point are there for the use of hotel customers, not the general  public?

[Phil xxkr]

2 hours ago, NemesisUK said:

Could it be the car park and the charge point are there for the use of hotel customers, not the general  public?

That may well be the case in that specific instance however the article spoke of this happening all over so more of a general comment 

[ABitterman]

Has anyone done the calculation on many extra litres of fuel the engine would use if it were to charge the 18kw Battery whilst driving at 60-70 mph?

if it’s a 6kw charger then it’d only take it 2.5hrs to charge wouldn’t it?

[isleaiw]

So having spent best part of £50k on a car we are worrying about the cheapest way to charge it up..... if you want to save money, maybe buy a cheaper car? 

[forbes]

8 minutes ago, isleaiw said:

So having spent best part of £50k on a car we are worrying about the cheapest way to charge it up..... if you want to save money, maybe buy a cheaper car? 

I will probably get a ban for this but well said Ian. And they even complain about the Free charger/grant. But I suppose they think the are saving the planet. I fill my UX250h with petrol and I know I will get roughly 400 mile till I need to fill up again. No plugging in umpteen times a day/week. Yes I have had a NX300h then downsized to the UX250h now I up upsizing to a RAV4 HEV

 

 

 

[Al D-Much]

37 minutes ago, forbes said:

I will probably get a ban for this but well said Ian. And they even complain about the Free charger/grant. But I suppose they think the are saving the planet. I fill my UX250h with petrol and I know I will get roughly 400 mile till I need to fill up again. No plugging in umpteen times a day/week. Yes I have had a NX300h then downsized to the UX250h now I up upsizing to a RAV4 HEV

I'm with you on that one. NX300h, or the new 350h, fill up and F-off. none of this faff looking for a plug socket when on your travels

 

 

 

[isleaiw]

12 hours ago, forbes said:

I will probably get a ban for this but well said Ian. And they even complain about the Free charger/grant. But I suppose they think the are saving the planet. I fill my UX250h with petrol and I know I will get roughly 400 mile till I need to fill up again. No plugging in umpteen times a day/week. Yes I have had a NX300h then downsized to the UX250h now I up upsizing to a RAV4 HEV

 

 

I get running electric and trying to improve air pollution in cities and towns etc, that is why I would be interested, but having spent that much I'm not sure I can be bothered to try and save a few pence on charging method. Lets be honest, anything will be cheaper than the sub 20 mpg I get round town now!

[ABitterman]

13 hours ago, isleaiw said:

So having spent best part of £50k on a car we are worrying about the cheapest way to charge it up..... if you want to save money, maybe buy a cheaper car? 

I wasn’t asking for financial advise, this is a forum for discussing the various aspects of the cars. If you can’t answer the question, just ignore it and move on don’t suggest to me, as I’ve spent almost £60k on a hybrid car, I shouldn’t be interested in using it in the most economical way.

[isleaiw]

20 minutes ago, ABitterman said:

I wasn’t asking for financial advise, this is a forum for discussing the various aspects of the cars. If you can’t answer the question, just ignore it and move on don’t suggest to me, as I’ve spent almost £60k on a hybrid car, I shouldn’t be interested in using it in the most economical way.

Fill your boots, I'd suggest the cheapest way is not to drive it at all ... 😉

Its a public forum, unfortunately you cant control what responses you get, but the short answer is the cheapest way to charge is overnight on an EV tariff. I'd assume that if you set the sat nav for your destination, the car will decide the best way to deploy the Battery power during that journey. Wont it?

Anyway, enjoy the car. 

[Phil xxkr]

36 minutes ago, ABitterman said:

I wasn’t asking for financial advise, this is a forum for discussing the various aspects of the cars. If you can’t answer the question, just ignore it and move on don’t suggest to me, as I’ve spent almost £60k on a hybrid car, I shouldn’t be interested in using it in the most economical way.

Not that us Phil's should stick together but I think you raise an entirely legitimate point. If as a previous poster noted "I get running electric and trying to improve air pollution in cities and towns etc" then by default you must seek out the best combination of inputs to get optimal outputs ergo less pollution etc etc. But I am more bemused by the contention that if you can afford £60k that money should not be a consideration, presumably that also applies to, insurance and the cost of financing £60k be that own money or third party. As I am not in a position to splash out such a sum, if only, I am not envious of others who can. Rather the opposite, if we didn't have people like you there wouldn't be a company devoted to the pursuit of excellence. 😎

[Caspa]

I'm just gonna charge at home overnight.

All my local travel can be done within EV range and as it's a PHEV no need to search out a charger on longer travels as it'll just switch to hybrid mode. 

That's why I've gone PHEV and not EV. 

[zanderblue]

Some early experience of running and charging of my 450h+………..

I’ve done ~300 miles since owning the car. This has been predominantly out of town driving. I’d say 85% out of town to 15% in town. In that time I’ve used less than half a tank of petrol. But I have been charging at home on off peak electric using the 3 prong plug. It takes about 4 hours to go from ~60% to 100% charge, which fits in nicely with my off peak timings.

It has taken me a few trips to understand the EV/HV functionality. Basically, the car runs in EV until Battery level drops to about 25%, it then flips to HV and alternates between petrol to drive and charge the Battery and will seamlessly flip backwards and forwards between the two subject to demand. The Battery charge stays around the 25% in this mode. I have once forced it into charge mode and I seem to recall it took the best part of 70 miles in petrol mode to fully charge.

My typical driving is 90% in town, so I’d expect less petrol usage going forward. I haven’t yet figured out electric charging costs, I guess that is my next step. I am also due to get the free EV charger installed and I imagine that will provide additional flexibility.

Overall I am very pleased with the car, but I do have a couple of niggles. Our profiles won’t stay loaded in the system, I can’t register the multimedia system (needed for map updates,etc), I keep getting spurious door left open alerts and there is an annoying tapping noise caused by seatbelt bouncing on trim at bottom anchor point.

Happy to answer any queries if needed.

TC

 

[ABitterman]

Zanderblue, thank you for such a clear explanation. As far as costs to charge at home. I don’t have Economy 7, so pay 17.8p per kw. The Battery is 18.1kw so I reckon it will cost me 18.1x17.8= £3.22 to charge fully. 
 

The calculation I was looking for was how much it cost to charge the Battery whilst driving. You say it took 70 miles to get it fully charged, guess we just need to know the impact on mpg to see what that cost would be.